Statue of Robert E. Lee and other confederate symbols

[old goat]

Just saying. To some, a painted can of Campbell's soup is art. To others, graffiti. Very subjective thing, which brings this thread full circle

But "what is art" is good for at least 100 pages. I think Aristotle alone wrote at least 100 pages on the subject. I know because I had to read them in HS. Not sure why. I still don't think a soup can is art.

[muted]

Just saying. To some, a painted can of Campbell's soup is art. To others, graffiti. Very subjective thing, which brings this thread full circle

It does not bring it full circle IMO. Why do you think it brings it full circle though? I haven't seen in your thousands of posts ever bringing any ideas to the table, just 'feelings' based on ?

Also, why is the painted can graffiti? It's pop art. What do you think graffiti is?

[old goat]

Also, why is the painted can graffiti? It's pop art. What do you think graffiti is?

Will this be on the test?

[Meadow Skipper]

The twitter person put it pretty good:

https://twitter.com/ellle_em/status/1275045264584314881

"Look I have a graduate degree in history and I can tell you statues are not history. Statues are mythology. Statues are hagiography. If you care about history as a discipline, as a way of analyzing the past, tear down every single statue.

Somehow, the history of Nazi Germany is available without statues of Hitler in every German square.

We can somehow still access the history of Mussolini's rule without having statues of him in Rome

We know about Ceaușescu without his stone visage glaring out over Bucharest

Statues tell us about how we understand the present, not the reality of the past. Statues teach us nothing but who we find worth elevating into godhood. Statues are about the lies with think are worth believing in. Statues aren't history

this

+1

Fuck statues. And Mt. Rushmore too.

[schindlerpiste]

It does not bring it full circle IMO. Why do you think it brings it full circle though? I haven't seen in your thousands of posts ever bringing any ideas to the table, just 'feelings' based on ?

Also, why is the painted can graffiti? It's pop art. What do you think graffiti is?

Do you comprehend what you read? When did I state that a can of soup was graffiti? If my ideas don't bring anything to your table, oh well. NOT MY FAULT.
Full Circle: 1st post asks about potential value. These monstrosities can have value in three ways: 1) raw materials; 2) artistic; and three sentimental. The thread took several turns. Accusations were levied, opinions were given, preferences were stated. Facts were stated and misstated. It immediately got off track. Then, Carl asserts that statues are not history. However, they were made, in this case, for racist reasons, no doubt, but made nonetheless. This begs the question, for some statues, at least, whether they could be considered art (such as the TR statue), which is very subjective, and open to loose construction,...to anyone. Certainly, to the sculpture they were. Thus, with art as a possible (albeit unlikely) motive, it brings us back to value. I know this is tough for fragile minds. I'm sorry if you don't understand what I was questioning and/or stating (as in the case of questionable things that are considered art).

[Mr. Mike]

I was trying to point out, that people and your elected officials had all the power to remove them all along. I said it earlier, like Nascar banning the confederate flag, I am not going to give credit to something that was decades out of favor. You shouldn't have give someone a pat on the back for doing the right thing. Holding elected officials accountable regardless of political party is what needs to be done.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion on your point, but I am as well. And I think your point was motivated by the fact that you are one of those southerners who has always voted for the Rs and so you are looking for any justification you can to keep doing that despite the fact that, in the south in particular, the Rs have become more and more out of step with the middle ground on race relations. I don't know you, so I'm certainly not calling you out as racist. As a matter of fact, I think you likely are not, but you are becoming uncomfortable with the fact that the republicans, especially in our part of the country, mines that vein, and you don't like it because you identify with the party but you are uncomfortable with that approach. So, you resort to "whatabout 20 years ago when the democrats had more power and therefore could have pushed for the Nathan Bedford Forrrest bust (which was installed in 1978) to have been removed" rather than saying "let's get rid of that racist bullshit right now and if we don't let's blame the people who are resisting it right now".

Here's the question I have sometimes asked some of my close friends when we have these discussions: Have you voted for candidates for both parties for President or senator? I've voted in every election since 1984 and the answer is yes to both of those. When I ask that question of my friends and the answer is no, my response is that we aren't really having a meaningful discussion because you will always find some justification to do what you are going to do. So, I'll ask you that question.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

the middle ground on race relations

Please explain what this means.

[TBS]

^^^yes, inquiring minds want to know

[neufox47]

Please explain what this means.

I’m guessing he means the R’s are out of step with how the majority feel about racism in this country.

[SB]

I luv how wokey woke y’all r.

[buttahflake]

Fuck off Scotty, you fucking cunt

[Core Shot]

Fuck off Scotty, you fucking cunt

Do have a crayon to Mark the side of your crib every time you post that?
Like a gunfighter notching his belt

Do you actually type it out or do you have a macro?

[schindlerpiste]

What about the attempted destruction of the President Jackson statue in Lafayette park? We all know that he owned slaves, but he is generally considered one of the most influential POTUS ever. Next, Mount Vernon, along with Washington's wooden teeth will be burned and all statues of every POTUS from 1776-1965 will be destroyed.

My German wife asked why are protestor's allowed to randomly destroy statues in this country? Isn't this something that should be left to the legislature? My response was that sometimes the legislature practices racism and protestors like to disregard the law and take matters into their own hands.

[ex-powderbroker]

What about the attempted destruction of the President Jackson statue in Lafayette park? We all know that he owned slaves, but he is generally considered one of the most influential POTUS ever. Next, Mount Vernon, along with Washington's wooden teeth will be burned and all statues of every POTUS from 1776-1965 will be destroyed.

My German wife asked why are protestor's allowed to randomly destroy statues in this country? Isn't this something that should be left to the legislature? My response was that sometimes the legislature practices racism and protestors like to disregard the law and take matters into their own hands.

Ok, your wife is descended from a bunch of law abiding germans that didn’t do anything during the Holocaust since it was legal. She has a lot in common with some Americans!

[schindlerpiste]

Careful boss, you are very close to showing just how prejudice, stereotypical and racist you actually are.

[ncskier]

Well, you are entitled to your opinion on your point, but I am as well. And I think your point was motivated by the fact that you are one of those southerners who has always voted for the Rs and so you are looking for any justification you can to keep doing that despite the fact that, in the south in particular, the Rs have become more and more out of step with the middle ground on race relations. I don't know you, so I'm certainly not calling you out as racist. As a matter of fact, I think you likely are not, but you are becoming uncomfortable with the fact that the republicans, especially in our part of the country, mines that vein, and you don't like it because you identify with the party but you are uncomfortable with that approach. So, you resort to "whatabout 20 years ago when the democrats had more power and therefore could have pushed for the Nathan Bedford Forrrest bust (which was installed in 1978) to have been removed" rather than saying "let's get rid of that racist bullshit right now and if we don't let's blame the people who are resisting it right now".

Here's the question I have sometimes asked some of my close friends when we have these discussions: Have you voted for candidates for both parties for President or senator? I've voted in every election since 1984 and the answer is yes to both of those. When I ask that question of my friends and the answer is no, my response is that we aren't really having a meaningful discussion because you will always find some justification to do what you are going to do. So, I'll ask you that question.

I'll answer your question. Yes I have voted in every election since 1992 in NC and have voted for candidates of both parties many different times. I am a registered independent.
I am not resorting to whatabouts either. I stated very clearly, that the statues should come down. What I stated is that it should be done by our elected officials and not by "the people" at this point. It is dangerous to have folks tearing them down when professionals with cranes and such can carefully lift them out without toppling on people in a heated situation. You can take that however you want it to be, but my position is that the voters should remember who sat by in many cases for decades and keep that in mind when they vote.
I have never given a moral assignment based on a candidates affiliation.
Mayor Patrick Cannon a Democrat was arrested on corruption charges, Senator Richard Burr if seeking re-election would not get my vote after his crap of insider trading regarding the corona virus briefing.
Perhaps I am the outlier, but blindly pledging allegiance is not my thing at this point.

[Danno]

What about the attempted destruction of the President Jackson statue in Lafayette park? We all know that he owned slaves, but he is generally considered one of the most influential POTUS ever. Next, Mount Vernon, along with Washington's wooden teeth will be burned and all statues of every POTUS from 1776-1965 will be destroyed.

My German wife asked why are protestor's allowed to randomly destroy statues in this country? Isn't this something that should be left to the legislature? My response was that sometimes the legislature practices racism and protestors like to disregard the law and take matters into their own hands.

Uh, Jackson? If your history books tell you he was a great man, you need different history books (has nothing to do with slaves).

But again, the statues aren't history; very few of them have any historical significance on their own. Jackson himself is a part of history, and that won't change whether he has a statue up or not.

[Core Shot]

Native Americans should be tearing down the Jackson statues.

[schindlerpiste]

^^^^Truth. See Trial of Tears

[TBS]

What about the attempted destruction of the President Jackson statue in Lafayette park? We all know that he owned slaves, but he is generally considered one of the most influential POTUS ever. Next, Mount Vernon, along with Washington's wooden teeth will be burned and all statues of every POTUS from 1776-1965 will be destroyed.

My German wife asked why are protestor's allowed to randomly destroy statues in this country? Isn't this something that should be left to the legislature? My response was that sometimes the legislature practices racism and protestors like to disregard the law and take matters into their own hands.

It’s not just his slaveholding. Jackson was also responsible for starting The Trail of Tears. So I don’t think there are a lot of Amerindians who think highly of him either.

Influential, yes. Reprehensible, oh yea.

[wooley12]

Them most disgusting thing I'd ever seen. Toss in a racial slur of "Pocahontas "

[Core Shot]

^^^^^ dog whistler in chief

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

On the subject, I'm pretty surprised they haven't renamed Kit Carson Park in Taos. A name change has always been in the works but nobody can make it stick.

They better not move his grave though, the Native Americans won't have a place to piss while in the park.

[warthog]

Pretty excited for when the #woke liberals have to rename their alma mater.
Interesting times we live in.

https://scroll.in/magazine/829298/th...ersity-founder

[TNKen]

Them most disgusting thing I'd ever seen. Toss in a racial slur of "Pocahontas "

The most ironic thing about the image is the portrait of Andrew Jackson in the background. Take a read about the wars he waged on the Native Americans, the Treaty of Fort Jackson, the Creek War, the Indian Removal Act, etc.

And, BTW, Jackson was a Democrat.