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  1. #726
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncskier View Post
    Just like millions of people watched the president in front of a church without the prior video? That makes trump a brave hero, right?
    I think it sort of proves the point. Your opinion of Trump's photo op is very much going to depend on how you already perceive him. That's bias.

  2. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncskier View Post
    Just like millions of people watched the president in front of a church without the prior video? That makes trump a brave hero, right?
    I guess I shouldn't question what i see anymore. You have spoken. Everything on the internet is true.
    I merely pointed out I would save my rage for when I know the facts. Thats all.
    Except he didn't get charged with anything other than maybe being an "uppity negro" who didn't obey some unintelligible police order(s).

    We should all be able to get behind fuck the police on this one.

  3. #728
    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    To your original question about how does this still happen and in cities and states controlled by Democrats, a lot of the problem is at the federal level. The equipment and training provided is geared to militarism and escalation. Qualified immunity and the Supreme Court decisions on cops killing people make it almost impossible to successfully prosecute them. Really good piece on The Daily today about why these cops are almost impossible to reign in despite bad behavior.


    https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...35DD5koLON2lxs

    This DOJ archive has a ton of info on the prior investigations and binding agreements in areas that needed reform. The problems with that effort being its small funding relative to the size of the issue and its abrupt cancellation under Agent Orange. Legal reform along with a commitment to restart the special litigation reviews of PDs would go a long way towards addressing the justice deficit. It will take a generation to fix if it's pursued in good faith.

    https://www.justice.gov/crt/special-...tters/download

  4. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    Let's not start gay bashing now Buster.
    Means same shape. In greek. Is that Greek bashing? My apologies.
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  5. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncskier View Post
    Just like millions of people watched the president in front of a church without the prior video? That makes trump a brave hero, right?
    Likely if you're a Christian Trump supporter.
    I guess I shouldn't question what i see anymore. You have spoken. Everything on the internet is true.
    I merely pointed out I would save my rage for when I know the facts. Thats all.
    Go ahead, be trite, but don't ask a questions and then get all pissy if you don't like the answer.
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  6. #731
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    Kindness is a bridge between all people

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  7. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    Tensions are really high right now, I get it, but we have to try to find common ground and peace if anything positive is going to come of all this mayhem.

    Just my opinion.
    It's also a really good tie to recognize bigotry.

    FWIW, I still display it, I'm not free of it. And if anyone actually bothers to read, I haven't called anyone a bigot.
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  8. #733
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    Thanks Danno.

  9. #734
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deebased View Post
    Except he didn't get charged with anything other than maybe being an "uppity negro" who didn't obey some unintelligible police order(s).

    We should all be able to get behind fuck the police on this one.
    does anyone not read around here. All my posts said fuck the police. They were wrong 100%.

  10. #735
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    Police are supposed to be trained professionals, and there's a ton of evidence in the cities with violence of police instigating in broad daylight.
    Looks like a lot of cities need to go Camden style scorched earth of fire/rehire with stricter guidelines on use of force and recording.
    Like the Louisville example of a dude shot and no one with bodycams turned on. Give me a break, it's amateur bully hour.

  11. #736
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    It's also a really good tie to recognize bigotry.

    FWIW, I still display it, I'm not free of it. And if anyone actually bothers to read, I haven't called anyone a bigot.
    Buster, we are older white guys. I try and keep the bigotry in check, but it is still there from living in So Cal for 50 years. I am pretty much color blind, but definitely an economic bigot. But like I said, I try and check it all the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    I think you'd have an easier time understanding people if you remembered that 80% of them are fucking morons.
    That is why I like dogs, more than most people.

  12. #737
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    ncskier it didn't come across as bigoted to me, honestly. Don't beat yourself up or let them get you down. Yeah it might have been smart to google it or read the comments but whatever. To me you were just trying to understand and what we need is understanding.

    Buster, is the homotrophy of spheres illegal? All he was trying to say is that maybe (he was hopeful that) there was a reason for the arrest that's not evident from the video. Because the video sucks.

  13. #738
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncskier View Post
    Get it out of the way and call me a racist now, I don't want that to happen, but still seems to be what happens here.
    I want to ask an honest question that I am genuinely curious about. So please take the time to read my question and answer me intelligently. I am a reasonable person and can be spoken to like an adult.
    So everyone take a deep breath before you dox me and call me a pig take deep breadth and put your thinking caps on.
    Ok, I understand the concept of systemic racism and the decades and centuries where whites ruled with an iron fist. I also understand less obvious things like redlining and busing. I really do. Here is what confuses me.
    When I look at city police forces, in Democrat majority controlled cities, with people of color police chiefs and women, gay, people of color mayors, in progressive states with supposedly liberal governors, who exactly is allowing the police to be racist and target black people?

    I am going to give an example in Charlotte, Black woman mayor, 100% democrat city council, black police chief, less than 50% of the population is white. I look at the history of LA, Minneapolis, Houston Etc. its the same for decades. Bloomberg and liberal NY was home of stop and frisk.
    It's easy to say go vote, but from where I am sitting, I don't see how voting for democrat seems to do anything different than voting for a republican. If I could even vote in the city( I can't), would it be fashionable or even feasible to call out the current crop of politicians who happen to all be democrats in these cities?

    Are these police forces rogue? Can't the city councils and mayors who control the purse strings punish the cops who are bad. We vote for judges so I guess the majority minority(in most urban cities) are OK with their choices of judges, but who appoints prosecuters who go after things like petty weed charges and stuff like that?
    Don't flame me, I am curious how these police forces act unilaterally. Is it possible that when anyone gets into power they kind of like to control the masses and they are corrupted regardless of political affiliation.

    It's 2020 and I would think if Garcetti and his city council of LA thought the police force was full of racists and had bad policing they could control them easily with purse strings.

    I understand the federal level is a whole other beast, but if people in NYC are angry, can you really blame an old white republicans at this point.
    It would take a hard retrospective and really have to hold people accountable at this point.

    Have police forces just become entities unto themselves and are unilaterally on their own regardless of voters. If so, that warrants a wholly separate conversation.
    So flame away, but there are some smart and funny here.
    With all due respect, you do not understand what systemic racism is. It is NOT a culture that makes racism acceptable. I'll explain.


    We enslaved a bunch of people from africa, traumatized and brutalized them, set them free, and then said well, ya know, welcome to capitalism and all, so theres no safety net or anything so sorry about slavery but welcome to being poor and disenfranchised. Really the only way we have accomdated their existence into our society in any real way is to make sure we have the ability to penalize them for not following the law. Ok, rule of law is important, but things get really messy when you factor into this a justice system that is always hungry. It is not designed to let people follow the law and leave well enough alone. No, ticket quotas are just the start. The whole system is designed to extract money, and if you're too poor to pay, it will own you, even for very small infractions. The prisons are for profit, and yes idealy they would be filled with only those who are a danger to society but the real truth is that the justice system preys upon those too poor to escape its clutches.

    Now, you can 'believe in equality' and even be black, but if you are a police officer encountering the descendants of former slaves, and have an attitude of believing in law and order and that people need to be punished for breaking the law, and distrust the poor because they might be criminals and because they surely distrust you, and your behaviors and actions will uphold a racist system.



    Even if one really really believes in the free market there has to be some concessions towards the tiniest bit of socialism, such as increased federal funding of schools in poorer areas, the ending of the privatization of prisons, the insatiable nature of the justice system. Maybe pay public defenders better or something i dont know.





    There is something else that factors into too. Hammurabi's Code. The first known code of laws basically just codified the idea of vengeance and hardly moved past it, but that idea has rreally not evolved very much since then. It changed from vengeance to some idea of justice, but remained a very punitive justice. Ok, yea justice sometimes HAS to be punitive, but it should not punish you for being too poor to do any better. There is an idea that we as a race, the human race, are on some journey of growth, knowledge and wisdom being passed down and built upon throughout the generations and centuries, continually refining our sociopolitical systems by the unrepentant process of trial and error, but refining them nonetheless. The science of psychology is in it's infancy, but has already influenced the worlds of business, marketing, and so many other aspects of our society. We used to expect airline pilots to be perfect, and now we have instead created technologies that allow and adapt for human nature. Psychological research has shown negative reinforcement does not work as well as positive in many cases, especially if the negative reinforcement has a contiued negative impact on your life quality. The carrot is always more effective than the stick. I feel like a lot of people don't want to let go of the idea of a punitive justice system out of some outraged anger that someone else "get away" with breaking the rules and that being unfair. Grow the fuck up though people. I'm not saying anyone should get away with anything and I don't know how to reform the whole system but we can at least have the perspective to see this justice system is literally humanity's very first idea of how to deal with criminality. Maybe we can try and refine it? The only refinement it has seen is to become a tool of our capitalist overlords.


    now, when you factor slavery into that, and factor in the absolutly proven fact that trauma is passed down through the generations, and think there are people alive today whos fucking grandparents were slaves, we're basically punishing the descendents of former slaves for being fucked up from slavery. Its so irrational and wrong.

    Its also just no way to run a country. It is inefficient, and weakens us. All we look at is the economy and if for profit prisons contribute its like ok cool great. But it weakens us as a country.






    Edit, this is just the same stuff as my earlier big long ranty post, but it all ties together. Because of everything i said above in this post, it makes me think that the other idea we need to change is the one that democracy is just about voting. Again, I've already said this, but we cannot vote this problem away. Politicians are too beset by possible controversy to do ANYTHING. The idea that electing the right guy to be scared of doing anything and pissing off anyone is going to save us is irrational. We need to talk to our fellow humans, imagine SOMETHING we can almost all get behind, and make our unified voices be loud enough the politicians will know what the will of the people really is. We cannot and should not burn down the existing power structure, but we also cannot rely upon it any longer.
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  14. #739
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    ncskier it didn't come across as bigoted to me, honestly. Don't beat yourself up or let them get you down. Yeah it might have been smart to google it or read the commensts but whatever. To me you were just trying to understand and what we need is understanding.

    Buster, is the homotrophy of spheres illegal? All he was trying to say is that maybe (hopefully) there was a reason for the arrest that's not evident from the video. Because the video sucks.
    Correct on all points.

  15. #740
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    Likely if you're a Christian Trump supporter.
    Dude held the bible the way I hold a particularly pungent dog poop when I'm cleaning the backyard... Couldn't even claim that it was his own. Guess the level of suspension of disbelief required to participate in organized religion might be sufficient to also convince oneself that it wasn't the 2nd time ever the ginger waffle held that book but still!

  16. #741
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    ncskier it didn't come across as bigoted to me, honestly. Don't beat yourself up or let them get you down. Yeah it might have been smart to google it or read the comments but whatever. To me you were just trying to understand and what we need is understanding.

    Buster, is the homotrophy of spheres illegal? All he was trying to say is that maybe (he was hopeful that) there was a reason for the arrest that's not evident from the video. Because the video sucks.
    It's homotopy, but no, it's an unsolved math problem.

    I get that, but right now it's kind of like going to a funeral and either saying "well he or she wasn't so hot" or "my uncle who died last year was way better...".

    We don't know what the situation was, full stop.

    But if the very first thing that someone says was to posit that that black guy is a pedophile is at the very least inappropriate and reasonably racist.

    Everything matters, right?
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  17. #742
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boissal View Post
    Dude held the bible the way I hold a particularly pungent dog poop when I'm cleaning the backyard... Couldn't even claim that it was his own.
    Name:  bible.jpg
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  18. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    ncskier it didn't come across as bigoted to me, honestly. Don't beat yourself up or let them get you down. Yeah it might have been smart to google it or read the comments but whatever. To me you were just trying to understand and what we need is understanding.

    Buster, is the homotrophy of spheres illegal? All he was trying to say is that maybe (he was hopeful that) there was a reason for the arrest that's not evident from the video. Because the video sucks.
    I’ll add that part of the problem is people are scared to ask these questions due to the knee jerk reaction from the supposedly “woke” people. What ends up happening is they don’t ask the questions and keep those thoughts to themselves and no change happens.

    It’s the people that don’t ask the questions that are the problem.




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  19. #744
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncskier View Post
    Just like millions of people watched the president in front of a church without the prior video? That makes trump a brave hero, right?
    I guess I shouldn't question what i see anymore. You have spoken. Everything on the internet is true.
    I merely pointed out I would save my rage for when I know the facts. Thats all.
    But you know who Donald Trump is. And I assume you know he is not a hero of any kind.

    The only thing you knew about kid in Charleston was that he was black. And speculated about facial recognition software and paedophilia. Rather than it being Police misbehavior.

    You might have well as said "I'm not a rascist but..... "
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  20. #745
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    "There must be something that's not meeting the eye here, because what I'm seeing is insane." Is what he was saying. He was hoping that things hadn't come to the point where a black kid can be arrested merely for speaking. Unfortunately it has come to that point. I wish it hadn't. Does that make me a racist?

  21. #746
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    But you know who Donald Trump is. And I assume you know he is not a hero of any kind.

    The only thing you knew about kid in Charleston was that he was black. And speculated about facial recognition software and paedophilia. Rather than it being Police misbehavior.

    You might have well as said "I'm not a rascist but..... "
    My original post. See point one. No way that kid should have been arrested. That’s my hot take.
    Then I try thinking and said, in what world could a random citizen simply be arrested for kneeling, there has to be a reason? Hence my comment about an outstanding warrant.
    But pile on that I’m a bigot.
    My original post.
    “So I am going to say there is no way that kid should have been arrested. I have no idea for what in that video. I hope their bosses fire those cops for being dicks and the judge awards him damages.
    My rational brain can also see the problem with not having context either. What if they used facial recognition and there were 10 outstanding warrants for that guy.”

  22. #747
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    "There must be something that's not meeting the eye here, because what I'm seeing is insane." Is what he was saying. He was hoping that things hadn't come to the point where a black kid can be arrested merely for speaking. Unfortunately it has come to the point. I wish it hadn't. Does that make me a racist?
    Again, I get that.
    But that doesn't capture what was actually conveyed in terms of positing the black kid as a criminal which is, given the circumstances of Floyds murder, at the very least inappropriate and plausibly racist.

    Let's be adults. I didn't call anyone anything, just trying to have a discussion.
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  23. #748
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    FFS. NCSkier offered an example of a speculative situation that would have changed the context. Given that video, any such hypothetical pretty much has to involve pedophilia and impossible police capabilities or it would change nothing. The larger point that we are living in a world of misinformation and spin and it's good to run things to ground whenever possible is valid. Maybe instead of applying the knee-jerk "he's from Narth Carlina!" conclusion it would help to think maybe he's sick of being lied to and starting to question everything. That's how people learn. Cornering them with identity politics is just more bigotry.

  24. #749
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncskier View Post
    But pile on that I’m a bigot.
    No one said you're a bigot. I hope we can try to be adults and recognize that some stuff is inappropriate.

    Cornering them with identity politics is just more bigotry.
    I disagree. It's reasonable to point out inappropriate and possibly bigoted behavior. That's what adults do.
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  25. #750
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    Again, I get that.
    But that doesn't capture what was actually conveyed in terms of positing the black kid as a criminal which is, given the circumstances of Floyds murder, at the very least inappropriate and plausibly racist.

    Let's be adults. I didn't call anyone anything, just trying to have a discussion.
    No no I was just trying to be clear, I'm not mad at all. He's hired me to interpret for him, and he's working me hard here.

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