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  1. #151
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    we should all shut our faces because this is all public
    I didn't believe in reincarnation when I was your age either.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by simple View Post
    I'll let the guru Bruce J drop the knowledge.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma4m0l6oGOQ
    He also strongly discourages ski cuts when persistent slabs are present:


  3. #153
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    Ding ding. Didn't they say they believed that persistent slabs would not be a risk due to previous avalanche mitigation by the obelix? Or something of that nature?

    Still not seeing reckless endangerment. Hope the lawyer can keep all these nuances under control.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    Can we please adopt "scooch cut" into the snow safety lexicon?
    Genius right? Lol!
    Can’t wait to use it this winter. Heck, it’s supposed to snow here the next few days, I just might have to “scooch cut” the snow off my truck in the morning.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2FUNKY View Post
    Genius right? Lol!
    Can’t wait to use it this winter. Heck, it’s supposed to snow here the next few days, I just might have to “scooch cut” the snow off my truck in the morning.
    Pics or it didn’t happen


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  6. #156
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    Snowboarders cited for triggering avalanche at Eisenhower tunnel

    Quote Originally Posted by simple View Post
    I'll let the guru Bruce J drop the knowledge.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma4m0l6oGOQ
    ...
    I didn't believe in reincarnation when I was your age either.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by simple View Post
    I'll let the guru Bruce J drop the knowledge.

    I’m not sure how you watched that, then shared it, and thought it would help your case.

  8. #158
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    Feb 2005
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    13,800
    Quote Originally Posted by simple View Post
    How many lawyers does it take to plow a road?
    CDOT's got plenty of orange. You want some referrals, cause I know the best in their fleet?

  9. #159
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    Feb 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    From the footage and comments (thanks for that btw), these guys are not as expert at judging avalanche hazard as they may think they are.
    Becoming more common everyday
    “I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”

  10. #160
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    Apr 2005
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    if yur ratcheting tool bros really rip
    ill ski em at alta this winter
    but no falling leaf scooch cuttin on the gay trays is allowed in the holy land
    bro
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  11. #161
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    40
    These two are idiots when it comes to avalanche awareness. They may be badass riders...but who gives a shit about that?
    That is not how you safely cut a slope. If that is what he was trying to do.
    Clearly active wind loading. Avy conditions are changing by the minute. Any assumptions they made before starting their tour are out the window. Should have had a plan B before starting and willing to back off once they saw the wind loading. Based on their indecision of how to proceed after triggering, they didn't think this through ahead of time.
    They are on a thin snowpack near the trigger point - always weak.
    Says "that's what I was afraid of". Wait...if you were afraid this would happen, WTF are you doing on that slope? You must not be that confident the slope is safe from the obilex (which isn't intended to make this slope safe to ski on). Your confidence level better be higher than that if you are going to risk a road and infrastructure. Sounds like they knew there was a good chance this could happen.
    Their dumbass hindsight continues - "Fuck, we buried the road, hope no one was on it." Those are the thoughts you should be having long before you are standing at the top of a line like this.
    I don't know if this meets the legal standard of reckless, but for sure was reckless by a common sense standard.

    Genuinely glad no one was injured or killed, including the two responsible. But, seriously, get these morons out of the backcountry before they do injure or kill themselves or someone else.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by talbash View Post
    .

    Genuinely glad no one was injured or killed, including the two responsible. But, seriously, get these morons out of the backcountry before they do injure or kill themselves or someone else.
    The massive group of new backcountry riders expected this year will make every day exciting for everyone else.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by talbash View Post
    These two are idiots when it comes to avalanche awareness. They may be badass riders...but who gives a shit about that?
    That is not how you safely cut a slope. If that is what he was trying to do.
    Clearly active wind loading. Avy conditions are changing by the minute. Any assumptions they made before starting their tour are out the window. Should have had a plan B before starting and willing to back off once they saw the wind loading. Based on their indecision of how to proceed after triggering, they didn't think this through ahead of time.
    They are on a thin snowpack near the trigger point - always weak.
    Says "that's what I was afraid of". Wait...if you were afraid this would happen, WTF are you doing on that slope? You must not be that confident the slope is safe from the obilex (which isn't intended to make this slope safe to ski on). Your confidence level better be higher than that if you are going to risk a road and infrastructure. Sounds like they knew there was a good chance this could happen.
    Their dumbass hindsight continues - "Fuck, we buried the road, hope no one was on it." Those are the thoughts you should be having long before you are standing at the top of a line like this.
    I don't know if this meets the legal standard of reckless, but for sure was reckless by a common sense standard.
    Great post. If this case goes to trial, this is a good summary of what the State's expert witness will testify. For fun, here is what the expert witness for the defense would say:

    The snowboarders were very familiar with this line, as they have driven by hundreds of times. The area is normally unskiable because the predominant winds blow snow from the upper line to the East side of the continental divide. Southern winds in the weeks before the event filled the upper line enough to make it skiable, but it was still a very thin, shallow, snowpack on the upper run. The snowboarders had skied a similar line (same area, aspect, ect) in the days before the event without incident, and there was no significant weather changes from that date. Because the snowpack on the upper run was very shallow, and very steep, the snowboarders assumed that even if a slide were to occur, it would not be large enough to sweep them off their feet and would be something they could easily ski out of (the crown for the slide they triggered was 4 to 6 inches). Of course, even a small slide can run down, gain momentum, and step down to weak layers on the apron causing a much larger slide. However, the snowboarders (incorrectly) assumed the avy mitigation equipment had prevented the build up of weak layers on the apron throughout the winter. So the snowboarders (incorrectly) assumed that worst case scenario, they would trigger a small slide that would run on the surface the entire path and not step down. They assumed this small slide would pose no danger to the avy mitigation equipment, the road, and the buildings below. There was active wind loading at the start point. And their ski cut was not executed well. But again, the snowboarders were not concerned with triggering a large slide because the snowpack at the start zone was so shallow, and their incorrect assumption that the avy mitigation equipment had stabilized the lower part of the run. Bad decision, yes. Criminal recklessness beyond a reasonable doubt, no.

  14. #164
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    ^^ If those are the two closing arguments then I see a guilty verdict.
    ((. The joy I get from skiing...
    .))
    ((. That's worth living for.
    .))

  15. #165
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    If anyone hears when the trial will be, I'd like to attend.
    "True love is much easier to find with a helicopter"

  16. #166
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    That was a classic windloaded aspect.
    One I won't normally ski or skoochcut.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  17. #167
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    Oct 2007
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    CDOT builds infrastructure in avalanche terrain and is now seeking compensation because an avalanche took it out.

  18. #168
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    Nov 2002
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    I don't even know what ya'll are arguing but I'll say this. That behavior doesn't register real high on the "look how much of an idiot this guy is!" meter in Colorado. Point being, if you want to set some arbitrary standard of negligence from your armchair, understand exactly how many people you are parking the bus on top of. It's a nice idea the think that the backcounty is full of Avi 2 educated 10+year experience Grade A decision makers but that ain't the case. Right or wrong, people gonna do dumb shit. Rules and regulation don't seem like the best way to address the problem.

  19. #169
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    see? Even the bots agree.

  20. #170
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    closer
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    sorry to interrupt the scooching and bro smooching from a euro perspective: But how is it even possible to hit an open road in the us? There would be like 20 Avie galleries and tunnels in that spot overe here. IF you can hit a road (and that is mostly high remote mountain roads....if you can hit a Highway/Autobahn, it would the snow apocalypse) in Europe, it's Avi level 4+ and those idiots would probably have killed themselves prior to hitting that road.

    And being sued is pretty much the standard here if you endanger other people, in italy it's enough to trigger an avie to get problems.(edit: which is pretty ridiculous from my persective if I only edanger myself. But endangering other people is a VERY different thing.)
    It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.

  21. #171
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    Jul 2016
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    Mostly the Elks, mostly.
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    Agreed with Frush.

    the video (and their comments) show a powerful argument for they 'knew or reasonably should have known' .. and as usual jury selection would be key - but maybe more likely to seat users of the road than shredders of the guhnar.

    Either way, if I was betting? No way DA dismisses, trial unlikely. I bet they take a guilty plea, maybe to a lesser charge even: 6 months deferred, maybe some community service, and pay some restitution - CDOT agrees to not sue them for damages. If I was these guys I'd take something like that. In the end no criminal record, and it sends the message that BC users potentially can be accountable for damage they cause.

    fwiw, I kinda oddly appreciate the guys for stepping up and being accountable, even if they did kinda shoot their own foot as a result. A lot of us might stand to learn a lot from this situation, no matter what the end result is.
    north bound horse.

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by subtle plague View Post
    sorry to interrupt the scooching and bro smooching from a euro perspective: But how is it even possible to hit an open road in the us? There would be like 20 Avie galleries and tunnels in that spot overe here. IF you can hit a road (and that is mostly high remote mountain roads....if you can hit a Highway/Autobahn, it would the snow apocalypse) in Europe, it's Avi level 4+ and those idiots would probably have killed themselves prior to hitting that road.

    And being sued is pretty much the standard here if you endanger other people, in italy it's enough to trigger an avie to get problems.(edit: which is pretty ridiculous from my persective if I only edanger myself. But endangering other people is a VERY different thing.)
    You answered your own question -- Europe vs US.

    But just for a little more context, they didn't bury a highway. The buried a service road that serves a highway. And it took a big slide to do that. To my knowledge, the highway itself has never been directly impacted by anything sliding in this area.

  23. #173
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    Ya, I am not sure it would be possible to cover the freeway with an avalanche down the line they skied. It has to cross the access road, and then there is the structure at the entrance of the tunnel that would block debris from getting to the actual freeway. The access road is open to the public, but normally only used by maintenance workers who would (hopefully) be smart enough to not hang out along the road any longer than necessary.

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    I can't think of too many snowsheds protecting US roads from avalanches. The only one that covers a freeway comes to mind is the one recently completed on I-90 East of Alpental ski area. In Europe, building a crazy road or train through the mountains is considered an engineering achievement where as in the US, it would be considered an environmental travesty.

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    If they go to trial, the jury will only be from Summit County, CO, so most likeley skiers.

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    Ya, I am not sure it would be possible to cover the freeway with an avalanche down the line they skied. It has to cross the access road, and then there is the structure at the entrance of the tunnel that would block debris from getting to the actual freeway. The access road is open to the public, but normally only used by maintenance workers who would (hopefully) be smart enough to not hang out along the road any longer than necessary.

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    I can't think of too many snowsheds protecting US roads from avalanches. The only one that covers a freeway comes to mind is the one recently completed on I-90 East of Alpental ski area. In Europe, building a crazy road or train through the mountains is considered an engineering achievement where as in the US, it would be considered an environmental travesty.

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    If they go to trial, the jury will only be from Summit County, CO, so most likeley skiers.
    There’s no snow sheds on I90 anymore there’s a new wildlife crossing but that isn’t near a slide zone
    “I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”

  25. #175
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    My mistake, there was a snowshed there but they instead raised the freeway up so that slides would go under the freeway rather than over.

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