Results 226 to 250 of 417
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12-06-2020, 01:43 PM #226
No respectable avalanche professional is going to claim that ski cutting slab that is likely to step down to the ground in that snowpack is a regularly recommended safety practice for the CO winter backcountry. It is not.
Asking that would allow the avalanche professional to accurately testify that ski cutting inbounds is the most risky mitigation action ski patrollers engage in and that they only do it when terrain is closed, not over open roads.
It also opens the line of inquiry as to whether these two snowboarders were professionally trained to ski cut for mitigation. (answer: no)Originally Posted by blurred
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12-06-2020, 02:32 PM #227Registered User
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You may be right about the advisability of ski cutting, etc., but I could ginny up 3 ski guides in a heartbeat who teach avy courses that would say ski cutting IS a standard safety practice for backcountry skiers. I don't need a DOT professional or pro patroller to make a convincing argument to a jury. Could produce plenty of articles too, to refute your expert opinion. And the fact that a tiny little ski cut could cause the avy that actually occurred will solidify the premise that the equipment was placed in a terrible spot. We're talking about reasonable doubt here. These guys will walk, scot free.
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12-06-2020, 03:37 PM #228
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12-06-2020, 03:42 PM #229Registered User
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Ha! Maybe not to you they aren't, but they will be for the purposes of this case. Anybody certified to teach Avy 1 courses will be accepted as an expert for the purposes of testifying on the reasonableness of the actions these guys took that day. Avy 1 is the gold standard for the minimum necessary for the everywoman "getting out there safely." BTW - As long as we're talking about professionalism, is there any science weaker than avy science? I have a hard time coming up with an example.
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12-06-2020, 04:53 PM #230Banned
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The only weak thing here would be not throwing the book at these two assholes.
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12-06-2020, 06:03 PM #231
let he who is without sin cast the first book.....
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12-06-2020, 06:23 PM #232
“Anyone with a trust fund and a pair of Dynafits is guide these days”
Avy 1 as the gold standard is kinda weak, it’s supposed to teach recreational users how to identify avalanche terrain and travel in it if I had a dollar for everyone that said they were “certified Avy 1” I would own a pair of Praxis RXs, these two guys were stupid for being in avalanche paths that are controlled to protect the highway telling the whole world probably even stupider“I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”
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12-06-2020, 06:32 PM #233I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.
"Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"
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12-06-2020, 06:53 PM #234retired ed
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I want to tell you a story. I'm going to ask you all to close your eyes while I tell you the story. I want you to listen to me. I want you to listen to yourselves. Go ahead. Close your eyes, please. This is a story about 2 snowboarders going on a tour. I want you to picture them. Can you see them? I want you to picture them. Now imagine there skiers.
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12-06-2020, 08:52 PM #235
Lol
"fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
"She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
"everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy
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12-06-2020, 09:17 PM #236
I don't know you and I don't know where you are from, but your name suggests you are used to a maritime snowpack and not a continental snowpack. Ski cuts are not standard safety practice in a continental snowpack, they aren't L1 curriculum, and no halfway respected guide will say ski cutting a line that could bury a road is a good idea.
Originally Posted by blurred
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12-06-2020, 09:30 PM #237
It doesn’t matter that they were snowboarding, skiers are just as stupid.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
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12-06-2020, 10:08 PM #238Registered User
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Yeah, I'm sure ski cuts are just a maritime thing. Regardless, they will get experts who say otherwise. And what's your beef with that? We're talking about a court case here, not debating real life best practices. AFAIC, they probably shouldn't have put those avy devices there. And they definitely should have made the slopes above off limits. I suspect a jury will find those to be significant errors of judgement made by bonafide avalanche professionals, mitigating the culpability of hapless recreationalists.
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12-06-2020, 11:32 PM #239Registered User
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Does anyone find it odd that a system designed to create avalanches was destroyed by an avalanche? Sounds like a design defect to me.
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12-07-2020, 07:28 AM #240I suspect a jury will find those to be significant errors of judgement made by bonafide avalanche professionals, mitigating the culpability of hapless recreationalists.
Please explain how the siting of those Daisies by avalanche professionals has anything to do with the poor decision making on the part of two other people? Ostensibly people who by their own claim are avalanche experts or at least well educated in avalanche hazards.
Are you saying if the equipment had not been there these guys would be liable?
One has little to do with the other.
If there had been vehicles parked in the run out and they were damaged would that have made any difference? If there had been traffic on the bypass and someone was killed would these guys be liable for some sort of a Homicide charge?
As long as we're talking about professionalism, is there any science weaker than avy science? I have a hard time coming up with an example.I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.
"Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"
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12-07-2020, 08:27 AM #241
Fair question. I post obs from other people's skier triggered avi's (that I've seen but been uninvolved in), from pits/analyses where I've decided backed off, or very small sluffs, block failures, or even naturals I've witnessed. And in full disclosure, I have posted a couple where I made a mistake or missed a terrain feature. Not proud of those. Nobody has been caught or hurt and no 'highway fixtures damaged.'
I always posted for the same reasons these guys did; awareness and maybe it'll help someone else be safer.
Where I live, we are all very quick to MMQB any avi mistakes and the court of public opinion is often way more critical than it is understanding. So like Redacted said, could a 'good' lawyer take all that and spin it up to make it look bad? Yeah maybe so.
So that's my point, just makes me think twice.
Have a safe winter alsonorth bound horse.
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12-07-2020, 08:43 AM #242Registered User
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12-07-2020, 10:55 AM #243
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12-07-2020, 02:39 PM #244
OK, great, so what?
Were they charged with destruction of property?
@ MoN, got it and understand. Best wishes for some snow.I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.
"Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"
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12-07-2020, 03:23 PM #245guy who skis
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They were charged with reckless endangerment, and the DA is seeking restitution, which they can get if they can prove (1) the defendants committed a crime and (2) the crime was the cause of the property damage at issue. For all the talk of "precedent" in this case, these are all pretty standard elements of criminal procedure. Any time somebody does something stupid (and arguably reckless) that causes six figures of damage, it shouldn't be a surprise that they get charged with a crime.
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02-16-2021, 12:12 PM #246Registered User
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Incase anyone wants to watch the motions hearing today at 3pm
https://judicial.webex.com/webappng/...532906FC0AAFD8
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02-17-2021, 09:41 AM #247
video and photos to be allowed at trial. No 4th amendment violation.
https://www.summitdaily.com/news/cri...sed-avalanche/
Trial set for mar25north bound horse.
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02-17-2021, 09:44 AM #248
wonder how many folks are going to refrain from reporting now that it’s known that it will be used against them in court...
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02-17-2021, 10:13 AM #249
How often do avalanche incidents end up in Court?
I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.
"Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"
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02-17-2021, 10:33 AM #250Registered User
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This is what I'm flummoxed by - surely the public interest in sharing information for the purposes of education trumps the public interest of prosecuting / sending the message, however dumb their actions may have been. But I suppose if you're the Sheriff's Office, that unintended consequence of putting a chill on avy information sharing isn't as much of a concern as it would be for CAIC.
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