Results 326 to 350 of 417
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03-18-2021, 11:55 AM #326I agree. If you're dumb enough to publicly admit that you anticipated the possibility of burying a road with an avalanche, and went ahead and skied a line anyway, maybe you ought to deal with some consequences. That's a fucked up thing to do. It deserves to be condemned. Community service seems reasonable.
But I don't think paying for damages to the O'bellx system should be one of those consequence.
No big deal, I have insurance and they will pay for it so community service is all the punishment required?
Or maybe, they should pay my deductible and perform community service?
Just because these guys are snow sports enthusiasts doesn't give them an out for doing stupid shit.
165K is over the top, 25K split between them seems more reasonable.I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.
"Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"
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03-18-2021, 08:28 PM #327
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03-18-2021, 10:11 PM #328
Unless that zone was off limits to the public, charging these guys is ridiculous.
Way that wind was loading that zone it could have just slid naturally
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03-18-2021, 10:28 PM #329
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03-18-2021, 11:03 PM #330
It's really interesting to me how people have vastly different opinions on this, with strong conviction that they're right.
"fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
"She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
"everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy
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03-18-2021, 11:06 PM #331Registered User
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In reading this thread, I’ve kinda come to the conclusion that CDOT shouldn’t put their expensive tools in avy paths if they can’t handle the stresses of an avalanche. It doesn’t matter what the triggering mechanism is. It could slide. You certainly couldn’t put a house in that area with the oversight we have in building today, because it would be destroyed, and people could die. Now if these two dipshits had killed someone on the road below, I could see there criminal or civil charges being valid. If public lands are legal to cross, then that should be the end of it. If that area was deemed hazardous, it should have been roped off and closed the public.
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03-18-2021, 11:17 PM #332
In many ways I agree, but the one problem with that is the impacts of that policy choice. If that is the outcome of this case, wouldn't it create an incentive for the government to close many spots that in some circumstances might cause damage to person or property?
Whereas, if these people are held responsible, one impact of that policy would be that people are hopefully more conservative with their choices in those spots?
This case is fascinating to me."fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
"She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
"everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy
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03-18-2021, 11:37 PM #333
In South Lake Tahoe we have a zone off limits to the public above hwy 50, they have gasx installed. It gets poached occasionally and I imagine if someone got caught setting off a avalanche onto the hwy they would be prosecuted and I’d be fine with that. I can tell you though it would never endanger the gasx installation cause around here they put them at the top of the slide paths not below them.
If this was publicly open land IMHO these guys should not be held responsible, that slope would fail on its own at some point if not this day then it’s just a matter of time. Then who would pay for the poor placement of there equipment?
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03-19-2021, 04:02 AM #334
Ditto. Currently I'm mulling over this:
Casias said he did not think Greene would be testifying as an expert witness about whether or not veteran backcountry travelers Hannibal and DeWitt were breaking laws when they snowboarded on the slope above I-70 near the Eisenhower- Johnson Memorial Tunnels.
“He is testifying as to what his report determined,” Casias said. “That is education and that is education for the members of this community who will have to decide whether this behavior was criminal or not.”
Prosecutors filed a motion objecting to the expert witness recruited by Hannibal and DeWitt, avalanche educator Jon Miller, who has promoted avalanche safety across the West for decades.
While I see being a fucking clued in moran as even more egregious than a clueless one, I don't think the behavior itself was criminal. Now, if they violated a closure and skied the fingers, that would be an easy case. Also, this would be much more complicated if there were human casualties.
There's a lot of in's and out's to this one.
Classic version of hard cases make bad law.
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03-19-2021, 05:44 AM #335I didn't believe in reincarnation when I was your age either.
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03-19-2021, 06:40 AM #336I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.
"Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"
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03-19-2021, 07:17 AM #337Registered User
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so when a snow plow or heavy machinery owned and operated by the state or local gov't hits your car they claim government immunity and walk away without having to pay a dime
they leave all the messy shit for you to pick up and figure out and pay for the damages with your insurance company
they turn the tables now and want someone to pay for their stupidity give it up
as I said these snowboarders are guilty of being idiots but that's it
driving by the tunnel twice this week I looked over and saw a number of cars parked and people skiing, suprised cdot hasn't tried to shut that access down I'm sure it's coming once the case is over
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03-19-2021, 07:57 AM #338
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03-19-2021, 08:13 AM #339
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03-19-2021, 08:14 AM #340
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03-19-2021, 08:58 AM #341so when a snow plow or heavy machinery owned and operated by the state or local gov't hits your car they claim government immunity and walk away without having to pay a dime
More years ago than I would like to admit I was parked by the side of 191 at the Bacon Rind trail head and oddly enough I was skiing with a very young Ethan Greene, around 93/94. It had been a great day and when we got back to my truck the back window of the camper shell was blown in and the bed was full of plow debris.
I contacted MDT, submitted a claim and they cut me a check in about 3 weeks time.
Nice try.I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.
"Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"
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03-19-2021, 11:16 AM #342"fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
"She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
"everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy
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03-19-2021, 11:20 AM #343guy who skis
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03-19-2021, 01:15 PM #344Registered User
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- Fresh Lake City
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03-19-2021, 02:53 PM #345
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03-19-2021, 06:44 PM #346
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03-19-2021, 09:55 PM #347
When was it installed?
We humans think in terms of return periods of 10-20 years as being a long time.
So yeah, probably. Not sure how that matters though.I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.
"Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"
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03-19-2021, 10:29 PM #348
I think it's a fairly recent installation.
Because it got damaged from the avy, everyone seems to assume that it was poorly/improperly placed. And I get the logic. But it also seems like a bunch of TGR dentists may not be as knowledgeable and skilled with that equipment as cdot and the caic. It seems weird that they would simply install it in the wrong place. Anyone have any real insight?"fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
"She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
"everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy
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03-19-2021, 10:43 PM #349
We had a separate discussion on this. The CAIC report has a photo that shows the Obeelx if you zoom in. You can see one undamaged unit and one damaged. They were installed in 2018.
It can easily be argued that they were not installed in a suitable location for potential overhead risks. Those risks were likely estimated was extremely low....until someone decided to ski the line.
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03-20-2021, 09:20 AM #350
offering lesser charges and to go 168k --> 25k split 2 ways is kinda doing just that, yeah? Seems like a screaming deal to me.
well maybe it "could have" .. but it hadn't.
And I disagree. Just because something isn't closed, doesn't give people a free pass to non-accountability of their actions.
and a lotta what have you's.
And yes, we shouldn't have to pay for their actions.
I'm leaning this way: Were people put at risk, and was property damaged by their actions? Yes.
Did they know, or should they reasonably have known, that their actions could have had consequences? Yes, and the one bro actually says so in his video.
Blaming CDOT/CAIC for the placement or their chingass or not closing the slope (from a 'proximate cause' standpoint) probably doesn't get much legal traction - but it'll be used to try to deflect blame in front of the jury.
Fire ban or no, I can't be reckless with a campfire and burn the forest and some buildings and put people at risk. Even though the USFS could say 'one day that could maybe burn naturally anyway' and 'they shouldnta put their buildings there.'north bound horse.
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