Snowboarders cited for triggering avalanche at Eisenhower tunnel

[MakersTeleMark]

The accused were snowboarders. Report says it was a skier .... if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit.

Type: HS
Trigger: AR - Snowboarder
Trigger (subcode): --
Size - Relative to Path: R3
Size - Destructive Force: D3
Sliding Surface: O - Within Old Snow

First sentence of report: "This was a hard slab avalanche triggered by a snowboarder."

[altasnob]

This is Chewbacca, Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk, but Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now, think about that. That does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee - an eight foot tall Wookiee - want to live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! What does that have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! None of this makes sense. If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests. DAMNIT!

[MakersTeleMark]

This is Chewbacca, Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk, but Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now, think about that. That does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee - an eight foot tall Wookiee - want to live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! What does that have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! None of this makes sense. If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests. DAMNIT!

That used to be my avatar way back in the day before Tits Or GTFO.

[summit]

The D.A. serves Clear Creek, Summit, Lake, and Eagle Counties. He is also term limited, and his Deputy is running unopposed.

And strangely he doesn't really support enforcement of the public health order.

I wonder either the avalanche case or the public health order situation will change once she takes over from him?

[Buster Highmen]

This is Chewbacca, Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk, but Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now, think about that. That does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee - an eight foot tall Wookiee - want to live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! What does that have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! None of this makes sense. If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests. DAMNIT!

Midget sex.

[GravityPilot]

The article says Hannibal is not working at his patrol job this winter to focus on med-school. If his income is low, he should demand a public defender be appointed. If they make too much money for a public defender, they need to try harder to find an attorney who will take this case to trial for free or at least cheap. Lots of defense attorneys take prominent cases that are getting media attention for free. It's great advertising. Get a not guilty verdict on this case and the attorney will own the Summit County defense market.

The guy was a volunteer patroller with one maybe two years there. He makes no money as a ski patroller and is in no way associated with ANYTHING snow safety at that ski area. That team is not very pleased with his facade.

[simple]

https://snowbrains.com/men-triggered...ghts-violated/

Here we go again.

[SKIP IN7RO]

They sure don't want you to forget that snowboarders triggered it. Part of me thinks this exposed a weakness in the avy control in that area, while the other part wonders why a person would drive all the way from Vail for that line....hollyhood

[MiddleOfNight]

No reasonable expectation of privacy for video footage voluntarily sent to a state agency. Effectively, that's consent. Video gets in.

Voluntary, non-custodial statements made to the same agency, online, and in the video are similarly unlikely to be suppressed.

But I'm no dentist.

[Wapow]

Your armchair dentistry is off, but you're on the right track. They volunteered the video, so search and seizure laws don't apply. Stupidity isn't a Miranda violation, or something of that sort. That said, a half decent lawyer should be able to get them off simply by showing (to a jury, no less, easily sway-able) that the slide they triggered was unintentional and the position of the equipment was fatally flawed. A natural release would have eventually done the same damage. Should be easy to get an avalanche expert to agree that a "100 year slide" would have done the same and 100 year slides seem to be happening every ten years or so nowadays.

[MiddleOfNight]

Your armchair dentistry is off

Yeah that'll happen

Yeah I was just figuring that the "constitutional rights violations" part wouldn't get much traction.

[simple]

Seems like the judge could make that decision. Gonna be contested but good point on how agressive the state was and maybe they got sloppy in their case building strategy. Don't lawyers like to dig into government following protocol?

[Bunion 2020]

So there was 168K in claimed damages and now we will spend ??$$ to try these ding-dongs?

[Name Redacted]

Your armchair dentistry is off, but you're on the right track. They volunteered the video, so search and seizure laws don't apply. Stupidity isn't a Miranda violation, or something of that sort. That said, a half decent lawyer should be able to get them off simply by showing (to a jury, no less, easily sway-able) that the slide they triggered was unintentional and the position of the equipment was fatally flawed. A natural release would have eventually done the same damage. Should be easy to get an avalanche expert to agree that a "100 year slide" would have done the same and 100 year slides seem to be happening every ten years or so nowadays.

They gave the video to CDOT, who then gave it to CSP and apparently that's where the rights violation stands if I understand correctly:
https://www.summitdaily.com/news/att...sed-avalanche/

But yeah, as I've said before in this thread, the location of the equipment was their own fault. I wonder if there were any signs notifying BC travelers of the existence or location of the equipment.

Really hope that there's no lasting consequences to all BC travel because of this. Honestly, it would be bad if it caused people to be more reluctant to report incidents in general, which has been something the CAIC has worked hard to get people to do, and it is a really good resource for planning to know what is already sliding.

[MiddleOfNight]

They gave the video to CDOT, who then gave it to CSP and apparently that's where the rights violation stands if I understand correctly

I'm afraid that once you give it up to an agency voluntarily, you lose control over what they choose to do with it. There might even be some agreement between those agencies that they are 'required' to disclose potential crimes they come across?

Honestly, it would be bad if it caused people to be more reluctant to report incidents in general, which has been something the CAIC has worked hard to get people to do, and it is a really good resource for planning to know what is already sliding.

^^ This. I'll sure think twice before posting anything to CAIC ever again.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I'll sure think twice before posting anything to CAIC ever again.

Why?

[goldenboy]

I think it's a pretty reasonable expectation that giving a video to a public safety organization should be used for public safety, not to get arrested. It looks like CO's Good Samaritan law only applies to giving medical aid, but I feel like there's an argument there as well- they were trying to inform fellow backcountry users of danger.

For the record, I'm not sure what I think about this case overall, but I don't like their info and video being used against them.

[glademaster]

I think it's a pretty reasonable expectation that giving a video to a public safety organization should be used for public safety, not to get arrested. It looks like CO's Good Samaritan law only applies to giving medical aid, but I feel like there's an argument there as well- they were trying to inform fellow backcountry users of danger.

For the record, I'm not sure what I think about this case overall, but I don't like their info and video being used against them.

By that same logic, I could install a dash cam, drive around slamming beers, and would get off scot-free as long as I called it a PSA about the perils of drunk driving when I post the footage.

Stupid is as stupid does.

[MiddleOfNight]

Why?

I think theres a way to be anonymous. But if my obs, reports, and submissions could be used against me to i dunno, show a 'pattern of recklessness' if something happened someday. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but ...

[Bunion 2020]

Not trying to start a fight but if you are that worried about demonstrating a pattern of recklessness maybe you should be looking at your behavior.

This whole thing should have been handled better and differently to get people to really understand that their decision making in the BC could have effects on people besides their own group.

Have a safe winter.

[Name Redacted]

Not trying to start a fight but if you arer that worried about demonstrating a pattern of recklessness maybe you should be looking at your behavior.

I don't know, I think that any information that you put into the public sphere can be twisted to make you look good or bad these days. You could post a bunch of Avy obs from safe locations for a year. Then five years later, your partner dies in a freak avalanche accident and his wife and kid sue you for all you are worth, or using this case as precedent, the cops throw you in jail for man slaughter. Seems unlikely but who really knows anymore?

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Not trying to start a fight but if you arer that worried about demonstrating a pattern of recklessness maybe you should be looking at your behavior.

This whole thing should have been handled better and differently to get people to really understand that their decision making in the BC could have effects on people besides their own group.

I don't know, I think that any information that you put into the public sphere can be twisted to make you look good or bad these days. You could post a bunch of Avy obs from safe locations for a year. Then five years later, your partner dies in a freak avalanche accident and his wife and kid sue you for all you are worth, or using this case as precedent, the cops throw you in jail for man slaughter. Seems unlikely but who really knows anymore?

Yeah, all this is why I asked why. If Name Redacted's scenario really is possible then I would agree with his hesitance to share observations. I'm not so sure it is, but I'm listening.

I remain ambivalent about this case. Mostly the idea of introducing more litigation into BC skiing is reprehensible. But... I mean... these guys triggered an avy that buried a road and then one of them said "That's what I was afraid of." That's pretty fucked up.

[m2711c]

So, if he hadn’t said that outloud, everything would have been fine?

[I've seen black diamonds!]

So, if he hadn’t said that outloud, everything would have been fine?

Of course not. But it makes what they did much worse in my eyes. They knew they were above a road, they knew the snowpack was sketchy, and they went for it anyway. People make bad decision in the mountains all the time. I know I've made bad decisions. But when you anticipate that your actions could hurt other people, and you go ahead with your plan anyway, well, that's a profoundly selfish thing to do.

[Wapow]

I would put a few avy experts up on the stand to show that ski cuts are a standard safety practice and his utterance was a reaction to the rare experience of having a big slide as a result, which is actually true. And then fall back to the fact that this would have happened eventually anyway, based on their having placed the avy equipment in the middle of a natural slide path. All you need is one juror to agree.