Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
    Posts
    18,165

    Air Fork Upgrade? 2018 Intense Tracer with coil

    Bike: 2018 Intense Tracer with a CC Helm Coil 275 (2260g 160mm) and CC DB Inline Coil (165mm travel)

    Riding: Enduro setup in general, one bike quiver that does park (Keystone, Trestle, Whistler) and trails Colorado (mostly western slope) & Utah.

    Goal: I decided to go lighter, but increase travel. (Worried we won't have a park season, but keep that park capability).

    New Shock Chose a Fox DPX2 on the back.

    What fork? I was thinking 180mm or 170mm air fork and I could get a lighter overall setup yet have more travel, don't want to kill the geo though. Float 36? Lyrik? Helm Air? Onyx?
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,491
    If you are just testing the waters in a sense...save some cash and buy my fork. I'll drop price and deliver. I loved this fork as it is light and Enduro ready. Benefit is on climbs it barely moves at all. Something a coil doesn't do without turning a knob.

    https://westslope.craigslist.org/bop...118966185.html

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Land of Brine Shrimp and Magic Underwear
    Posts
    6,067
    I ran a 180 36 Grip2 on that bike but found it too much. Slackened the SA too much and made it real wallowy climbing. Felt off the back on the DH, like it overwhelmed the rear end. Had an X2 with 6 spacers and about 20 lbs over recommended pressure for my weight. Dropped the fork to 170 and that was the sweet spot for me. The difference was surprisingly dramatic. Bike came alive again, felt way more balanced.

    As to what fork, IDK. Pretty tough to beat the Float 36 Grip2 for this application. Plenty around on the used market these days.
    There's nothing better than sliding down snow... flying through the air.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
    Posts
    18,165
    Looking pretty excited at some Fox 36 Grip2 set at 170mm...

    OK question, if i go to 170mm with a 37mm offset from my 160mm with a 44mm offset... bad? Find a fork with a 44mm offset?
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,491
    IMO be ready to change the stem if you change the offset. I'm no expert and depends on your current reach #s

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Mt. Baker
    Posts
    1,410
    I am running the 36 grip2 with a push coil conversion and couldn't be more happy. Its light enough for a killer XC rig, yet handles bike part duties no problem. I liked it so much on my reckoning I moved it over to my new Offering. I'd go as far and say its the best feeling fork Ive ever used and is even better than my Fox 40 was with the stock setup.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    448
    Conveniently, some very smart and strikingly handsome guy just wrote a bunch of stuff about offset for Blister that you should check out.

    https://blisterreview.com/gear-101/b...e-fork-offsets

    My general thought for the Tracer is that it's in the kind of "normal" range of burly trail bike geometry where either will work fine. The 37mm offset will feel a bit more stable at speed, and a little more wander-y and annoying at climbing kinds of speeds. Kinda up to you if that sounds like a net benefit or not.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    9,375
    Suspension is a shitty place to try to save weight.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    448
    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    Suspension is a shitty place to try to save weight.
    Also that.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
    Posts
    18,165
    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    Suspension is a shitty place to try to save weight.
    Yes. There is more to my situation.

    I like my Helm Coil at least as much as the Xfusion Metric it replaced, but the Helm coil is stiffer than I want with the medium spring (I have to turn off dampening) or softer than I want with the soft spring.

    So I am carting around an extra weight of coil that I can't get dialed the way I really want for any ride, much less between being a trail bike and "I'm wearing all my DH armor today" bike... all while having 160mm travel vs the 170mm I think the bike will handle.

    In the back I get to easily switch (45sec) between my DB Inline Coil for shuttle/park tech and DPX2 for pedal/park flow. Swapping forks is way more work and more expensive to keep the extra fork, and unlike my DB Inline Coil, I don't have a perfectly dialed fork.

    If I was truly trying to save weight I'd be asking about something that is a full pound lighter than my Helm Coil like a Sapphire, Ribbon Air or a Pike.

    I'm looking at the Float 36, Diamond D1, Onyx SC, Helm Air, and Lyrik.

    I'm going to save a half pound because it won't be a coil, but I still expect the fork to perform as well or better than my Helm Coil on Jam Rock at Keystone and Dirt Merchant at Whistler because I'm counting on the tunability to make up for air vs coil.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    448
    Just looked it up, and it looks like Cane Creek only offers the spring in 10 lb increments. That's a pretty big jump from 45 to 55 lb/in. I wonder if you could find a 50lb spring with dimensions close enough to work. Vorsprung maybe?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    9,375
    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Yes. There is more to my situation.

    I like my Helm Coil at least as much as the Xfusion Metric it replaced, but the Helm coil is stiffer than I want with the medium spring (I have to turn off dampening) or softer than I want with the soft spring.

    So I am carting around an extra weight of coil that I can't get dialed the way I really want for any ride, much less between being a trail bike and "I'm wearing all my DH armor today" bike... all while having 160mm travel vs the 170mm I think the bike will handle.

    In the back I get to easily switch (45sec) between my DB Inline Coil for shuttle/park tech and DPX2 for pedal/park flow. Swapping forks is way more work and more expensive to keep the extra fork, and unlike my DB Inline Coil, I don't have a perfectly dialed fork.

    If I was truly trying to save weight I'd be asking about something that is a full pound lighter than my Helm Coil like a Sapphire, Ribbon Air or a Pike.

    I'm looking at the Float 36, Diamond D1, Onyx SC, Helm Air, and Lyrik.

    I'm going to save a half pound because it won't be a coil, but I still expect the fork to perform as well or better than my Helm Coil on Jam Rock at Keystone and Dirt Merchant at Whistler because I'm counting on the tunability to make up for air vs coil.
    Yeah, that all makes sense. Aside from what HAB said, these days I'm one to stick with Fox / Rockshox. Sure, there are some other brands that make good forks, but my experience has always been that they're a little weird in one way or another. The current 36 and Lyrik are pretty damn good forks that're tough to beat.

    My take is: 36 is a little lighter, and a little more supportive in the early / mid stroke. Lyrik is a little stiffer, and a little more supple over small bumps. But it's kinda splitting hairs between those - both are great.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Land of Brine Shrimp and Magic Underwear
    Posts
    6,067
    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Looking pretty excited at some Fox 36 Grip2 set at 170mm...

    OK question, if i go to 170mm with a 37mm offset from my 160mm with a 44mm offset... bad? Find a fork with a 44mm offset?
    Don't have much input here except that mine was 44 for sure. 37 might mitigate some of the stuff I experienced in terms of handling on the down but no gettin away from that STA if you go longer than 170. I've only experienced shorter offset on a 29er but I'd prolly go 37, shorter seems to be the trend.

    Tend to agree with Toast about smaller brand forks, there's always something with them. Parts and service are harder to find too. Fox and Rockshox are just so dialed these days. Plus they're ubiquitous enough that there are plenty of people to work on them and aftermarket parts too.
    There's nothing better than sliding down snow... flying through the air.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    slc
    Posts
    11,764
    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    I'm looking at the Float 36, Diamond D1, Onyx SC, Helm Air, and Lyrik.

    I'm going to save a half pound because it won't be a coil, but I still expect the fork to perform as well or better than my Helm Coil on Jam Rock at Keystone and Dirt Merchant at Whistler because I'm counting on the tunability to make up for air vs coil.
    I may be too late to the party, and this is far from a completely unbiased opinion, but considering your goals here (lighter, highly tuneable, bike park-able fork) you should take a hard look at the Manitou Mezzer Pro. As stiff as a Fox 38, under 2,000 grams, IRT system and adjustable hydraulic bottom out, travel is internally adjustable up to 180 mm (i.e., no air shaft replacement required and ships with the spacers).

    https://hayesbicycle.com/products/mezzer-1


    ETA: Summit, if you make it to SLC you are more than welcome to demo my barely-ridden 170 Mezzer.
    Last edited by Dantheman; 05-18-2020 at 02:24 PM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Mt. Baker
    Posts
    1,410
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    I may be too late to the party, and this is far from a completely unbiased opinion, but considering your goals here (lighter, highly tuneable, bike park-able fork) you should take a hard look at the Manitou Mezzer Pro. As stiff as a Fox 38, under 2,000 grams, IRT system and adjustable hydraulic bottom out, travel is internally adjustable up to 180 mm (i.e., no air shaft replacement required and ships with the spacers).

    https://hayesbicycle.com/products/mezzer-1
    . You will be hard pressed to convince anyone that anything Manipoo makes is anything other than shit.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,491
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunder View Post
    . You will be hard pressed to convince anyone that anything Manipoo makes is anything other than shit.
    That is dumb

    Their forks are nice. Even Hayes brakes are nice now.

    Just goes to show that anything that isn't sold as OEM or extremely high priced is considered "junk or unproven". Meanwhile most people aren't even talented enough to actually bike at the level of their equipment.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    9,375
    Quote Originally Posted by simple View Post
    Meanwhile most people aren't even talented enough to actually bike at the level of their equipment.
    To be fair, this is much easier if you buy crappy equipment.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    slc
    Posts
    11,764
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunder View Post
    . You will be hard pressed to convince anyone that anything Manipoo makes is anything other than shit.
    No one can deny that Manitou went through a rough patch that lasted the better part of a decade. But, they've been making great stuff for years now.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Mt. Baker
    Posts
    1,410
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    No one can deny that Manitou went through a rough patch that lasted the better part of a decade. But, they've been making great stuff for years now.
    What decade did they make good stuff? The 90ís? The 2000ís? 10ís? By my account thatís 30+ years of crap. So it would take something truely amazing to put them on par with what the top offerings from Fox or SRAM are these days. Not to mention the support either of those brands have where you can walk into any shop anywhere and get a service or a DIY service kit.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
    Posts
    18,165
    Manitou: A lot of DH races were won with a Dorado back in the day.

    Hayes... ugh

    On the other-than-Fox/Rockshox department: Cane Creek kicks major ass in the shock department. Their entire lineup is stellar.
    Also, the finest fork I've ever ridden is the DVO Emerald.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    slc
    Posts
    11,764
    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Manitou: A lot of DH races were won with a Dorado back in the day.

    Hayes... ugh
    Berrecloth's Roam segment, anyone? Their team also included the likes of Cam McCaul and Matt Hunter at the time.

    Dominion brakes are absolutely amazing. Clearly, nothing is going to change Gunder's mind, but I rode a Mattoc for several years and thought it was every bit as good as the Pike that came on the GG I bought last year. The current director of Hayes' bike division used to be head of R&D at Fox. I know him personally and he's absolutely committed to producing premium products that are as good or better than anything else available.

    Like I said, standing offer for a free Mezzer demo.


    ETA: Not that it matters to anyone here directly, but if it were up to RS/Fox the best kids fork you'd be able to buy is a 26" Reba with damper/spring tech that's a decade old.
    Last edited by Dantheman; 05-19-2020 at 09:28 AM.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
    Posts
    18,165
    Almost went for a used Fox 36 Grip2...

    But then I got a deal on a new DVO Diamond D1 170mm
    I'm pretty excited about that. Not a big weight saver (like 4oz) but it should be super tuneable. I'll try this weekend and report back

    Only concern is about geometry. Axle to crown:
    Helm 160: 553
    Fox 36 170: 559
    Diamond 170: 565

    Should I be worried that the diamond will be 12mm longer than the helm?
    Last edited by Summit; 05-20-2020 at 02:44 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    448
    12mm is a noticeable difference. Whether it's better for you or not, you'll have to tell us.

    The good news is, the travel of the Diamond is adjustable by adding a spacer. If you don't like the taller fork, lower it to 160mm and you'll be back.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •