View Poll Results: What size Kusala do you want/ will 189 work for you?

Voters
30. You may not vote on this poll
  • 186

    12 40.00%
  • 191

    10 33.33%
  • Want or will substitute 189 to make it happen

    16 53.33%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Results 26 to 50 of 83
  1. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    1,819
    186 Kusala measures out straight tape pull @ 184.5 cm

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    5,444
    Too short. 191 pref, 189 if it's the only way
    life ain't guaranteed, love your people while you can

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,819
    ^^^Agreed

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,661
    ^^^Yup.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    31,460
    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    186 Kusala measures out straight tape pull @ 184.5 cm
    I thought all our tips and tails were metal. Is that edged base?

    I thought they felt 1.5 cm short!

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    1,819
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    I thought all our tips and tails were metal. Is that edged base?

    I thought they felt 1.5 cm short!
    Yeah man, this metal tip motif.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    idaho panhandle!
    Posts
    7,807
    Quote Originally Posted by Kopi_Red View Post
    ^^^Yup.
    Yeep

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Missoula, MT
    Posts
    20,811
    If it's a ski for deep days only, it's gotta be at least 190.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    31,460
    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    Yeah man, this metal tip motif.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Did I ever tell you how/why that tip metal ended up there?

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,819
    Can't remember, but I like it. Tail has one too

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    1,234
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    Did I ever tell you how/why that tip metal ended up there?
    I’d love to hear the story
    Fear, Doubt, Disbelief, you have to let it all go. Free your mind!

  12. #37
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    31,460
    It was impossible for me to find guys who could edge around tips and tails. I'd seen some old Fischers that had a smaller piece of metal in the tips., so I thought it'd cure the problem of my guys being unable to do good edging. Originally started with just pieces of aluminum. Tried a few different ones, usually flat. But they would stick and then usually popped off when the metal memory would overpower the epoxy bond as the metal slowly went back to flat. The big flat pieces delammed the most, even after bending them first. I asked one of the French interns to draft a design for the tip that had didn't have as much metal but went down the sides to where the edges started to bend more abruptly into the nose. We did that piece of metal without the inserts and it still wanted to go back flat, ie, pop up and off. But by putting the plastic base inserts in the metal to where there was no contiguous metal running all the way across the entire tip, and by pre-bending them, there wasn't enough strength in the metal memory to overcome the epoxy bond. We had to trial and error a lot of stuff, especially the carbon fiber, and make a lot of mistakes to do shit no other indies have ever done. But the look will always rule and I know of many guys who plowed those tips straight into rocks at high speed and were blown away with the strength they had.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    69
    Must. Look. Away...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #39
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    31,460
    I can't tell whose votes haven't been cast because they're on cell phones....

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    1,234

    Revised Kusala Size Poll

    191, would buy 189 - I was in a spot where I wasn’t sure I would have a job going forward, but that literally just got resolved today! So I am fully in if this goes forward! FKNA!! Splat thanks for the stories man, always love the insight to what goes on inside the industry, I’ve always wondered why so many companies opt for non full wrap edges, always kind of assumed it was more related to costs. Good stuff!
    Fear, Doubt, Disbelief, you have to let it all go. Free your mind!

  16. #41
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    31,460
    Bending edges around tips and tails is difficult. Keith has his way of doing it and it works very well. When we were building in the factory in Quebec, they had a electric detempering table where you'd clamp an edge on a flat piece of metal, step on a floor pedal and it would turn the edge red hot, taking the stiffness out of it and make it pliable enough to bend easily around a ski template. Just ending an edge and not having anything in the tips and tails is def a lot cheaper construction and makes the build faster. But the metal in the tips and tails on the Bros, Lhasas, and Kusalas also did double duty as vibration sinks on the pure carbon layups. There was def a lot more going on in the skis than any other indie brands but it was difficult because every extra enhancement you add is another potential point to fail.

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    1,234

    Revised Kusala Size Poll

    Yeah, I wonder how many folks tried and realized they didn’t have the potential or seriousness to truly understand how tough this business really is to create any sort of profit margin for a quality product, or for that matter the amount of expertise and attention to detail it takes to deliver said quality product? Shitty that there’s such a small amount of us that really appreciate that kind of craftsmanship. While I do appreciate that non price prohibited vacationers feed our industry, they continually drive folks like me out of the sport by their sheer willingness to pay for the exclusivity, and sadly could care less about these types of indies that wholeheartedly “build skis for skiers”. I will remain optimistic and continue to support folks like Keith and yourself (even though you’re not currently in the biz technically, you obviously still are) and others who do so as much as I possibly can. That said, what is the decision on the general consensus, is this project going to happen!???
    Fear, Doubt, Disbelief, you have to let it all go. Free your mind!

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    1,834
    My $0.02 is that, if there will only be one run, keep the proven 186 length. Also makes it a more versatile touring option than a longer ski.

    Questions:

    What’s the thought on price point?

    Other than the potential length change, are there any anticipated changes? Layup? Top sheet? Etc?

    Hybrid or carbon layup?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    "...if you're not doing a double flip cork something, skiing spines in Haines, or doing double flip cork somethings off spines in Haines, you're pretty much just gaping."

  19. #44
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    31,460
    Well, certainly looking for this to go forward. In a couple weeks, Keith and I will talk again and put up a buy page on his website if it looks like we'll get 25 orders. I personally like the thought of the 189. It's a small enough change to make that nothing would be lost in translation in the CAD. Sidecut and dims can be easily adjusted to the length and it would serve possibly enough people's needs to move the project forward. Hold out and stick with 186 most likely means it would probably never happen. Price point is $750 and $50 cheaper than the price point on his advanced build custom prices on his website. That's for a whole new ski to build from scratch for Keith and for a very limited run. Keith doesn't do pure carbon. His basic ski is glass and he has a variety of options he offers to make a lighter weight ski. The Kusala is stiff by design. It has a 12 mm thick core, which, though standard for a lot of companies, was the thickest core I ever used. They won't have tip and tail metal, you can have a hybrid with carbon. Topsheet will be taken from the Kusala artwork I still have and Keith will diecut Praxis in the base.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    755
    Sick!

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    1,234

    Revised Kusala Size Poll

    FKNA
    Thanks Splat!!!
    Fear, Doubt, Disbelief, you have to let it all go. Free your mind!

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    1,834
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    Well, certainly looking for this to go forward. In a couple weeks, Keith and I will talk again and put up a buy page on his website if it looks like we'll get 25 orders. I personally like the thought of the 189. It's a small enough change to make that nothing would be lost in translation in the CAD. Sidecut and dims can be easily adjusted to the length and it would serve possibly enough people's needs to move the project forward. Hold out and stick with 186 most likely means it would probably never happen. Price point is $750 and $50 cheaper than the price point on his advanced build custom prices on his website. That's for a whole new ski to build from scratch for Keith and for a very limited run. Keith doesn't do pure carbon. His basic ski is glass and he has a variety of options he offers to make a lighter weight ski. The Kusala is stiff by design. It has a 12 mm thick core, which, though standard for a lot of companies, was the thickest core I ever used. They won't have tip and tail metal, you can have a hybrid with carbon. Topsheet will be taken from the Kusala artwork I still have and Keith will diecut Praxis in the base.
    So, is the final product anticipated to be a praxis ski with the kusala shape? Or a reproduction of the kusala with a few tweaks? Splat, will you be involved in the build? I got to demo the kusalas years ago but didn’t have the financial ability to purchase (sigh, life is all about timing, isn’t it?). That ski was incredible. Would love to get my hands on it.
    "...if you're not doing a double flip cork something, skiing spines in Haines, or doing double flip cork somethings off spines in Haines, you're pretty much just gaping."

  23. #48
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    31,460
    As stated above, it's the Kusala elongated 3 cm, built by Praxis, using Praxis technology and no, I can't even get epoxy on my finger without my throat wanting to swell shut, so I won't be building them. Prolly ain't ever gonna be skis built like we did them at pm gear. Everyone has their own way, their machines making their process unique to them and not very many people want to try to master the use of carbon fiber in wet layup. It's such whack mad science shit that the trial and error costs are unsustainable unless you have millions of dollars and lots of engineers. But the Kusala is a pretty cut and dried shape and because it's stiff as hell there won't be much problem reproducing the flex and if there's one thing Keith knows well it's reverse camber. I will be invovled as much as I can without inhaling epoxy fumes. I also just got Pierre's email address, he designed the Kusala, and I'll be talking to him about where it's going.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Nottingham, UK
    Posts
    951
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_pretzel View Post
    Ugh still annoyed at that mount.

    I obviously shouldn’t care that the heel piece is slightly of center, about 3mm. Right?
    mr_pretzel, have you thought about asking Keith/Pat to print a centreline down the topsheet for ease of mounting?
    Last edited by Spyderjon; 06-18-2020 at 07:33 AM.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    755
    Quote Originally Posted by Spyderjon View Post
    mr_pretzel, have you thought about asking Keith/Pat to print a centreline down the topsheet for ease of mounting?
    haha

    Actually they should just come pre-drilled for pivots at 293mm. Oki, thx, bai

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