"Mountain Biking" with a 1 year old - an FYI / TR thread for the curious

[SchralphMacchio]

Summary:


-I've spent the last 4-5 months messing around with getting my now-16 month old kid on my mountain bike and finally have something I feel is workable for the both of us using the iBert Safe-T Seat, so here's my story.
-Yes, this is possible and reasonable to do, and I've found it can be pretty fun for both ... on extremely tame smooth trails or dirt/gravel paths ... but no-go on even beginner-intermediate difficulty trails.
-Fit/interference issues on stem-mounted seats has been a complete f'ing nightmare on modern geometry bikes ... it took me a long while and several failed cycles of measuring then ordering shit until I could get things to fit ... basically with 20mm minimum extra steer tube, 60mm minimum stem (ideally 70mm), and a riser bar with as much rise as you can find/stomach.
-The kid gets bucked around super easily so I've been learning to *carefully* manage not just speed and obstacles but also acceleration, deceleration, even braking techniques ... as they get stronger you can add a tiny more speed and excitement.
-I don't think I'll be able to do any semi-legitimate trail rides with her until she's old enough / strong enough for a Shotgun-style top-tube seat (the manufacturers claim 2 years but my wife seems to think that 3 is a lot safer, what does she know she's just a pediatrician) where they hold on to the handlebar with their own strength and there is no safety harness involved ... so it might have made sense to just wait since that solution comes with a lot less headaches, but then again that's giving up at least 1 year of bike rides, which is an eon. Plus the kids can often start doing smooth city / paved rides as young as 9 months, so getting the iBert and an extra stem-mount for your city bike can yield lots of fun time!

See more details below.


Thule Yepp Next Mini (not an out-of-the-box solution for MTB):


My brother came to visit when my daughter (first / only kid right now) was four months old with an awesome birthday gift - a Thule Yepp Next Mini bike seat. My daughter was barely learning to gum an avocado at that time but the wheels in my head started turning.

So a quick overview on this seat. The seat itself looks sick when you first handle it. The 5-point harness is top notch, the height of the seat looks really protective, the seat frame is lightweight EPF foam but mechanically sound. The thing is confidence inspiring within the horrifying thought of taking a fall with your precious cargo strapped in. The seat clips into a clamp adapter that bolts onto your steer tube, preferably over a single 25mm spacer, or spacers that add up to 22-25 mm. It's got a spring-loaded latch to release so it's very easy to connect the seat to the adapter and remove it. It's a fairly sound connection but somewhat rattly.

Pro's
-Awesome seat design and construction
-5 point harness is easy to clip in and very secure

Con's
-Fit, fit, fit. This thing is just not made for mountain bikes.


Right before she turned 9 months old and was already pulling to stand and cruising furniture I figured she was ready, so we bought her the smallest head circumference helmet I could find, a Schwinn Teddy Bear helmet and we did a round-the-block test ride at home before heading to Crater Lake for car-free day on East Rim Drive. She loved the seat but it still took me another couple of months before I could figure out how to get it on my mountain bike.

Fit Issues

However the seat's adapter that clamps onto the steer tube is really silly and starts presenting issues. First, the thing was designed for road bike quill stem diameters, Thule says 20-28mm diameters. Secondly, the stack height of this thing is about 20mm, Thule says you need 21mm clearance. The clamp includes a reversible shim set that tweaks the angle to compensate for various head tube angles. Here are some of the immediate problems on a threadless headset steer tube:
-Bolts included aren't long enough to use the shim pair on steer tube spacers ... can't get proper headset preload if you clamp with shims directly onto the steer tube ... you can clamp onto the spacers without using the shim pair, which is what I did.
-Interference between stem and seat adapter if you have a relatively short stem, 35mm bars, etc.


The next issue is the foot stirrups. If you run the seat adapter below the stem, the foot stirrups can interfere with your fork crown! At this early point in time it didn't occur to me to try to source longer bolts and using the angled shims to see if I could have kicked back enough room to mount the seat adapter with a more slack angle. So I decided to try to adapter above the stem.



I ended up getting a 1.5" diameter top cap to prevent the seat from flying off the top if it loosened, and also cutting off the bottom inch of the stirrup posts to get some clearance in there. Then I gave er a go.


The setup was workable but I had all kinds of issues on my side of the fit equation. Her helmet was in my chin, and the top of her seat was almost up in my chest. This is on a 455 mm reach bike for a size Medium! The slack head angle and high adapter mount kicked everything too far back and too high up for comfort. I didn't have good handling of the bike because I couldn't get good weight on the bars.

I ended up trying this out for a few rides but just feeling less in control as she got heavier and bigger. I tried to get the seat adapter back under the stem but it was a mess with 35mm diameter bar interfering and having no good solution confirmed for the stirrup-crown interference.

So I just gave up on this seat for the MTB. Too bad, because I still dig how this thing works out on our city bike.
There's a bunch of similar complaints and some limited success stories with this seat on MTBR: https://forums.mtbr.com/families-rid...k-1073863.html

Around this same time, my buddy told me his kid had outgrown his iBert seat, so he loaned it to me for a tryout ...

[SchralphMacchio]

iBert Safe-T Seat


The iBert is the only other solution I've seen that gets a one year old onto the front of the bike with a decent harness. I was able to make this work but it wasn't a slam dunk, there are definitely fit challenges as well. The seat attaches to the steer tube using a clamp adapter installed *over* 20mm of plastic or composite spacers, attached below the stem. The seat has a metal plate and slider channel that slides onto the adapter, and then a cotter pin locks everything in place. More details listed in Fit Issues below.

Pro's
-My baby loves the steering wheel on this. She spins it around and makes racecar noises. Awesome. (yes I know stirrup/footcups are missing from these pics, I've since gotten a hold of these)


-The leg trays on this make it harder for your kid to pull her feet out of the stirrups while riding, which is great because it prevents an empty shoe flying down the trail or roadway.
-The leg trays are angled further up and out of the way of your frame and fork, so no interference there - which is really the big win for me.

Con's
-The 3 point harness isn't super secure, the shoulder straps can droop off to the side of the arms pretty easily and the Y design means the harness doesn't provide much safety for forward inertia sudden braking - more prevents your kid from unplanned ejection from the seat.
-The seat rattles around a bit with a lot of flex - it's not a sturdy as the Yepp.
-You don't really want to just pull off the seat, leaving the adapter on the stem to go ride. That thing will impale your leg or chest in a crash. No bueno. I've found it's best to just loosen the bolts, and spin it around under the handlebar, which you can do if you have a riser bar and/or riser stem.


Fit Issues
1) You need an extra 20mm of spacers, and they have to be plastic or composite or else there will not be enough friction in the system and the clamp adapter will spin around. The clamp squeezes onto the spacer, which pinches onto the steer tube. If you try to attach the clamp directly to the steer tube, the angle of departure causes the clamp to interfere with most pinch bolts on most stems, so you won't be able to get proper vertical preload before tightening everything up.
2) The minimum stem length is 60mm to be able to attach the seat or else it will interfere with the bars before you can get the cotter pin secured to the clamp adapter.
- and at that stem length, and using a flat or low-rise bar, it's quite tricky and can be dangerous getting your kid into and out of the seat because there is little to no room between the top of the leg trays and the handlebar. The danger is you could sprain your kid's ankle or possibly even break a leg getting them out of the seat because there would be so little room between the handlebar and the leg tray.

^ 60mm stem and 10mm rise bar - not much room above the leg tray, brake lever cable bumps into seat, possibly your dropper cable as well.

3) I recommend a 70mm stem with a little bit of rise (~5-10 degrees), or an 80mm straight or riser stem. There is no penalty for going longer, just shitty handling of course. With an 80mm stem you have access to all 3 mounting holes for the cotter pin - with a 70mm you have access to 2 mounting holes, with a 60mm you have access to just the first mounting hole which puts your kid's helmet closest to your body.
4) Also, you should combine this with a 30mm rise bar to provide good clearance for your kid's legs.

The crappy thing about this, is because of the longer stem and higher rise I ended up going with narrower 740mm bars (vs 780 bars / 40mm stem I was running before). When I'm not riding with my baby, the bike is a lot less fun to ride and the steering sucks compared to the old setup. Oh well, can't have everything ...

That's it. Overall I find the seat works, and each time we ride I see she can handle bumps and small stepdowns a with less bobble and more core/neck strength on her part. So far so good.





Riding Lessons Learned
This part has been really interesting.

Some lessons have been obvious:
-Sharp step downs are really violent for a small and young kid. I'm basically walking everything (roots, rocks, etc) that is curb-sized or bigger. We are just getting to the point where I can slowly and softly roll off a curb and I can see her neck muscles working to minimize the bobble and it's okay. But when we first started riding a few months ago it was pretty frightening seeing the big whiplash off most roots etc. So I've started way slow, walk if I'm not confident she can handle it, and just slowly observe her progress in strength to handle small obstacles.

Some have been less obvious:
-Speed is not a problem, high speed cornering is not a problem (it loads the kid centripetally) ... obviously, sudden braking / sudden steering is a problem ... but the big surprise was sudden *release* of braking. Don't do it! Her head whips back if I let off the brakes instantly vs. easing off of them!
-Big rollers are really tough on the kid - lots of forward and backward motion for them as the bike accelerates off the top and then decelerates climbing out over the next one. I have to do these really really slowly.
-I need to order an oval chainring ... bob had never been an issue concerning me, until I could see my kid's head go front-to-back etc. as I grunted my way up a steep grade. I think the chainring will really help settle the bike for her.

Small chatter hasn't been an issue, I just watch her head bobble and talk/joke with her while we go over gravel. Plus tires / super soft suspension tuning would help here for sure.


Anyways, I hope this lengthy post has been helpful for any newborn moms and dads thinking about getting the kid outside ... cheers and happy trails!

[Shredhead]

Bravo.

I had two, so I wore the wheels off a Burly trailer and then a tandem Adams Trail-a bike.

[carlh]

When they are a bit older the mac-ride is fun.

[sethschmautz]

Beginner trails are possible with the iBert. You can climb some pretty steep stuff with all of that weight out front - you don't have to worry about tipping over backwards. After taking #1 all over the place in that thing I sort of mellowed out for #2 and #3. We still rode/ride but I'm a little more careful. I want them to have a long riding career.

Suspension is key for making the trip enjoyable on the iBert or Mac-Ride on trails, but I've got the MR working on my full suss, HT, fat bike and road bike. Lots of options for going riding and #3 really enjoys the variety.

Enjoy! It is a blast bring able to ride with your kids right there with you and talk to them while you are out.

Seth

I'll find some of my favorite pictures and post later. Good info!

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[Gunder]

I started my son off in an Ibert and very quickly switched him over to a macridemore. The macridemore is way more fun for both of us, and you can actually ride some pretty interesting trails with it too. It has also really helped him to improve on the push bikes too as with the macridemore they see what you do and are steering right along with you.

[406]

I got a shotgun bike seat a few weeks ago and kid 2 (2 yrs) loves it. I mostly got it so we can ride and keep up with kid 1 (4 yrs) who is pedaling. Kid 2 is still on her strider bike and the problem is she has lost interest in balance bike and only wants to ride on my bike...which is why I was reluctant getting one of these seats originally.

[SchralphMacchio]

Bump. Finally updated 2nd Post on how the iBert seat has worked out, and fit issues.

Also, I recently met a guy at the local trails who was hauling a 2 year old on the rear (via a Thule Yepp Maxi seat tube clamp seat) and a 4 year old on a Trail a Bike. The Thule was mounted to the top bit of the seat tube (yikes!) and the Trail a Bike mounted to the seat post. Imagine the torque on this thing when the 4 year old doesn't pedal ...
Attachment 329621

[gramboh]

Wow impressive dedication Schralph... attachment of jank setup not showing on my mobile at least.

What age are you guys finding your kids are capable of the Macride at? My kid is 21mos but he is massive, like 33lbs and 35ish inches tall already. I have a 465mm reach bike but am not sure how well he’s gonna fit especially as I don’t fully trust him to hold onto the bars yet, maybe in 3-6 months. It’s not cheap either.

He has a Spawn Tengu 12” run bike and is starting to take an interest in it lately around the neighborhood for a block or two, not really coasting yet but it’s a start.

[Dshack89]

My daughter is 17 months and on the smaller side (23ish pounds) and does great on the macride. We stick to easy smooth trails of course.

I also spent a lot of time upfront practicing with her getting on and off and learning what "2 hands" means.

[t.odd]

Wow impressive dedication Schralph... attachment of jank setup not showing on my mobile at least.

What age are you guys finding your kids are capable of the Macride at? My kid is 21mos but he is massive, like 33lbs and 35ish inches tall already. I have a 465mm reach bike but am not sure how well he’s gonna fit especially as I don’t fully trust him to hold onto the bars yet, maybe in 3-6 months. It’s not cheap either.

He has a Spawn Tengu 12” run bike and is starting to take an interest in it lately around the neighborhood for a block or two, not really coasting yet but it’s a start.

Jr. t.odd is 21 months and we've had him on the macride since mid-March, I've got it set up on my Samurai65 and he's totally good holding onto the bars. I've taken him out for hour long rides on it, he loves it. He's about 30 pounds and we mostly just stick to easy flat trails along the dikes, some roots and rocks here and there. I'm lucky, a friend passed his on to us to use. On the macride he's always pointing at things and trying to tell me were to go, which hasn't translated well onto his strider when he's the one holding onto the bars...lol

[Gunder]

Wow impressive dedication Schralph... attachment of jank setup not showing on my mobile at least.

What age are you guys finding your kids are capable of the Macride at? My kid is 21mos but he is massive, like 33lbs and 35ish inches tall already. I have a 465mm reach bike but am not sure how well he’s gonna fit especially as I don’t fully trust him to hold onto the bars yet, maybe in 3-6 months. It’s not cheap either.

He has a Spawn Tengu 12” run bike and is starting to take an interest in it lately around the neighborhood for a block or two, not really coasting yet but it’s a start.

I had Stian on the Mac ride at 18 months. Maybe it was even a bit earlier. If you have a kiddo pump track nearby I found him watching other kids 1-2 years older really helped him progress on his push bike.

[SchralphMacchio]

Maybe my 17 month old kid is a little behind ... but there is no way my wife will let her on an unharnessed seat like the Macride or Shotgun in the next 2 months.

She’s also about 23 lbs even and doesn’t really know many verbal commands yet.