Ahmaud Arbery

[Danno]

yeah, I used it once a while back, and I thought it was obvious that I was using it from the perspective of the crackers. I have not seen anyone use it in a way that indicated that is how they truly would have referred to Mr. Arbery.

[happytimefunbox]

No. no. no.
I’m talking about the scenario of being confronted by armed men... like if you’re on a surf trip in Sinaloa, or in a business getting robbed, or some militia fuckwits confront you about running through their neighborhood...and how to best get out of that scenario alive. I think the posted point of view from the mseries troll jong that the best way to deal with that is to ignore commands and fight for your life is pure stupid, at least as a default approach (there’s a time and place for everything). So I said, to the mseries troll jong: go fistfight some guys with guns then, retard. See how it goes for you.

As far as Arbery and his fight response, I wrote what I think: I think his best shot at staying alive was to either sprint the fuck out of there or stop relax and submit, but also 2 really important buts:
1) but we’ll never know what was said and who started the fight phase of the confrontation
2) but regardless of anything else, the decisions he made were made fast and under huge duress, and the fight response is totally understandable to me. I could easily see myself making that mistake in that scenario.

The concept of of blame as a dichotomy between “blame” or “blameless” is a childish distortion of how human beings relate and behave in these kinds of incidents. All of this came up because the narrative of “he was shot for jogging” makes it seem like these guys were just hanging out all their lives waiting for a random black guy to run past. While possible, I guess, that seems cartoonishly far-fetched.

I think we’re going to find these parties had a history. I bet he’s known to cops and prosecutors in that small town. I bet stuff had been getting stolen and then this ex cop sees Arbery, who he knows, checking out the neighborhood and that’s what the confrontation was all about. Not “hey a black guy, let’s go hunt him down for jogging”

Still murder, it’s just a more personal and specific motive...not the “random black people can’t safely jog for fear of random white people hunting them for their blackness” narrative. Which imho makes more sense and should relieve at least a little of the anxiety about a world where white guys are sitting around with rifles just hoping a black guy runs past.

I do not give a fuck what white boy filter you want to apply to it after the fact
I qouted what you said.
You statements early in this thread are very poor representation on the yetiman I met in IRL and read here for years
And I would say that to your face

[Ted Striker]

I was going to say basically the same thing but a little differently. It’s 2 things:

-3 guys arm themselves, jump in their trucks and chase down a man and shoot him to death. Because they feel they can.

- Does Georgia law allow this?

Two guys, father and son. The third guy (claims he) was a bystander.

The legal aspect has been covered by multiple Monday morning quarterbacks upthread, and the consensus is arming themselves? ok. chasing? maybe. attempting to apprehend? no, and no for everything thereafter.

repost of skinny_kid's link: https://arcdigital.media/the-ahmaud-...w-72ebb5c7643b

[Game Over]

From twits

“You don't need to prove Burglary 2. You just have to have a reasonable suspicion. As a former prosecutor, I can meet that standard with 'guy enters someone else's structure, snoops around for 5 min, and then flees when spotted' any day of the week.”

“Those demanding "lynching" murder charges have to deal with video-taped facts: #Arbery grabbing a gun by the barrel, lifting the barrel of a loaded gun toward his own body, jerking at it in a manner that may have caused it to go off, while assaulting the gun's holder.”

“Georgia law allows for a) citizens arrest, b) show of force to restrain, c) right of self-defense & d) reasonable force if restraint unsuccessful, whenever a person either witnesses criminal conduct, or witnesses flight from a felony they have reasonable suspicion occurred.”

[AdironRider]

That means fuck all (like twitter) because trespassing isn't a felony, which is the requirement for the GA citizens arrest law.

[Game Over]

You don't need to complete a theft to commit burglary. Just enter with an intent to steal or commit another felony.

https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia...section-16-7-1

[Art Shirk]

From twits

“You don't need to prove Burglary 2. You just have to have a reasonable suspicion. As a former prosecutor, I can meet that standard with 'guy enters someone else's structure, snoops around for 5 min, and then flees when spotted' any day of the week.”

“Those demanding "lynching" murder charges have to deal with video-taped facts: #Arbery grabbing a gun by the barrel, lifting the barrel of a loaded gun toward his own body, jerking at it in a manner that may have caused it to go off, while assaulting the gun's holder.”

“Georgia law allows for a) citizens arrest, b) show of force to restrain, c) right of self-defense & d) reasonable force if restraint unsuccessful, whenever a person either witnesses criminal conduct, or witnesses flight from a felony they have reasonable suspicion occurred.”

You present this as "from twits" so you don't have to own it as your position despite the fact that there is no other reason to post it here.

Of course some good ol boy prosecutor has an angle to claim this wasnt cold blooded and calculated murder. Doesn't make him any less of a moron or any more correct.

[Core Shot]

https://arcdigital.media/the-ahmaud-...w-72ebb5c7643b

I think this is a pretty good rundown of the case as it pertains to GA law. It would probably clear up some questions around here.

Good post. But 14 years and 628 posts and you wade into this shit flinging swamp thread?

I was shocked by the state of the law in Georgia. As a retired lawyer, this blows my mind.

====================
It’s murder or nothing
Georgia does not have meaningful degrees for the murder of adults. If you intend to kill someone, or if you are committing any felony at all when you kill them, it is capital murder. And that list of felonies includes, bizarrely enough, aggravated assault. That means that in any case where you have a weapon, and the victim is aware of that weapon, and the victim dies, you are guilty of murder. “Malice” murder is basically vestigial, because in Georgia, prosecutors never need to prove intent to kill.

And of course, even where malice is an element, a jury is entitled to find that you intend to kill a person you shoot three times. They can infer that you intended “the natural consequences of your actions.”
I want to be clear that this felony murder workaround is kind of terrible. I often talk to jurors who believe that a defendant was not fully culpable for a killing and think they have cut him a break by opting for felony murder, rather than malice murder. Little do they know that it’s a life sentence either way.

Because the McMichaels pointed guns at the victim and the victim was aware of those guns, they committed aggravated assault. And because the victim died in the course of that felony, it’s felony murder. There is also an argument for false imprisonment or aggravated battery as felony murder predicates, albeit weaker than for aggravated assault.
But voluntary manslaughter is unlikely to be the result at trial because Georgia reserves that reduced charge exclusively for “sudden, violent, or irresistible passion,” which frequently means a suspicion that someone’s significant other is cheating on them. It would more accurately be called “womanslaughter,” because that is its major purpose.
For instance, when a defendant was shot in the leg and then killed his assailant, the Supreme Court of Georgia said he was not entitled to a voluntary manslaughter instruction because “the provocation necessary to support a charge of voluntary manslaughter is markedly different from that which will support a self-defense claim.” There are dozens more cases in the same direction, helping to establish, for instance, that “Fighting prior to a homicide ‘does not constitute the type of provocation that would warrant a charge of voluntary manslaughter.’”
A cautious judge might charge the jury on voluntary manslaughter just to avoid having the issue on appeal. But typically, the fear that someone might grab a weapon that you are pointing at them is not enough for that reduction. If the trial court opts not to give the charge of voluntary manslaughter, that decision will almost certainly be upheld.
If someone suggests “second-degree murder” they are clueless
Georgia does have a second-degree murder law, but it applies solely to people who negligently kill children:
A person commits the offense of murder in the second degree when, in the commission of cruelty to children in the second degree, he or she causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.
If you see a legal commentator mention second-degree murder, you should immediately disregard everything else they say about this case. And most other cases too. Anyone who googles “murder statute Georgia” will have a better understanding of this law than whomever thinks second-degree murder could apply here.

[glademaster]

Good post. But 14 years and 628 posts and you wade into this shit flinging swamp thread?

Skinny_kid has the cred to wade into any thread he wants around here. Take a lap.

[Game Over]

You present this as "from twits" so you don't have to own it as your position despite the fact that there is no other reason to post it here.

Of course some good ol boy prosecutor has an angle to claim this wasnt cold blooded and calculated murder. Doesn't make him any less of a moron or any more correct.

I’m not owning shit. It’s the law. I didn’t write it.

One can disagree with the law, but that is an argument for public policy change-> many are simply pretending the law doesn't exist to prosecute people whose conduct stayed within it.

[Ted Striker]

I’m not understanding shit.

FIFY

[Game Over]

No i understand perfectly. Georgia has some fucked up laws.

[Art Shirk]

I’m not owning shit. It’s the law. I didn’t write it.

It's not the law, its an interpretation of the law. And you posted it as fact, tacitly agreeing to the interpretation. And like I said, I expected you wouldn't own it, because you are fine with believing it but don't want the stink that comes along with it.

[Ted Striker]

Many people say...

[Danno]

Y'all would enjoy threads a whole lot better if you just put him on ignore (and please don't quote him). He exists here just to stir up shit and get people to argue with him.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I’m shocked at the number of pussy, racist white men that participate here. It’s like they’re not even trying to disguise their racism or they try and make some argument about this kid that was murdered not acting the right way or some other bullshit. This was a human being murdered in broad daylight on a residential street by a couple of mouth breathers. To make some argument that’s other than this being a senseless, premeditated murder is moronic. The intent was there the moment the picked up their guns and gave chase. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves, you know who you are. Despicable.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Game Over]

One would hope. But I am extremely pessimistic and have zero faith in the system when it comes to these type of crimes.

I have zero faith

Y'all would enjoy threads a whole lot better if you just put him on ignore (and please don't quote him). He exists here just to stir up shit and get people to argue with him.

Don’t mind Danno. He is just bitter about being completely wrong about Flynn. It must suck to be consistently owned by a stupid redneck farmer.

FWIW ignoring me won’t change reality. It just strengthens the confirmation bias circle jerk.

[Ted Striker]

^^^ who are you talking about?

[Ted Striker]

and about those tweets...

re: the first tweet, it doesn’t matter. Arbery isn’t going to be on trial, so a retired prosecutor’s opinion on his chances of making any charge stick to Arbery in court isn’t particularly relevant.


re: the second tweet, that guy’s a worse fake lawyer than I am.

by actual Georgia Criminal Attorney:
Georgia does not have meaningful degrees for the murder of adults. If you intend to kill someone, or if you are committing any felony at all when you kill them, it is capital murder. And that list of felonies includes, bizarrely enough, aggravated assault. That means that in any case where you have a weapon, and the victim is aware of that weapon, and the victim dies, you are guilty of murder.

Because the McMichaels pointed guns at the victim and the victim was aware of those guns, they committed aggravated assault. And because the victim died in the course of that felony, it’s felony murder.

re: the third tweet, neither of the McMichaels witnessed anything other than a black man running down the street. No crime was committed within their presence, nor did either of them have immediate knowledge that a crime had been committed. They can claim citizen's arrest, but unless one of those conditions is met it's not likely to succeed (in my notalawyer opinion, of course)

Also re: the third tweet,
Actual lawyer, licensed in GA

anyone who took the bar in GA knows that you can't claim self defense with lethal force if you initiated pursuit.

Another actual lawyer:

More applicable law: Patel v. State, 279 Ga. 750, 620 SE 2d 343 (2005), citing Carter v. State, 269 Ga. 891, 894(7), 506 S.E.2d 124 (1998):

Although a private person may make a citizen's arrest under OCGA § 17-4-60, only force that is reasonable under the circumstances may be used to restrain the individual arrested. . . the use of unreasonable force. . . could not have been part of a legitimate citizen's arrest.

[Adolf Allerbush]

^^^ who are you talking about?

Flynn? Is that the character in Tron?


Flynn was a 'user' bro...not a program!

[Boissal]

Y'all would enjoy threads a whole lot better if you just put him on ignore (and please don't quote him). He exists here just to stir up shit and get people to argue with him.

Truth. Whenever he ventures out of Polyass the ignore function is a blessing. Gentlecunt farmer drivel is not something anyone should be exposed to...

[TBS]

If you stop responding to Steep, you rob him of the thing he desires most

[Core Shot]

If you stop responding to Steep, you rob him of the thing he desires most

Not sure about that. I’ve seen five six posts unanswered or quoted. As if he’s talking to himself.

I have an employee that talks to himself.

Recently a co worker told me it’s a goat in his head that he talks to.
I hope doesn’t snap.

[Danno]

ah, steep is talking to a goat in his head. That will make me appreciate the "This message is hidden because steepconcrete is on your ignore list." so much more.

[XXX-er]

there is a youtoob out of a white guy taking a selfie of himself running with a tv to see if he can get shot or arrested and so apparently not, duno if it was in georgia