Onyx Hub opinions

[jqualls]

What's the collective say about these hubs. Maybe my search sucks but I cant find much. Mainly looking for first hand knowledge on function and durability of both the classic and Vesper. I can evaluate the weight and price.

[grinch]

Interested as well. I hear lots of good things. Bombproof and instant engagement. Sound like the perfect hub for an eeb. Local shop owner swears by them

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[rideit]

Bombproof, silent, heavy.

[grinch]

Oh ya silent. Didnt mention the weight as op said he has those stats. They are machined down and lighter now and competitive. Depends what your after. The big thing is the strongest freehub mechanism

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[toast2266]

I've tried them a bit. The instant engagement is legit. They're kind of ridiculously heavy - ~180 grams heavier than a DT 240, which is a shitload for unsprung mass.

There's also an argument to be made that instant engagement hubs make your suspension feel like shit, but I'm not sure that's functionally any different on the Onyx than with any high engagement hub.

[grinch]

240's are quite light. I think you put up all the hub weights last year. I put that somewhere but cant remember where/classic. I guess 350's and hope pro4 would split the difference in weight?

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[toast2266]

240's are quite light. I think you put up all the hub weights last year. I put that somewhere but cant remember where/classic. I guess 350's and hope pro4 would split the difference in weight?

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I think most of the common high end rear hubs are in the 250 - 320g range. I think Chris Kings are the heaviest of the common hubs at around 320g. The new lighter Onyx's are still around 415 grams.

[grinch]

Ok ya 30+% heavier is a bit unless you really need their functions. I can only imagine how shitty a rohloff would feel on a suspension bike. Eons ago i had a sachs 3x9 internal geared hub(i think it was sachs?) On my og spesh stumpy fs. Pivots worn out in a month and it was like a 3" travel metal bucket of bolts with a 5lb weight attached to it with an absolute pos rear fox air shock. The shit going on at the rear of that bike faaaar outweighed any advantage suspension would give. That lead weight hub was a big(biggest?) Part of that but that was an extreme case

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[toast2266]

Ok ya 30+% heavier is a bit unless you really need their functions. I can only imagine how shitty a rohloff would feel on a suspension bike. Eons ago i had a sachs 3x9 internal geared hub(i think it was sachs?) On my og spesh stumpy fs. Pivots worn out in a month and it was like a 3" travel metal bucket of bolts with a 5lb weight attached to it with an absolute pos rear fox air shock. The shit going on at the rear of that bike faaaar outweighed any advantage suspension would give. That lead weight hub was a big(biggest?) Part of that but that was an extreme case

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Yeah, I spent some time on some Zerodes, which was really eye opening. The suspension on those things feels sooo good. And I'm 90% sure that's mostly because there's so much less weight around the hub - there's no cassette, and no rear derailleur. It's made me pay a little more attention to keeping unsprung weight down when possible.

[gravitylover]

If you're not in a rush there will be another silent hub on the market soon. It will cost a lot less. Sorry, can't talk more about the details yet.

[jqualls]

Bombproof is my main concern and if anyone notices a negative impact on suspension since they would be used on a full squish. The silent factor is what grabbed my attention but silent and instant engagement is useless if they dont function or leave me stranded on a trail.

[Dantheman]

Yeah, I spent some time on some Zerodes, which was really eye opening. The suspension on those things feels sooo good. And I'm 90% sure that's mostly because there's so much less weight around the hub - there's no cassette, and no rear derailleur. It's made me pay a little more attention to keeping unsprung weight down when possible.

Your Zerode reviews make me sad in the pants. So much win happening with those bikes and the Pinion still manages to render it all moot. The Pinion isn't it, but your experience makes me convinced that gearbox bikes are the future. Gearbox ebikes seem obvious right now since the drag is irrelevant and they're already heavy.

[toast2266]

Bombproof is my main concern and if anyone notices a negative impact on suspension since they would be used on a full squish. The silent factor is what grabbed my attention but silent and instant engagement is useless if they dont function or leave me stranded on a trail.

DT Swiss hubs are pretty damn bombproof, while also being cheaper, lighter, and not excessively loud.

Weight issues aside, a hub's effect on suspension movement is just an inverse relationship with the hub's engagement. Higher engagement = worse suspension feel. My personal take is that 50-ish points of engagement is the sweet spot, but that'll vary depending on the suspension design and the trails you're riding.

[toast2266]

Your Zerode reviews make me sad in the pants. So much win happening with those bikes and the Pinion still manages to render it all moot. The Pinion isn't it, but your experience makes me convinced that gearbox bikes are the future. Gearbox ebikes seem obvious right now since the drag is irrelevant and they're already heavy.

Yeah. Those Zerodes are so awesome, but kind of terrible all at once. I'm too short sighted to see what the future will bring, other than I'm fairly certain that e-bikes will take over the world. Once they figure out how to package them with the motor, gearboxes make a lot of sense in that context.

[climberevan]

I have had great success over the last 25 years using the original Phil oil in freehubs to make them quiet. I hate loud hubs.

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[HAB]

Gearboxes seem like such an obvious place for electronic shifting too. They're mostly limited to grip shift right now because they need two cables in a pull/pull arrangement, but electronics would fix that. Plus you don't have the expensive gizmo hanging off the rear wheel waiting to get exploded on a rock, etc.

I think Effigear is/was working on one but I'm not sure if it ever went anywhere.

[BlueBison]

I rode one on a following for a while, it was pretty cool. It was nice not heating hub noise. To be honest, I rarely noticed the instant engagement, but I wasn’t doing any super tech climbs. Like others have said, they are fucking heavy. The weight is the only reason I’ve not built another set up, but it’s a big reason.

I now have a set of the new project 321 hubs that have left me very impressed. I have the quiet pawl option with 216 engagement points. It came pretty damn quiet, then after adding some free hub oil to it, it’s almost silent. While they’re expensive, the craftsman ship is incredible and worth the money in my opinion, if you’re able to. The front hub is nice, but nothing special.

I now have a wheel set that

[toast2266]

Gearboxes seem like such an obvious place for electronic shifting too. They're mostly limited to grip shift right now because they need two cables in a pull/pull arrangement, but electronics would fix that. Plus you don't have the expensive gizmo hanging off the rear wheel waiting to get exploded on a rock, etc.

I think Effigear is/was working on one but I'm not sure if it ever went anywhere.

Seems like the trickiest issue is that gearboxes don't like to shift under load, but all of the ebike motors I've tried continue to output power for a little bit even after you stop pedaling. So, with the current tech, you'd have to stop your pedaling for an annoyingly long time to get a shift in. I'm sure there's some sort of electronic / clutching fuckery that could fix that.

Anyways, apologies for sending this thread down the path of mopeds.

[grinch]

Oops just going to mention enviolo hubs. Eebs need cvt(continuous variable transmission) gearboxes.
New dt swiss 240's look the business for light dependable wheels. Pricey though. Havent heard much on thkse 321's. They sound sweet. Ive been running hope for a few years now with good success and theyre reasonably priced. Havent had an issue with any

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[zlatham]

Love mine, different experience w/o the noise. could offset weight penalty with other components, i dont care much. No maintenance issues, nada. Instant engagement is very nice.

[beaterdit]

Only have a little time on them on a friend's bike but it was dreamy to me. Getting sick of loud hubs. I do like quick engagement though. The Onyx has kind of a 'soft' engagement as the "sprawls" stand up and lock into place. No clunk. Weird to some but I liked it. There's plenty of discussion on the hubs and the 'soft' engagement on MTBR if you care to wade through it.

I've been advised against the new lighter weight Vesper model. Apparently they've got issues with the smaller sprag clutches slipping under high load. This is also documented over on MTBR. I'm light and likely wouldn't have a problem but don't want to take the chance. Seems they've got some stuff to work out with the new design. So I'll be building up a wheelset with their legacy hubs for my hardtail where unsprung weight won't really matter. Yes, they're heavy AF.

[ShoNuff]

^^ This soft engagement is what I like best about this hub. For tech climbing it most definitely aids is traction. A ton no, but it is noticeable. The silence definitely enhances my experience in the woods. Not only is it silent, but there is the lack of vibration from pawls buzzing through the bike. Bummer to hear about potential design issues with the vesper. I was hoping to lace some up soon. Been on DT350s, which are outstanding hubs, but looking to get back on the ONYX program.

[jqualls]

I should have been more specific. Bombproof regarding the onyx hub. I can find all the reviews and opinions I want on all the major brand hubs. I already know what 240's are. I was looking for first hand info on the Onyx. I know the noise of other major hubs can be mitigated and really is not a big issue. The clutch derailleur was a huge upgrade for several reasons but one of those was the reduction in noise and that was a game changer for me. I am intrigued by the silent hub more then anything but dont want some gimmick that doesnt function or performs like crap. Sounds like it is a solid hub functionally.

[S.B.]

I've tried them a bit. The instant engagement is legit. They're kind of ridiculously heavy - ~180 grams heavier than a DT 240, which is a shitload for unsprung mass.

There's also an argument to be made that instant engagement hubs make your suspension feel like shit, but I'm not sure that's functionally any different on the Onyx than with any high engagement hub.

Non-physicist here. Why would high engagement hubs mess with suspension? If you're not pedaling I would think that engagement wouldn't matter

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[toast2266]

Non-physicist here. Why would high engagement hubs mess with suspension? If you're not pedaling I would think that engagement wouldn't matter

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On pretty much every full suspension bike, the chainstay length gets longer as the suspension compresses. The chain interferes with that lengthening; tension on the "top" part of the chain will manifest itself as a tug on the pedals when the suspension compresses. This is pedal kickback, and it's easy to see: while off the bike, smack the rear end down. The pedals will spin backwards. Some bikes have more pedal kickback than others, and it'll be different depending on what gear you're in.

This is why you'll hear people say that your suspension works better without a chain on the bike. If you've never coasted downhill on a chainless full suspension bike, you might be surprised at how much better the suspension works. That's why a few world cup teams have experimented with a mechanism to disengage the freehub for portions of the track that don't require pedaling.

In the context of hub engagement, instantaneous engagement means *any* suspension movement is resisted by the chain. The lower the hub engagement, the more the suspension will be able to move before one of the pawls catches and engages the chain.