fancy carbon wheels... worth it? not racing

[jhyatt]

yes "foundation" which sounds like the DPS lineup? DPS=ENVE?

Enve just came out with a "cheaper" wheelset. I think about $1600?

[jhyatt]

Thought about this but I really want a wheelbuilder to do it right and at the moment the turnaround is very long at the LBS...
and... CARBON@!

OP,

Take those DT350 hubs and lace them to a nice alloy DT rim with Sapim Race equivalent spokes. If they are radially and laterally true with a good dish and tensions are equal and tight, you will have an awesome wheelset. It should cost you less than $400. It will rival an i9 wheelset. It will be better than a machine built carbon wheelset. You can argue grams, but you'll be hard pressed to notice a performance difference in a blinded test.

The industry has done a great job of convincing us that every good bike needs at least $1200 in wheels to be good.

[plugboots]

When I swapped same width Stan's to some Alchemist X-Sense, I noticed what everyone else said, quicker steering and stiffer, and I dropped a few hundred grams/wheel. I'll add that I had to rework my front suspension with more damping because of this. So...maybe I actually preferred the previous way the Stan's felt, and coulda saved some money? Not really, since I still have the quicker steering and weight savings, but there is more give in the Al, which is nice sometimes.

[VTskibum]

I'm a fan of Carbon rims, but agree that a high quality aluminum isn't missing much. I've put somewhere near 4500 miles on some Reynolds 29TR wheels, though did crack one a few years back that was replaced under warranty. Agree with the notion of better cornering stiffness for the same/similar weight. Most recent bike purchase went higher end Carbon wheels, hoping they last as long as the my previous Reynolds.

[chaka]

Thanks for all of the replies. i am keeping an eye out for nonboost used carbon wheels. If nothing else, just to upgrade something!
i am pretty light at 165# buck nekkid but pre-dump and I ride 'light' compared with some other guys.
I also hear you about getting something wider. Girth counts. like 30mm...

follow on to my earlier post, now that I know more about what your are looking for..
30mm internal width, "AM" build... 1550g. $1100
https://www.indigenouswheelco.com/pr...on-mtb-builds/

[D(C)]

I made the switch from Race Face ARC 35s that came on my bike to We Are One Agents. I don't really notice the weight difference (my WAOs are not the lightest anyway), but I did notice a bit of extra precision on my first ride on the carbon wheels, at the expense of some forgiveness. The difference is subtle, though.

The main reason I went carbon is because they stay true and don't dent (until they crack one day - but mine have a lifetime warranty that covers that). I am a serial rim denter and am also quite anal about my stuff, so I was keen to have wheels that stay round. Also, I got a good deal on the WAO rims, which are relatively inexpensive to begin with.

I don't think I would pay thousands of dollars for carbon wheels.

[plugboots]

Also, there are so many upgrades to your wheels for cheapish. I had whatever generation Mavic Ksyrium (mid level), and switched to ROL Race SL, (Al), on my road bike and it was ridiculously better. I think maybe the biggest difference was the Sapim CX ray spokes. I have those on my Alchemist Carbon now as well. Maybe there are better spokes, but I don't work in a shop, so I don't know, but...

[jackstraw]

I feel like this view is a bit dated now. These days most carbon rims seem to be more durable than alloy, not less, and most of the major name brands offer limetime warranties. The long-term cost might be a wash or even favor carbon (well, maybe not for Enve).

That said, the one pair of fancy Reynolds wheels I own I fell backwards into for a price that is borderline embarrassing. Pretty doubtful that I'd ever pay retail for them, but I also have yet to properly put them through their paces so maybe the wow factor will become apparent in the future. They're definitely a beautiful product and by all accounts burly as fuck, which is pretty amazing considering they only weigh 1,650 grams.

I agree that the stats are saying that, but real-life situations with riders I know and ride where I ride I would say that is not necessarily the case...since they've cracked their wheels. It is all about side shots here. Not casing the thing on a landing or whatever. We just have a lot of hungry sharks that tend to poke holes. And again, I wanted carbon, but it wasn't worth my potential downtime waiting for a warranty replacement.

[carlh]

I am in the wide is better camp. Haven't ridden new carbon because I am cheap but it is tempting. I am also scarred from breaking a roval carbon XC wheel in a race when I got off line in the redzone 10 years ago, but those were probably too light for me anyway. Anyone have a non-boost 29er front they want to part with, my hardtail is in need of a wider front rim now that I am riding it more.

[toast2266]

Thanks for all of the replies. i am keeping an eye out for nonboost used carbon wheels. If nothing else, just to upgrade something!
i am pretty light at 165# buck nekkid but pre-dump and I ride 'light' compared with some other guys.
I also hear you about getting something wider. Girth counts. like 30mm...

Should have mentioned earlier, but if you need non boost 27.5, I have some enve m70 hv's that I'd sell for a reasonable price. Dt swiss 240 hubs, cx ray spokes, XD driver, 6 bolt rotor.

Good shape, nothing wrong with them. Just don't have any non-boost bikes these days.

[Pauldotcom]

This difference between aluminum and carbon can be explained like this: Difference between wooden roller coaster and one on rails. Not as drastic as that, but you get the picture. If you are going to spend the money on Carbon, get something with a solid reputation. I'm pondering a set from NOBL as we speak. That, or NOX (I have those on my SS). Also, Chris King hubs or nothing! Just my 5cents

[rideit]

I have three sets of Light Bicycle/DT 240 sets, (Sapim x-rays) different widths/layups. They are hand trued,FWIW.
I have never retried any of them. With my repeat customer discount, they cost me around $900 a set shipped. I am a fan. I tried some reserves on a Hightower on some super chunky terrain in Austin, and I honestly couldn’t tell a difference. Just a point of reference, sample size of 1.

[Andeh]

I had a set of the older Light Bicycle 31.8 internals laced to DT240s on my Nomad, and am now on a set of We Are One Agents with DT 350s. The Agents actually cost me less (were $1k shipped) and I think the LBs were around $1100 with shipping & import fees. The LBs were stiff to a fault... zero compliance there. The Agents are durable and stiff, but not to a fault. They just hold whatever dumb line I pick. In between, I also rode a pair of Arc 27s and E13s, both of which I was able to knock out of true in a couple months, and both deflected more easily.

I buy carbon wheels because I can, and also because it is more durable and doesn't seem to need retrueing as often. Bad carbon feels pretty harsh. But I'm sure a good set of DT 481s would feel 95% as good as my Agents. It's just that I can afford to pay an extra $200 or so for carbon, and not worry about my wheels ever. I tried unsuccessfully to convince a friend that he'd be better off buying good alloy with good hubs than mediocre carbon, but he found a good deal on used LBs with Hopes and is happy, so that's all that matters.

[rideit]

I think the newer LB's have some compliance built in over the older ones. I'm pretty happy.

[GravityDT]

I had a set of the older Light Bicycle 31.8 internals laced to DT240s on my Nomad, and am now on a set of We Are One Agents with DT 350s. The Agents actually cost me less (were $1k shipped) and I think the LBs were around $1100 with shipping & import fees. The LBs were stiff to a fault... zero compliance there. The Agents are durable and stiff, but not to a fault. They just hold whatever dumb line I pick. In between, I also rode a pair of Arc 27s and E13s, both of which I was able to knock out of true in a couple months, and both deflected more easily.

I buy carbon wheels because I can, and also because it is more durable and doesn't seem to need retrueing as often. Bad carbon feels pretty harsh. But I'm sure a good set of DT 481s would feel 95% as good as my Agents. It's just that I can afford to pay an extra $200 or so for carbon, and not worry about my wheels ever. I tried unsuccessfully to convince a friend that he'd be better off buying good alloy with good hubs than mediocre carbon, but he found a good deal on used LBs with Hopes and is happy, so that's all that matters.

Another plug for We Are One Agents... handmade in BC vs China, LifeTime Warranty and they have been dead true since Day 1. Nice comfy but stiff ride too. Price was super reasonable. I think with Sapim XRay bladed spokes and i9 Hydra hubs it was 1400ish AND I added custom orange decals..

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[nickwm21]

I look at this comparison between Stans and Light Bicycles:

Stans Sentry 32mm - 556g - $115
LB am930 30mm - 440g - $279

You pay $330 more to save a 1/4 lb per wheel. Maybe not worth it. Add in the increased stiffness and the lack of having maintain an aluminum rim. The math makes some since...

Lacing both to DT350s you’re looking at around $500 and $800 for a wheel set respectively.

I’ve ran the same set of LBs since 2014. I cracked a sidewall and epoxied it back together in 2018. I’ll ride them again this season. I will definitely buy LBs again for my next build...


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[rideit]

LB has a $1.00 shipping deal right now, and they are blowing out some DT 240 overstock.

[Sandbox]

Should have mentioned earlier, but if you need non boost 27.5, I have some enve m70 hv's that I'd sell for a reasonable price. Dt swiss 240 hubs, cx ray spokes, XD driver, 6 bolt rotor.

Good shape, nothing wrong with them. Just don't have any non-boost bikes these days.

glad I didn’t see this before I bought a set of cheap used rims for a new build! Probably would have been tempted to grab them.

as for the OP I have Enve 60’s with 240’s that I absolutely love but they are my first carbon wheels on my first carbon bike so it’s hard to say if they are a huge improvement. I’m building a chromag stylus and grabbed some cheap dt Swiss rims but with 350’s as trying to keep on a Covid 19 induced budget....

[jacob_dbu]

LB has a $1.00 shipping deal right now, and they are blowing out some DT 240 overstock.

I know I'm so tempted...but they're still like a $800+ out the door. Plus I'm worried about shipping times to the US. How long do they usually take to arrive?

[gravitylover]

Thought about this but I really want a wheelbuilder to do it right and at the moment the turnaround is very long at the LBS...
and... CARBON@!

You can send those hubs to Dirt Components and they'll build the wheels with them for you. Everything is all hand built in Austin TX and the turnaround is pretty quick with free shipping on orders over $600. You also get to choose the graphics color, I don't know anyone else that offers that.

[dfinn]

I agree that the stats are saying that, but real-life situations with riders I know and ride where I ride I would say that is not necessarily the case...since they've cracked their wheels. It is all about side shots here. Not casing the thing on a landing or whatever. We just have a lot of hungry sharks that tend to poke holes. And again, I wanted carbon, but it wasn't worth my potential downtime waiting for a warranty replacement.

^ this is my experience as well. I still know lots of guys cracking/breaking carbon wheels. Sure, most of them come with a lifetime warranty at this point but what a pain in the ass it would be to have to deal with getting a replacement rim and getting it relaced mid season or on a bike trip. *Knocks on wood* I haven't destroyed an aluminum rim to the point that it couldn't still be used in over 10 years and I'm not light or smooth.

I've personally never tried carbon wheels and don't plan to anytime soon. Just doesn't seem worth the hassle.

[VTskibum]

This difference between aluminum and carbon can be explained like this: Difference between wooden roller coaster and one on rails. Not as drastic as that, but you get the picture. If you are going to spend the money on Carbon, get something with a solid reputation. I'm pondering a set from NOBL as we speak. That, or NOX (I have those on my SS). Also, Chris King hubs or nothing! Just my 5cents

I used to be on the CK bandwagon, along with several friends, and we've all gone elsewhere after several very expensive failures. Either I9 or high end DT Swiss w/ ratchet upgraded.

[jm2e]

Option 1. Buy wheels from Toast
Option 2. Check out The Pro’s Closet. Buncha Carbon (and alloy) deals right now.
Option 3. Use the quarantine to lean wheelbuilding. Get Musson’s ebook. It’s so satisfying.


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[jhyatt]

Option 1. Buy wheels from Toast
Option 2. Check out The Pro’s Closet. Buncha Carbon (and alloy) deals right now.
Option 3. Use the quarantine to lean wheelbuilding. Get Musson’s ebook. It’s so satisfying.


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Option 1 taken!
Option 2 explored...
Option 3: I have to work and home school kids. People keep talking about all this free time and movies and stuff... Wtf!?

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[bagtagley]

Option 3: I have to work and home school kids. People keep talking about all this free time and movies and stuff... Wtf!?

Holy shit, this. I'm way busier now than I was before this mess.