Inexplicable bike products

[El Chupacabra]

Im still hoping suspension stems are going to make a comeback.

And Softride beams!

Suspend the rider, not the bike.

[El Chupacabra]

I'd probably run an O-chain if I was racing DH.

For all the doubters: go coast down a rough descent with no chain on and tell me your suspension doesn't feel noticeably better. I've seen plenty of armchair engineers run the numbers and say it shouldn't matter. But I've done it, and it does. I'm sure the O-chain doesn't make it as good as no chain at all, but if it didn't make a noticeable difference, you probably wouldn't see it on the majority of the bikes racing world cups.

I'm looking forward to seeing one of these gizmos on a hardtail.

[Andeh]

Be sure to pair it with an i9 Hydra 0.5deg engagement hub.



If you are racing then you are going fast so there shouldn't be kickback so why would you need that device?

Every time O-Chain is brought up, the comments section love to point to that hand-wavy math. That's all well and good, except that where O-Chain helps is when you're braking hard on rough sections of trail. So your wheel is not rotating or is moving very slowly relative to bike speed. And no, having a low engagement hub doesn't do the same thing, because when that hub does finally engage, it's a hard metal on metal stop, not a dense rubber-dampened stop. No one is saying that every casual rider needs to put an O-Chain on their bike. But it does provide a meaningful affect for bikes with certain suspension kinematics, riding steep, rough trails.

[summit]

Every time O-Chain is brought up, the comments section love to point to that hand-wavy math. That's all well and good, except that where O-Chain helps is when you're braking hard on rough sections of trail. So your wheel is not rotating or is moving very slowly relative to bike speed. And no, having a low engagement hub doesn't do the same thing, because when that hub does finally engage, it's a hard metal on metal stop, not a dense rubber-dampened stop. No one is saying that every casual rider needs to put an O-Chain on their bike. But it does provide a meaningful affect for bikes with certain suspension kinematics, riding steep, rough trails.

I would say the reason for a high engagement hub is so that you are getting consistency. If you have a 36T (10*) hub then dialing that O Chain to 4* gives you a range of 4-14*, 12* setting gets you 12-22*.

[raisingarizona13]

And Softride beams!

Suspend the rider, not the bike.

FKNA! It's like skiing powder!

[toast2266]

I would say the reason for a high engagement hub is so that you are getting consistency. If you have a 36T (10*) hub then dialing that O Chain to 4* gives you a range of 4-14*, 12* setting gets you 12-22*.

Is consistency a good thing? It's basically just saying your suspension consistently feels a little worse.

(as a practical matter, with an O-chain installed, I bet the difference between high and low engagement hubs is almost imperceptible)

[Andeh]

Is consistency a good thing? It's basically just saying your suspension consistently feels a little worse.

(as a practical matter, with an O-chain installed, I bet the difference between high and low engagement hubs is almost imperceptible)

Eh, having done back to back tests with mine, I'd describe the feeling as whatever the hub feels like, plus extra slop/cush on top. A low engagement Roval pawl hub and the 9 degree setup felt pretty awful when you were trying to pedal out of corners, but felt ok with a Hydra. Hydra with 6 degree elastomer feels like a DT with 54t, except that you always get the play on first pedal stroke, and the end of the play is more muted.

Really though, I think people are overlooking how much a bike's suspension kinematic affects things, as opposed to hub engagement. On my GG which has really high PK, the O-chain felt much better. On my Nomad 6, which has a few degrees less PK (especially deeper in travel), I'm not feeling the need to use it. I'm hanging onto it though, and might install it when I go up to the bike park in the summer.

[toast2266]

Eh, having done back to back tests with mine, I'd describe the feeling as whatever the hub feels like, plus extra slop/cush on top. A low engagement Roval pawl hub and the 9 degree setup felt pretty awful when you were trying to pedal out of corners, but felt ok with a Hydra. Hydra with 6 degree elastomer feels like a DT with 54t, except that you always get the play on first pedal stroke, and the end of the play is more muted.

Really though, I think people are overlooking how much a bike's suspension kinematic affects things, as opposed to hub engagement. On my GG which has really high PK, the O-chain felt much better. On my Nomad 6, which has a few degrees less PK (especially deeper in travel), I'm not feeling the need to use it. I'm hanging onto it though, and might install it when I go up to the bike park in the summer.

Ah, yeah, I meant the difference in suspension performance would be almost imperceptible. Seems like the O-chain probably irons out any minor perceptible differences in kickback that you might feel between different hubs?

Regardless, the whole pedal kickback thing is certainly an upside of a lot of the bikes using idlers - most of them have super low kickback numbers.

[jamal]

You guys see that new sram drivetrain?

[toast2266]

You guys see that new sram drivetrain?

The drivetrain has some improvements, at least in theory.

The brakes are the inexplicable ones. They're the same as the old brakes, but now with a feature that makes the hoses rub on your bar.

[climberevan]

The drivetrain has some improvements, at least in theory.

The brakes are the inexplicable ones. They're the same as the old brakes, but now with a feature that makes the hoses rub on your bar.

You're supposed to thread the brake hoses through your bar, then into the stem. Then they go through the top headset bearing and bend really tightly into the frame. Trust us, the Bicycle Marketing Professionals: it's better this way.

[El Chupacabra]

The drivetrain has some improvements, at least in theory. .

The derailleur has been approved for standing on sideways.

[Dee Hubbs]

The derailleur has been approved for standing on sideways.

It’s been a few years since I railed a berm so hard that my front tire washed out, layed my bike down, unclipped both feet, and found my self standing on my rear derailleur.

[toast2266]

It’s been a few years since I railed a berm so hard that my front tire washed out, layed my bike down, unclipped both feet, and found my self standing on my rear derailleur.

I did actually crack a frame once by doing (more or less) that. Chucked the bike on an air gone wrong. I landed upright, but the bike bounced weird and got under me, so I basically landed on the rear end of the bike with it sideways.

Old school 105 derailleur was fine. Steel chainstays bent and cracked.

[XtrPickels]

I did actually crack a frame once by doing (more or less) that. Chucked the bike on an air gone wrong. I landed upright, but the bike bounced weird and got under me, so I basically landed on the rear end of the bike with it sideways.

Old school 105 derailleur was fine. Steel chainstays bent and cracked.

Sending it on a road bike!

[toast2266]

Sending it on a road bike!

Dirt jumper. But I did ride it on pavement sometimes.

It was back when road derailleurs were the only ones you could really get with short cages. It was also back when dual slalom races were a thing, so I kept a small gear cluster on the DJ.

[Dee Hubbs]

Dirt jumper. But I did ride it on pavement sometimes.
It was back when road derailleurs were the only ones you could really get with short cages. It was also back when dual slalom races were a thing, so I kept a small gear cluster on the DJ.

The 105 was a great economical option for a tight range cassette on a DH bike. I had a few on my early 2000's Rocky RM7.

[evdog]

Yeah I used to run 105s on my Super 8 and V10 back in the day often with a road cassette. Not only were they short cage but the spring was way stronger than MTB derailleurs. Those would only last a few days at whistler before the spring in the lower cage self destructed. The 105 seemed to last forever.

[summit]

Is consistency a good thing? It's basically just saying your suspension consistently feels a little worse.

If you are anticipating the kickback it is less likely to throw you than if it is a surprise, no? That is, if you already have a good buffer in place with the O?

My Spire has pretty low PK but I also tend to descend in a high gear which heavily mutes PK... and my EH/Enduro wheelset has 10deg engagement.

[toast2266]

If you are anticipating the kickback it is less likely to throw you than if it is a surprise, no? That is, if you already have a good buffer in place with the O?

I haven't ridden a modern suspension bike where I felt like the kickback was throwing me. Maybe a little bit in weird situations where I hit a big compression in my easiest climbing gear, but that's not really my concern. It's mostly just that kickback interferes with the suspension movement and makes the suspension feel worse.

[east or bust]

[VTskibum]

^^ You did check the date that was released right

[Roxtar]

April Fools jokes don't apply here. (There's enough real-world stupidity to go around)

[Peruvian]

Seth reviewed an inexplicable product today.

https://youtu.be/apyTlND9Cuo

[XXX-er]

The 105 was a great economical option for a tight range cassette on a DH bike. I had a few on my early 2000's Rocky RM7.

I heard the joke " 7 inches of travel up/ down and side to side "