Small Biz Support 2020

[AdironRider]

You don't see how she is pushing her largest cost onto the State while she is shut down via unemployment, then wants to pay them for 2.5 months courtesy of the Feds while nets an extra 25%ish due to the PPP loan forgiveness once she opens back up?

I'm not saying that this isn't going to have any effects on her bottom line currently, I doubt anyone buy grocery stores will set sales records this year, but this chick wanted to ride it out with a skeleton crew and just make rent for a couple months, then have her payroll covered all summer (AKA busy season in Maine). The net result is she gets to keep her employees and it costs her next to nothing for upwards of 6 months (unemployment / PPP combined). That is going to make up for a lot of lost revenue.

[::: :::]

You don't see how she is pushing her largest cost onto the State while she is shut down via unemployment, then wants to pay them for 2.5 months courtesy of the Feds while nets an extra 25%ish due to the PPP loan forgiveness once she opens back up?

she isn't getting paid now for employees & then again later for her employees...she is getting the PPP forgiven once whether now or later

what am i missing?
why would her making a profit later matter? isn't that the point after all?
the 8wk bridging of payroll for downtime is the loan/grant part

if last month's income is zero, the payroll sucks for next month...

[LHutz Esq]

So is the US business loan program only for payroll? The Canadian version it’s payroll, rent, loan payments (not pre-payments) utilities, basically any business expense. If repaid in December 25% is forgiven. You can’t use it for increased management remuneration, dividends, pre-payment of debt etc. There is also currently a 10%wage subsidy and a 75% one in the works. I deal with a lot of small businesses and most in our little town are saying this should be enough to get them through to at least the fall. Some of the, are complaining a bit that certain employees got raises going on the super covid employment insurance - but not really - it was the right move.


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[Core Shot]

So is the US business loan program only for payroll? The Canadian version it’s payroll, rent, loan payments (not pre-payments) utilities, basically any business expense. If repaid in December 25% is forgiven. You can’t use it for increased management remuneration, dividends, pre-payment of debt etc. There is also currently a 10%wage subsidy and a 75% one in the works. I deal with a lot of small businesses and most in our little town are saying this should be enough to get them through to at least the fall. Some of the, are complaining a bit that certain employees got raises going on the super covid employment insurance - but not really - it was the right move.


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US program is similar.
If I just applied for payroll. I was expecting $160k
My accountant studied the regulations and added a bunch of other expenses and jacked it up to $215k.

The odd thing is again sorry to repeat myself, my lower paid workers are better off on unemployment. And if I put them on the payroll they make a lot less.

[GoldMember]

US program is similar.
If I just applied for payroll. I was expecting $160k
My accountant studied the regulations and added a bunch of other expenses and jacked it up to $215k.

The odd thing is again sorry to repeat myself, my lower paid workers are better off on unemployment. And if I put them on the payroll they make a lot less.

Better to put them on payroll so they don't get accustomed to the fat unemployment checks....

[LHutz Esq]

Many here are in the same boat- their employees are making as much or more on the CERB as working - 100% fed funded.

If kept on payroll - 75% fed funded. But there is no requirement to keep them on payroll to get the loan here. You can lay them off - and use the loan for the other expenses. The risk is they don’t come back.

And the loan amounts so far are much less.

They are very easy to get though. Takes less than 5min - online. All you need is your govt payroll number and last years payroll amount.


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[concretejungle]

Still waiting on that fat unemployment check here. I'll relax when it arrives.

[GoldMember]

Still waiting on that fat unemployment check here. I'll relax when it arrives.

Sorry, I was being facetious. I don't want to make light of anyone's situation. The irony in this is just as Core Shot said; if you're on unemployment, depending on your regular income, you can make more than when you were on payroll. It seems a bit backwards as unemployment should just bring you up to your regular income, not exceed it.

For us, we're keeping people working as many hours as we can but for the hours they can't work, we'll pay the difference up to 40 hours per week at their regular wage. We're also paying their health insurance and other benefits as always. With that, we'll claim the entire payroll for an 8-week period plus our lease payment and utilities and line-of-credit interest for forgiveness.

I'm still a little confused on the hours credit as we will be paid for our hours worked by owners during this time yet can claim those same hours for the forgiveness, I think. That's how I understand it but I still can't get over the idea that we're double-dipping by getting paid back by the government for time that we're also charging customers for.

[t-the-east]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/paychec...wing-loan-sba/

We carried this beer for a while, I wasn’t a fan. Carry on, I’ll go back to pacing by the phone/computer waiting to hear on my PPP app. Tomorrow will be a full week since we submitted.

[Mustonen]

Sorry, I was being facetious. I don't want to make light of anyone's situation. The irony in this is just as Core Shot said; if you're on unemployment, depending on your regular income, you can make more than when you were on payroll. It seems a bit backwards as unemployment should just bring you up to your regular income, not exceed it.

This particular point makes conservatives’ heads explode, which is interesting to me. It really hangs some people up to the point where they stop making good decisions. Because their heads don’t explode when somebody can make 1000x more per hour for doing something that is demonstrably less valuable to society even if it commands a ridiculous premium in the marketplace.

I agree that this wasn’t really the intention of the stimulus, not at a micro level. This is macro stuff, though, and it makes all the sense in the world at a macro level.

Anyways, I digress.

ETA: it makes sense at the micro level too. Less stability + lower socioeconomic status = less in savings (on balance) + greater impact by pandemic = more need for stimulus + more likely to be immediately recirculated in the economy. I’m not well off by any stretch, but my stimulus isn’t going anywhere but into short-term savings.

[concretejungle]

Sorry, I was being facetious. I don't want to make light of anyone's situation. The irony in this is just as Core Shot said; if you're on unemployment, depending on your regular income, you can make more than when you were on payroll. It seems a bit backwards as unemployment should just bring you up to your regular income, not exceed it.

For us, we're keeping people working as many hours as we can but for the hours they can't work, we'll pay the difference up to 40 hours per week at their regular wage. We're also paying their health insurance and other benefits as always. With that, we'll claim the entire payroll for an 8-week period plus our lease payment and utilities and line-of-credit interest for forgiveness.

I'm still a little confused on the hours credit as we will be paid for our hours worked by owners during this time yet can claim those same hours for the forgiveness, I think. That's how I understand it but I still can't get over the idea that we're double-dipping by getting paid back by the government for time that we're also charging customers for.

I know and I completely understand. I'd rather go to my normal job (although maybe I deserve a raise) and I think it's weird that I'll get more to stay home but my daughter doesn't have a school to go to so staying at home helps out. I'd much rather my employer kept us in the loop on whether or not they've applied for PPP but such is life.

[GoldMember]

I sent an email to the Branch Manager of SBA where I live. I asked the question about having people working on jobs for part of the week and having them sit home the remainder of the week. Here are the highlights of his answer:

From SBA website:

The loan will be fully forgiven if the funds are used for payroll costs, interest on mortgages, rent, and utilities (due to likely high subscription, at least 75% of the forgiven amount must have been used for payroll). Loan payments will also be deferred for six months. No collateral or personal guarantees are required. Neither the government nor lenders will charge small businesses any fees.


Forgiveness is based on the employer maintaining or quickly rehiring employees and maintaining salary levels. Forgiveness will be reduced if full-time headcount declines, or if salaries and wages decrease.

Then he added his own comment:

As far as hours and working, the idea of the loan is for you to maintain your payroll at normal levels and basically keep people employed and off unemployment. What you have them do with their time is up to you.

In other words, if we want them to do nothing and sit at home or if we want them to go out to jobsites, SBA doesn't care, it's forgivable, regardless; subject, of course to meeting the other criteria of the loan. While this is somewhat counter-intuitive to me, that was his answer.

[Core Shot]

Just found out today that the $600 check has no deductions.

Anyone know if that money is tax free by law? Or do they get taxed next April?


Even my high paid employees are getting a lot more net paycheck being unemployed.

If I put them on payroll one of them is going to snipe me from a grassy knoll.

[jackstraw]

We carried this beer for a while, I wasn’t a fan. Carry on, I’ll go back to pacing by the phone/computer waiting to hear on my PPP app. Tomorrow will be a full week since we submitted.

Yeah, their beer is decent, but I never buy it.

My son is going to make more money through unemployment vs working. His industry (experiential marketing) is all but shut completely down. There is absolutely nothing for him to do at work.

We, on the other hand, are still busy and considered essential. One side of our business is closed, but the other is open. We have employees that would potentially make more money if we furloughed them...but we are open and we need them. That is just a really fucked up scenario.

[yellofin]

I have been a customer of Chase for 20 years. Business and personal checking and 8 years into a 15 year home Mortage that has never been late to pay even this month. I am 8 days into my PPP application I have a confirmation no. So I know that they have it but just received an email welcoming me to join their family and a send me to a page to apply. I also went to the drive through at my bank a few days ago and asked the teller if Could leave my card so a manager could speak to me about a credit line or business loan. I know that he was there because I could hear him talking but the teller said he would call. Still hasn’t so so much for building up a good relationship with your bank

[Mustonen]

Dude, it’s chase. You don’t bank with Chase to build a relationship. They do good stuff, but warm fuzzies aren’t really it.

[yellofin]

Dude, it’s chase. You don’t bank with Chase to build a relationship. They do good stuff, but warm fuzzies aren’t really it.

I’m not looking for them to tickle my ass with a feather. I have always been in contact with all of my customers at all times no matter what. I don’t care how busy they are just pick up the phone

[SuperGaper]

I sent an email to the Branch Manager of SBA where I live. I asked the question about having people working on jobs for part of the week and having them sit home the remainder of the week. Here are the highlights of his answer:

From SBA website:

The loan will be fully forgiven if the funds are used for payroll costs, interest on mortgages, rent, and utilities (due to likely high subscription, at least 75% of the forgiven amount must have been used for payroll). Loan payments will also be deferred for six months. No collateral or personal guarantees are required. Neither the government nor lenders will charge small businesses any fees.


Forgiveness is based on the employer maintaining or quickly rehiring employees and maintaining salary levels. Forgiveness will be reduced if full-time headcount declines, or if salaries and wages decrease.

Then he added his own comment:

As far as hours and working, the idea of the loan is for you to maintain your payroll at normal levels and basically keep people employed and off unemployment. What you have them do with their time is up to you.

In other words, if we want them to do nothing and sit at home or if we want them to go out to jobsites, SBA doesn't care, it's forgivable, regardless; subject, of course to meeting the other criteria of the loan. While this is somewhat counter-intuitive to me, that was his answer.

That is exactly what I am planning on doing, employees get full wages, and health coverage to stay home. From the macro sense it is 1- to try to reduce unemployment numbers, and 2- help small business
keep trained staff while making sure there is money ready to go back into the economy from the bottom up when things reopen. A byproduct for me will be that I can cover rents and utilities as well and still reach full forgiveness.

Of course still have not heard back from Wells Fargo, wife applied for her loan on 4/4 (a Saturday) at 7am when she saw the email, I applied for mine at 8am. She got the to fill out her application today, I still
have not been notified that I can fill out mine. Glad my accountant pulled up 141 pages of payroll stubs, payroll journals, tax returns and UI/WC docs for me by Thursday 4/2 end of business.

Also heard of 2 friends with small businesses that have been funded here in town, one by Rocky Mountain Bank and one by Bank of Jackson Hole.

Payroll is tomorrow, have not had a billable job, outside of storage accounts that bill monthly, since around 3/15. If PPP doesn't happen for me, and I do another round of payroll, things will get to looking
a little grim in terms of liquidity- and will feel stupid for not putting the crew on unemployment.

But hey, in 2008 I was a much smaller business, with no cash reserves, and was very close to going under, looking to liquidate assets to keep afloat for months on end.

Strange that a commie like me ends up a business owner- I don't particular enjoy it, but I started in my field in 91, and its the only thing I know. I don't even enjoy invoicing or making
deposits anymore. I guess the thrill/terror of trying to sort out survival in these trying times has been interesting, and the phone and emails have been trickling in to the point when we open
we will easily book the next month of business. Will that be in May? June? or July?

Oh, and I still get 80-100 days of skiing, or this year 64 days, 248 trams, so I am whining like a little bitch!

[SuperGaper]

Check that- just got another email, still in the queue, not ready to let me apply yet.

WTF!

[Djongo Unchained]

Oh, and I still get 80-100 days of skiing, or this year 64 days, 248 trams, so I am winning like a little bitch!

This is all that I heard in there.

One more day than my gimped up self.
228 more boxes though, fuck me.

I'm only skiing trams next year, fuckit. Gonna get Rowdy.

[SuperGaper]

This is all that I heard in there.

One more day than my gimped up self.
228 more boxes though, fuck me.

I'm only skiing trams next year, fuckit. Gonna get Rowdy.

No worries my man, hopefully we ski next year on the tram! Not ideal for social distancing.

In the meantime, hopefully we get some corn on the King, I'm batting about .250 with the rest being straight frozen to semi frozen. That is a horrible ROI for skinning!

A tram to shit skiing is nothing- in fact its so fun in an absurd way.

[akdoc13]

Update on my PPP loan. I applied on 4/3 through my business bank, Fidelity. My documents all checked out and they submitted to the SBA on Friday 4/10. I got another email from Fidelity yesterday that the SBA had approved my PPP loan and I should be able to sign my loan paperwork later this week or early next week and receive funds as soon as they have my signed loan docs. They will wire transfer the money same day. Just wanted to give everyone a glimmer of hope as I know I was doubtful I'd get anything.

[smmokan]

Still no updates or word on the EIDL from anyone? It's been two weeks since I applied, I've heard/seen nothing.

[::: :::]

Got an SBA email last night re EIDL stating that they’d be providing $1k/ employee up to the $10k advance published limit

It seemed more of an update of terms than a confirmation or acceptance of application

It’s the only response from SBA since application I’ve received

Re PPP, we finally got an email that our bank had applications ready for multi-owner businesses...app will be submitted this morning

[smmokan]

Yep, I just received this email. What a joke, they really thought this through.

On March 29, 2020, following the passage of the CARES Act, the SBA provided small business owners and non-profits impacted by COVID-19 with the opportunity to obtain up to a $10,000 Advance on their Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL). The Advance is available as part of the full EIDL application and will be transferred into the account you provide shortly after your application is submitted. To ensure that the greatest number of applicants can receive assistance during this challenging time, the amount of your Advance will be determined by the number of your pre-disaster (i.e., as of January 31, 2020) employees. The Advance will provide $1,000 per employee up to a maximum of $10,000.

You may be eligible for another loan program, the Paycheck Protection Program, which is available through participating lenders. Below is a comparison of the two loan programs: