Small Biz Support 2020

[smmokan]

I don’t feel bad at all for the person in the article. They just thought/hoped they were getting a free meal ticket of 200k. Fuck you. You got the money too quick..?! Super ungrateful for our tax dollar bailout. What’s stopping them from returning the whole amount, paying off the loan, and fending for themselves?

There are plenty of circumstances where the loan should be forgiven for all the good guys and for the good of community. But if you’re gonna money grab and be a snake about it, and in turn that short change a valid small biz- then all bets off. Wouldn’t it be great if a company did a high proportion of stock buy backs on the last tax bill they wouldn’t be eligible this time. IMO they should have padded assets to weather a storm. But instead they get a two-fer bailout in 2 years. Largest ever. /

Well shit, that's what I wanted to say but I thought I'd put it nicely.

[CascadeLuke]

Haha that was my morning grumpy bear soapbox comment of the week. Will be following along, hope every mag gets their request.

[Bunion 2020]

Got my P3 submitted today. My local bank (25 years with them) has been very responsive.

[Fritz]

Cool.

What are your thoughts on this perspective?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/paychec...wing-loan-sba/

My thought is that there is always somebody bitching about something no matter what it is


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[alias_rice]

It seems like the smaller regional banks and credit unions are doing much better on average than the big banks. We were able to fund 40 of these on Friday, with another 10 or so waiting on signed docs. We should get about that each day until we are out of apps.

Bob, if your bank keeps ghosting you next week shoot me a pm and I can get you funded in a day or two.

[Crusty]

I don’t feel bad at all for the person in the article. They just thought/hoped they were getting a free meal ticket of 200k. Fuck you. You got the money too quick..?! Super ungrateful for our tax dollar bailout. What’s stopping them from returning the whole amount, paying off the loan, and fending for themselves?

There are plenty of circumstances where the loan should be forgiven for all the good guys and for the good of community. But if you’re gonna money grab and be a snake about it, and in turn that short change a valid small biz- then all bets off. Wouldn’t it be great if a company did a high proportion of stock buy backs on the last tax bill they wouldn’t be eligible this time. IMO they should have padded assets to weather a storm. But instead they get a two-fer bailout in 2 years. Largest ever. /

OK, you're looking for money. What's better about you vs them?

[CascadeLuke]

OK, you're looking for money. What's better about you vs them?

I’m not looking to take out anything I can’t handle. Just my shot at 10k for missed income. And to be honest I have rainy day money because I’m try not to live or operate above my means. Also did not reach out to a publication to bitch when I get almost 1/4 million dollars of tax payer money in a matter of days. Especially since she doesn’t have the employees, right. It’s not that I’m better, it’s that they suck, and tried to game the system.

[Core Shot]

Cool.

What are your thoughts on this perspective?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/paychec...wing-loan-sba/

Is this the article you are bitching about?

I don’t see the harm. They make good beer. And they seem like decent business folks.

Reading between the lines I think the bank fucked up. By law they have to fund within 10 days of approval. So they probably funded out of their own reserves.

Which is also why my local bank isn’t approving any more loans until they get the first tranche funded.

So their main problem is they can’t rehire the tasting room employees.
But PPP was not meant to rehire people. There’s laws in most states or at least executive orders preventing non essential businesses from opening.

So the brewery folks need to realize this money is to pay their layed off people and have them not work.

Which sucks for the employees.
In Maine they can’t be making much more than $15.
So when you put them back on payroll not to work you screw them over. Bizarro land.

It would make more sense if PPP started when the stop work order was lifted.

It would also make sense if PPP was limited to businesses that had to shut down or layoff.

[::: :::]

I’m not looking to take out anything I can’t handle. Just my shot at 10k for missed income. And to be honest I have rainy day money because I’m try not to live or operate above my means. Also did not reach out to a publication to bitch when I get almost 1/4 million dollars of tax payer money in a matter of days. Especially since she doesn’t have the employees, right. It’s not that I’m better, it’s that they suck, and tried to game the system.

That’s how you read that article?

Wow

[CascadeLuke]

That’s how you read that article?

Wow

I’m not try to make this thread about this person or me. But yes, I think she’s got little to complain about. How did you read it?
Thought the plan was designed to be paying furloughed employees at home, no? Well, she’s not.

[::: :::]

She’s caught in the circumstance of a pandemic that won’t allow her business to work and a frenzy to access assistance that she can’t pass on lest she not get any & her business sinks, only to find out that it’s a loan she cannot use

And you blame her for that circumstance?

She’s saddled with a loan she doesn’t want because she can’t use it. She admitted she now will have to pay it off.
She can’t employ her people because she can’t sell her product in a pandemic

You blame her for not having enough cash to weather an unforeseeable multi month stay at home order with full staff?


This is not a failure to boot strap
this a national emergency

[Mustonen]

Reading between the lines I think the bank fucked up. By law they have to fund within 10 days of approval. So they probably funded out of their own reserves.

Which is also why my local bank isn’t approving any more loans until they get the first tranche funded.

It’s not really “by law” I don’t think, but if they want the SBA guarantee it needs to be 10 days. These aren’t the kinds of loans you want to be sitting on without that guarantee, broadly speaking. Even at 0% default they’re a huge haircut on normal net interest margin. There isn’t a reason I can see (outside of over-conservatism) that the bank might not impose a 5 day guideline to stay a long ways away from losing that guarantee. I don’t understand how another 5 days helps her, though....

And these are funded by the banks. The SBA provides a guarantee and obviously the gubmint will fund forgiveness. In the meantime, though, it’s all coming out of the financial institution’s liquidity. There IS a program to sell the loans after funding to manage that if the FI needs to, but that’s a separate kettle of fish.

In any event....$200k at 1% isn’t a bad deal. She can pay it back tomorrow if she doesn’t like it. If it doesn’t help her the program wasn’t designed for her. And she can complain that she needs a program to help her. Agreed, though, that she doesn’t really get it.

[Core Shot]

She is supposed to pay her team not to work

PPP as I understand it is to a) pay people more than unemployment so they can pay their rent etc.
and b) reduce the unemployment numbers so trump can win bigly.

But what’s fucked up is the same two trillion dollar bailout also pays people on unemployment an additional $15 an hour.
They really didn’t think this through.

[jono]

No one said you had to pay people to stay home. There's nothing stopping a company that makes non-essential goods from pivoting to essential goods. Former customer of mine stopped production of aircraft stuff and started making PPE. I'm sure that allows them to keep idling forward with their non-essential work, too, because who's checking?

Is it efficient? Probably not. But if it's paid for by a forgivable loan that's not a concern for the business owner.

[climberevan]

PPP is designed to reduce the unemployment numbers so trump can win bigly.

FIFY

[SuperGaper]

I'm still waiting to hear back from Wells Fargo, US Bank and Bank of Jackson Hole.

It is my plan to use the PPP loan to pay my employees to stay home- we have jobs booking for when the lockdown ends.
2 friends got approved by Bank of Jackson Hole yesterday, and they applied the day prior to me, so maybe tomorrow. I would have to move my business accounts to them, which would be kind of a pain. This asset cap thing with Wells has really sucked, just get emails saying I am still in line to apply, will hear from them shortly. (HA!)

My guys are pretty well paid, between $27 and 33 per hour, plus full medical so my paying them will be better than unemployment. Also want as many little people to have money to spend when (if) this ever lets up. And want to retain all my employees because frankly they are pretty fucking great.

Regarding the brewery folks, it is clearly labeled Payroll Protection Program and at least 75% has to go to wages, health and UI/WC and the rest to rent and utilities for full forgiveness. Seemed pretty clear to me.

[Mustonen]

This asset cap thing with Wells has really sucked, just get emails saying I am still in line to apply, will hear from them shortly. (HA!)

I enjoy how they’re using this to try to wiggle out of their penalties for generally being really shitty and craven.

Fuck those guys. Seriously.

[Duffman]

Applied through PNC Bank here in Philly for the PPP on the day their online portal was live on Sat the 4th. Still paying all of my staff but at reduced hours, would like to be able to get them back to full hours even with the limited amount of work we are doing. Zero response from the bank, including whether I would need to change any documents with them since they changed some stuff after they fixed their abhorrent portal on Sunday the 5th. Finally got my relationship manager to confirm that they did , in fact , have my application which I doubted due to the shitty portal. But still no movement or communication whatsoever on the loan itself 8 days later. I am thoroughly disgusted with this after having banked there for over 15 years. Nobody can answer any questions and no communications from their end. I feel like the money will be gone from this by the time they get it together, and then we will have to layoff staff.

[Mustonen]

I’m sure they’re completely overwhelmed. If it helps, the money will probably still be available by the time they get to you OR by the time you apply somewhere else.

[Core Shot]

I hope and actually believe that the ppp program funding will increase in the next bailout bill.

If so, getting funding later will be better. Since your employees can actually work and be productive again.

There was a huge rush due to the $500 billion cap.
But if they expand that, the money is better spent later.

[CascadeLuke]

She’s caught in the circumstance of a pandemic that won’t allow her business to work and a frenzy to access assistance that she can’t pass on lest she not get any & her business sinks, only to find out that it’s a loan she cannot use

And you blame her for that circumstance?

She’s saddled with a loan she doesn’t want because she can’t use it. She admitted she now will have to pay it off.
She can’t employ her people because she can’t sell her product in a pandemic

You blame her for not having enough cash to weather an unforeseeable multi month stay at home order with full staff?


This is not a failure to boot strap
this a national emergency

I understand and I have compassion. My response and reading was directed about the relief funds. Because we’ve all got a story. Do you want to hear mine? Didn’t think so. 65% of my income is made between mid Feb and the end of June. Plus my industry may have been turned on its head with demand severely decreased. That’s the first time I’ve even voiced that problem at all except in discussion with my wife.
Everyone is impacted. Some are ok and managing best they can. While others are in a severe hardship or even getting crushed.
I would’ve better voiced myself by saying the company was tone def in the article. She’s not barring the load and paying her people prior - then seeking to get made whole and forge on. No. She wanted to use tax payer money to pay employees when she reopens while ringing money through the tills and bringing revenue again. You’re good with that? Plus she telegraphed that she cannot be trusted with the money for two months in her account.
Then there is the lack of accountability. Borrower had the terms and docs, no one forced her or is forcing here to keep 200k.
There are people in this thread way more deserving.

[CascadeLuke]

::: :::

I understand and I have compassion. My response and reading was directed about the relief funds. Because we’ve all got a story. Do you want to hear mine? Didn’t think so. 65% of my income is made between mid Feb and the end of June. Plus my industry may have been turned on its head with demand severely decreased. That’s the first time I’ve even voiced that problem at all except in discussion with my wife.
Everyone is impacted. Some are ok and managing best they can. While others are in a severe hardship or even getting crushed.
I would’ve better voiced myself by saying the company was tone def in the article. She’s not barring the load and paying her people prior - then seeking to get made whole and forge on. No. She wanted to use tax payer money to pay employees when she reopens while ringing money through the tills and bringing revenue again. You’re good with that? Plus she telegraphed that she cannot be trusted with the money for two months in her account.
Then there is the lack of accountability. Borrower had the terms and docs, no one forced her or is forcing her to keep 200k.
There are people in this thread way more deserving.

[::: :::]

You’re good with that?

I think we are reading different things. I don't read that she isn't taking responsibility or that she's trying to game the system. She's just pissed she's saddled with extra debt that can't be used. She stated she never would have signed for it had she known of the timeline issue.

At a fundamental level, this is a government grant to keep businesses alive with the restriction that it isn't just a payoff into the owner's pockets. Otherwise, it is Core Shot's scenario to pay people to stay home, not to support businesses. The grant isn't about universal income.

Whether she uses the money from weeks 1-8 or weeks 4-12 makes zero difference to the intent of the loan & would still help the business & ALL its employees recover from the downtime.

No one is forcing her to keep the 200k. She's painfully aware. It seems the bank didn't particularly understand it either during the rush to make funds available.

The point of the article was that it was unclear to her that there was a specific timeline. Per the article, she is keeping her adult pants on and dealing with it. I just don't see how that is her business gaming anyone or leaching off the common good.

[AdironRider]

That lady is full of shit on the timeline. It was and is well communicated what the loan terms are with these loans, she just didn't pay attention after she heard the word forgiveness.

I would disagree on the intent being keeping a business alive exclusively. The PPP loan is to keep businesses alive by keeping employees employed. Even at a brewery, you lose enough talent and the business will fail. The supposed 'win win' scenario where the employee keeps their job and the business doesn't have to worry about replacing trained employees.

This chick just thought she was going to get to hold onto the cash and let the State of Maine pay out the unemployment nut, then she gets to profit twice when people come back to work. She seems at least smart enough to not outright say that.

[::: :::]

she gets to profit twice

her business is shuttered now -- how is she profiting twice?
when her customers return, she'll be on fumes if she even exists

maybe i should just stick to drawing shit cuz i clearly don't get the business side