The Ethics of Outdorr Recreation in Times of COVID-19

**Kinnikinnick** · 04-19-2020, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Summit

Hitching rides for pass laps is BS if you are supposed to be socially distancing for recreation

I agree, no go unless you’re car shuttling eith your own quarantine crew.

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**Danno** · 04-19-2020, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Ted26

The main point I wanted to make is that outdoor air is not a significant vector for viral transmission. Doesn't matter how many cars are parked at the trailhead (could be thousands!), if people stay 10+ feet apart and keep moving then viral transmission is extremely unlikely. Cliff Mass had some good points in this post regarding that matter: https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2020/...-and-park.html

The sad reality is that coronavirus is not going to be eliminated until a vaccine is available, which best case scenario probably isn't until next year. Should we leave public land closures in place until a vaccine is available? What public health criteria needs to be met for those supportive of closures to feel comfortable with reopening stuff? Serious question, not sarcasm. I can understand keeping things like bars closed, but real evidence needs to be presented that keeping trails and outdoor spaces closed is going to actually lower viral transmission.

As I understand it, our measures today are about capacity of our health care system, and "opening up" is dependent on whether we can ensure that we have capacity, on the day we "open" and going forward.

I'm not going to argue about whether trailheads and parking lots should or should not be open, because this is clearly the thread for people to justify their own choices, not debate the efficacy or justification of those measures. But I don't think closed lots need to wait for a vaccine to open up, because the closures themselves are not about preventing people from EVER getting the disease, it's about preventing them from getting it NOW. And preventing them from needing SAR or medical help at a time when our medical system is strained.

Obviously, everyone in here is smart and keeps their distance in the lot and on the trail. It would help, too, if all of the other yahoos not posting in here would do the same.

**Foggy_Goggles** · 04-19-2020, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick

Not sustainable for what, dealing with ski town cunts?

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No..no...I think you've proven that is pretty sustainable. I'm worried about your health. I mean, stable people just don't go calling people they don't know cunts. That's Michigan behavior. Really, just relax. Hate is a choice. It's taking years of your life.

**Ted26** · 04-19-2020, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

As I understand it, our measures today are about capacity of our health care system, and "opening up" is dependent on whether we can ensure that we have capacity, on the day we "open" and going forward.

That is certainly reasonable criteria. Main reason I brought up criteria for opening outdoors is because I haven't seen it mentioned much in the guidelines for reopening America etc. It's easy to keep things closed now without much push back, but officials better be able to articulate their logic come summer

**mall walker** · 04-19-2020, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

I mean, stable people just don't go calling people they don't know cunts.

what internet are you from?

**Kinnikinnick** · 04-19-2020, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

No..no...I think you've proven that is pretty sustainable. I'm worried about your health. I mean, stable people just don't go calling people they don't know cunts. That's Michigan behavior. Really, just relax. Hate is a choice. It's taking years of your life.

Actually not.

It is a healthy psychological state to think for yourself and call a cunt a cunt when you see them. Actually its probably accidently misogynistic, so Ill change my ways.

Ski town dick heads!! Yeah cause it probably isnt even the chicks cause theyre probably not egotistically wrapped up in some posturing BS. its the brobrah ski town dicks.

All good here, now you might be another story.

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**Foggy_Goggles** · 04-19-2020, 02:35 PM

Wanna give me the cliff notes? If we are gonna have a fight its nice to know what we are fighting about.

Ken Venturi Stroke Saver: an an equal opportunity dickhead. I don't care where you are from or how long you've been there.

**stuckathuntermtn** · 04-19-2020, 03:02 PM

Don't know where this thread is at now, but just gonna spitball after some beers.
Trailheads are getting quite crowded (all things considered). There is only so much that is dry, let alone rideable on a mountain bike. I am not liking it. Missoula County is in a good place right now, relatively, but it just isn't right. And the under 25 crowd doesn't move 6' away. I'm a bit immunocompromised so fuck you, you damn kids! (I'm 35. Young for TGR, lol).
Just a weird thing from it being Spring. And it feels later in the year due to the early shutdown of ski areas and some warm weather. Before 12pm seems better. It's Montana so it's always something like a high of 70 and a low of 25 and maybe it'll snow or rain but then be beautiful. Trees are just starting to sprout leaves. Partly plague with a chance of sunshine.
I am taking this seriously because the more seriously we take it, the sooner it will end. I don't like the thought of having trouble breathing. Never experienced that before and would like to keep it that way.

**mmmm...pow!** · 04-19-2020, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Bunion 2020

Is someone forcing you to read this?

Can you look away from a trainwreck?

**Garfield3d** · 04-19-2020, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by old goat

turn on your sarcasm meter.

Are you saying he likes experts?

**Kinnikinnick** · 04-19-2020, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Mostly I'm worried about you running out of blood pressure medication before noon. Just because there is a greater idiot doesn't make someone not a fucking idiot, get it? Recreating responsibly is one thing, going up to Loveland sans backcounty knowledge and the ability to make conservative decisions, parking like a Jackhole, and shuttling up 6 deep and then having some fractionally educated opinion about your rights and justifying your behavior by highlighting a protest in another state is the problem.

I've been fighting this fight for backcountry skiing access on public lands for a long time. My message has always been that style counts. You wanna come up to the pass, act like its a Kenny Chensey concern, disrespect the established protocol and then go whine about it on social media have at it. But don't be surprised when the parking lots don't get plowed and the closed signs go up.

What ya gonna do then? The current situation is that some people can't tone it down and some people can't respect the capacity of places and shit in a WAG bag. None of that has much to do with the 19.

Here are YOUR words. numb skull in direct response to my quoted post. So NONE of it was directed my way?

Responded to my post, used Ya, you wanna, justifying your behavior, etc

But none of it was aimed at me.

Is that how you gAslight the wife as you are verbally abusing her?

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**fastfred** · 04-19-2020, 05:22 PM

whats the score anyone knows? FG vs KKK?
I always side with foggy since he tells the truth and tells it how it is........................

Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick

Not sustainable for what, dealing with ski town cunts?

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I kinda like the idea of being a ski town cunt it has a nice ring to it, if I make tshirts and hats do I have to split the money with you?

Originally Posted by mmmm...pow!

Can you look away from a trainwreck?

I'm having alittle laugh and I can't look away

skied friday been biking the other two days walking around the block doesn't cut it almost touch some babe on the trail today, she was looking way to fine not to touch

**Foggy_Goggles** · 04-19-2020, 05:33 PM

I kinda like the idea of being a ski town cunt it has a nice ring to it, if I make tshirts and hats do I have to split the money with you?

Dooood...it would be so good. It would be like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDZ7eyRN2oI

except we could have the closure order graphics, a picture of Polis with a Buff on...just generally the insecurity/I'm better than you vibe monetized.

KKK, sorry I stepped out of the fight for a hot minute to go do some COVID compliant recreating. Seriously, you told me you haven't been out of the county skiing in 3 weeks or something. I don't think your the problem. Your internet persona could perhaps benefit from a bit of smoothing around the edges, but you be you.

You'll probably have more fun picking a different target for an E battle. I lose interest really quick. Plus Fred and I have a business venture to work on.

**old goat** · 04-19-2020, 05:45 PM

Should we open the parking lots? Sure, if people would just be sensible. In other words, no.

**yeahman** · 04-19-2020, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by Ted26

but officials better be able to articulate their logic come summer

Truth. Was just talking with my wife about Yellowstone and Glacier. What are they going to do? Stay closed all summer, how many businesses will that kill? Open up for just locals, or just Americans? Or open the flood gates of international travel, and all that will inevitably bring with it? And you can't really open the parks without all the hotels and restaurants being open. What are they going to do?

It's a frickin' mess.

**Kinnikinnick** · 04-19-2020, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Dooood...it would be so good. It would be like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDZ7eyRN2oI

except we could have the closure order graphics, a picture of Polis with a Buff on...just generally the insecurity/I'm better than you vibe monetized.

KKK, sorry I stepped out of the fight for a hot minute to go do some COVID compliant recreating. Seriously, you told me you haven't been out of the county skiing in 3 weeks or something. I don't think your the problem. Your internet persona could perhaps benefit from a bit of smoothing around the edges, but you be you.

You'll probably have more fun picking a different target for an E battle. I lose interest really quick. Plus Fred and I have a business venture to work on.

Bullshit Foggy. Its like you and fastdick and cmdickhead just cant stop responding when i post anything. I stopped posting inthe CO ski town dicks’ snow conditions thread and you followed me here.

Check yourself

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**cmsummit** · 04-19-2020, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by fastfred

whats the score anyone knows? FG vs KKK?
I always side with foggy since he tells the truth and tells it how it is........................

I gotta believe that FG is good peeps.....he does have a solid panache for telling like it is. A+ contributor here. I'd have a beer (or six) with him.

KKK on the other hand........fueled by emotion, hatred and insecurities. Maybe he's more chill IRL, but his online personna could DIE IN A FIRE and I wouldn't care.

FG - 1
KKK - 0

I'm not sure if that's an accurate score, but KKK has set the bar so low that any score at all is WINNING.

**simple** · 04-19-2020, 06:10 PM

There are guys like KKK in every forum I am on. They are raging with helplessness. Something is missing in their usual routine and instead of adjusting they rage.

**~mikey b** · 04-19-2020, 06:12 PM

all I can say is I’ve been skiing my face off solo in my town

FKNA

**fastfred** · 04-19-2020, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick

Bullshit Foggy. Its like you and fastdick and cmdickhead just cant stop responding when i post anything. I stopped posting inthe CO ski town dicks’ snow conditions thread and you followed me here.

Check yourself

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broseph you have an open invite to my house I think you could use it seriously
bring a mtn bike, road bike, back cuntry skis, and xc skis I usually do what the weather and my mood predicts
you can bring beer or weed, but I don't smoke and I rarely drink these days, so food would be the best gift

my house rules are basic

no getting drunk or high and getting violent
no getting drunk or high and crying
break it you replace it (ask simple he's bought me a few throw rugs)

**fastfred** · 04-19-2020, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Dooood...it would be so good. It would be like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDZ7eyRN2oI

except we could have the closure order graphics, a picture of Polis with a Buff on...just generally the insecurity/I'm better than you vibe monetized.

KKK, sorry I stepped out of the fight for a hot minute to go do some COVID compliant recreating. Seriously, you told me you haven't been out of the county skiing in 3 weeks or something. I don't think your the problem. Your internet persona could perhaps benefit from a bit of smoothing around the edges, but you be you.

You'll probably have more fun picking a different target for an E battle. I lose interest really quick. Plus Fred and I have a business venture to work on.

FUCK!!!

Winning!

"cool hate idea, such a simple concept"
ski town all stars!!!! fuck yah

**simple** · 04-19-2020, 06:26 PM

foggy don't mtn bike or moto but he is curious. He likes that flying gliding while we are earth bound

**Kinnikinnick** · 04-19-2020, 06:34 PM

Scores! Hah!

What a trifecta of loser ski town dickheads!!!!

Pathetically hilarious!!!

Keep on dickheading on soldiers for ski town selfishness!!! Noble warriors!!

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**RockinB** · 04-19-2020, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by yeahman

Truth. Was just talking with my wife about Yellowstone and Glacier. What are they going to do? Stay closed all summer, how many businesses will that kill? Open up for just locals, or just Americans? Or open the flood gates of international travel, and all that will inevitably bring with it? And you can't really open the parks with all the hotels and restaurants being open. What are they going to do?

It's a frickin' mess.

This has been a hot topic in our household lately. GNP tourons are what keep Whitefish ticking all summer. Who knows what the Park will end up deciding to do, but no matter what decision is made, it will cause some harm. Shut the park, keep outsiders away and watch the businesses die a slow death or open it up in some fashion and bring a bunch of people through the area. Keeping the hotels/short term rentals closed will only do so much in my opinion.

Frickin’ mess is the damn truth.

**CountryFunk** · 04-19-2020, 06:38 PM

Say in MT, the Governor says ok we are good to open on a limited basis. Will you drive to a trailhead with people outside your household?

Not doing that now - it seems a little whacky to drive up to do ... whatever, in separate rigs, but on the other hand it makes total sense. Who knows what the fuck your buddy has been exposed to in the last 5 days, and gas is like $1.84 a gallon, so fuck my/our carbon footprint.