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03-30-2020, 10:42 AM #251Registered User
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Up there with the "I ski cut" when their track in the photo is just a fall line track into the start zone. It would be nice if the UAC either lumped all silly obs together or just filtered them out and only posted relevant stuff.
It seems like if you are going to recreate outdoors right now, fine its a free country. Maybe just don't post daily on social media to reduce FOMO. If you get slid down all of superior, bragging about your strava time and the speeds you hit just make you look silly.
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03-30-2020, 10:49 AM #252
Apparently all the local hot spots around here are mobbed. A friend ran Sypes to the M from her house and said the M was full of people hiking together so she turned around and headed back the way she came. Smdh. I went to one to boulder (obscure low ball with a quick walk) and on the walk across the bridge/road a couple decided to walk up right behind me. I threw my hands up and called them ass hole morons. They backed off or else I would have had more words for them. I don't have a BC setup so I don't have to make that decision.
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03-30-2020, 10:53 AM #253
yeah... if nothing else, I think posting up these avy reports with the submitters justifying themselves ("even though our whole party was caught/carried we did nothing wrong and were purely unlucky") without any refutation or commentary from the UAC gives the impression that these justifications are just fine. it's a hard/messy problem and I don't know what the UAC would do, but I wrote them telling them how it comes across to me, anyway.
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03-30-2020, 11:04 AM #254
lot of people did okay when you either caught it on krcl or dialed er up
just the facts of avalaunche probabilities for the day
in the kbyg oag days"When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
"I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
"THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
"I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno
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03-30-2020, 11:39 AM #255Registered User
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- Apr 2007
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- Almost Mountains
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Ironically, the Facebook post popping up in my memory feed this morning was from my first time back out after breaking my tibia five years ago (a USFS road ski on fishscales and a three-pin setup). It had me thinking some of the same stuff, and it was good for a bit of perspective. I will say that a key difference is that I could hang out with people outside my household at that point, including at bars, if not for taking some herbal supplements to encourage healing that were potentially liver-toxic. So some of the coping mechanisms we might have available in the case of injury are specifically not available in a pandemic/social-distancing situation, and we do need to give that some mental space, as well.
I had come to a personal decision last week that, barring unforeseen decreases in concern, I wasn't going to be skiing Tuckerman Ravine this spring. I'm bummed about that; while I have a lot going for me here, I do miss having access to the alpine environments I did when living in Montana, because there's something about being in those environments that feels right and different in a way that even a good pow day doesn't. But the reports from this weekend just reinforced that decision; it takes about 35-40 minutes for me to drive to Pinkham Notch, which means there aren't a lot of people who live a whole lot closer (Conway may be a lot bigger than Bethel, but it and Gorham aren't exactly huge towns), and if I can reasonably consider that local, there are a whole lot of other people who can also do so. That makes it a big geographic draw, even if everyone there is climbing and skiing well within their abilities and being extra-special-cautious about inherent alpine hazards and social distancing.
And having been there, I can guarantee you that there would have been at least a significant minority of people who did not fall into that "if". So I'm not surprised that it's getting closed, and I'm bummed for the really local skiers who just lost an exceptionally cool part of their backyard because other people can't follow directions.
This, too. FWIW, I have been getting out at local, closed ski areas, with the dog. It's the only way this time of year that I can get him enough exercise, and yes, it's the best way for me to also get some fresh air and exercise. But I've been picking terrain very carefully and skiing conservatively (which I have to with the dog anyhow, as he's not well-enough behaved to be off lead). I have posted a few things on conditions during this period, but only when I thought they might help dissuade people—especially newbies not familiar with some of the issues they might encounter, like suddenly sliding backwards when their skins can't grip the ice-skating rink under the pow—from getting out, or if not dissuade them, hopefully make them a little more conscious of the risks involved.
And yes, there's some selfishness in that, and part of it is that I know I won't be able to ignore someone who crashes in front of me and needs help. I will feel morally compelled to help to the extent I can, even if it means potentially exposing myself to that person or to other helpers/rescuers, which would then mean giving serious consideration to having my wife pack my stuff and leave it outside so I can go find a hotel room.
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03-30-2020, 12:23 PM #256
altacoup -
Thank you for your post --
I am struggling to know how to respond. . .
Most of all, I agree with your next to last sentence :
'If all we have to sacrifice .. is a few months of skiing to help other people's health that seems trivial. '
my review today indicates :
- a crowd at Tuckerman's on Saturday... ;
- uphill is still allowed in lcc... .
These activities ( in the case of lcc, for All but lcc residents ) seem contrary to Stay-at-home / shelter-at-home principles --
I don't know that S.at.home practices are going to be effective, but given the projections for increased cases escalating in the weeks ahead and the projections that it will overwhelm our health care system...
it is a concept that I will practice and promote.
... the alternative seems to be : business as usual, maybe "the strong" will survive...
while one considers this option,
please consider the example of the SW CO rescue that lead fifty rescuers to potential exposure :
when those rescuers go home, how many additional people are going to be exposed over the following fourteen days - and on - Because it becomes everyone in their household is exposed - and so on and so on.
There's more - but I don't know that it fits the context of the thread or this community
( Part of this post was to create a 'place-holder' as we see the spread of this disease in the days ahead... )
again :
be well -
Please, be Safe.
Respectfully : tj
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03-30-2020, 12:44 PM #257
The Ethics of Outdorr Recreation in Times of COVID-19
This whole virus just shows that people everywhere are selfish and ignorant. Every single country and state has made the same mistakes as those preceding it. IE: it’ll be different here or that doesn’t apply to us. If people seriously can’t just come to grips and stay the fuck home we’re totally fucked. Every single action that everyone takes right now effect everyone else. Simple as that. If you’re so mentally weak that you can’t ski or bike for a few months I suggest some counseling when this all gets better. But it’ll take longer to get better if everyone continues on their current track.
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03-30-2020, 12:46 PM #258Registered User
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- Mar 2012
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- SW, CO
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I honestly cannot believe that the Utah backcountry is still open after everything that happened in the past few days. I am starting to wonder what it would actually take for the FS/UAVY/local resorts to shut it all down.
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03-30-2020, 01:17 PM #259
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03-30-2020, 01:25 PM #260
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03-30-2020, 02:15 PM #261User
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Wait, so you two are actually suggesting that all recreation on public land should be verboten, full penalty of law? You don't want to see any statistics to back up your claims of that activity being a risk to public health, just....feelings?
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03-30-2020, 02:30 PM #262Registered User
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- Mar 2012
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- SW, CO
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- 1,598
I'm not suggesting it, I'm just surprised that action to limit access hasn't happened yet. The Salt Lake area has an enormous population compared to most other communities that have limited access to backcountry recreation so far. It just feels like a matter of time before the ball drops.
Edit: I just read that there were 42 human triggered avalanches with 14 people caught and carried in the Wasatch in the past 5 days. Those would be incredible numbers during normal times, but if I was manager of public lands and saw that it wouldn't take much to decide to shut down what I could.
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03-30-2020, 02:35 PM #263
What I am seeing is learning curve, all be it a slow one. Everybody starts out at "it's no big deal", then goes to "it's a problem somewhere else", to "it's a problem but doesn't affect me" and fianaly ends up at "this shit is serious and I have to do my part." There is one additional step, but most won't take it, and that is "I need to go above and beyond, put myself at risk to help others." I have found myself go through all of these stages.
Maybe this will help you all decide to stay home...
California just put out the call for medical health workers of all aspects to join up and help. They are looking for retired and part time health professionals. I just signed up, so think about fucking up on your ride, ski or climb and having me treat your broken bone. We all know how vets treat horses with a broken leg...
I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...iscariot
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03-30-2020, 02:40 PM #264
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03-30-2020, 02:45 PM #265
^^^
This exactly.
People can go do what they want in the forest but ski resorts leaving open facilities as hot spots for people to transmit the disease is beyond stupid. All backcountry rescues should be suspended. You go out in this and get hurt, it’s on you. So selfish to expose others and stress the system.
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03-30-2020, 02:56 PM #266
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03-30-2020, 03:55 PM #267User
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- Ogden
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This I can get behind.
All backcountry rescues should be suspended. You go out in this and get hurt, it’s on you. So selfish to expose others and stress the system.
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03-30-2020, 03:59 PM #268
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03-30-2020, 04:12 PM #269
What statistics are you waiting for? As I've said half a dozen times it takes a lot of PPE to treat a broken leg. There was an ER doc on the TV last night who had to work with no PPE. None. How many of those do you want to see before you're satisfied. Are you waiting for the first ski injury that lies for 2 days in the ER hall because there's no place to put them. The orthopedist that can't help take care of covid patients because she's taking care of you. The first SAR person that test positive and infects 5 others? None of that stuff, except the ER doc has happend yet, It will. Everyone is on Trump for not reacting until shit got bad. Aren't you doing the same thing--waiting for shit to get bad. The only way to get ahead of this thing is to think ahead of it. So think.
Cats with coronavirus.
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03-30-2020, 04:15 PM #270
and what do you suppose the rate of breaking a leg is per person per hour for bc skiing vs other activities? it's not like we're all breaking legs out there every time we get out. people fall getting into the bathtub too, should we not shower? should the overweight be forced to do some cardio in their homes to reduce the chances of heart attack? I'd wager banning the sale of alcohol would substantially reduce the (rapidly increasing) number of domestic violence calls, but I don't see people calling for that. but the handful of folks who want to do one of the few things remaining to them outside of their homes are suddenly the problem, because they could get hurt? I get it, it's selfish. but lots more things are selfish than just this.
and the same cadre of folks loudly calling for the banning of all outdoor activity also seem to be the folks calling for an indefinite total lockdown. you wanna get people to agree to stop living their lives for n weeks, you might get some buy in. but just "give up and eventually it'll get better maybe, in the meantime just stay inside though - in 18 months there might even be a vaccine that might work for one of these strands!" is a tough sell. and we haven't even hit the first monthly bill cycle where folks can't make rent, mortgage, electric, etc yet...
eta: I'd bet you making 1 extra trip/week to the supermarket spreads this disease statistically way more per person than (solo/conservative) bc skiing.Last edited by mall walker; 03-30-2020 at 04:43 PM.
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03-30-2020, 04:27 PM #271
I agree with almost everything you said. However, the reason that Liquor stores are deemed "essential" is to prevent the EDs from being overwhelmed with detoxing alcoholics.
Also, SARs in colorado are all volunteer. No one is forcing any SAR member to respond to anything if they are uncomfortable.
I totally reject the notion that backcountry skiing cannot be done in such a manner that is substantially safer (reduced chance of both disease transmission AND injury) than recreating (cycling, jogging, etc.) in and around Denver.
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03-30-2020, 04:29 PM #272
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03-30-2020, 04:37 PM #273
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03-30-2020, 04:38 PM #274
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03-30-2020, 04:45 PM #275
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