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  1. #1526
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBS View Post
    ^^^You need this for protection from 6-8yos
    Even then your chances are not good.

  2. #1527
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    I’ve been mountain biking every day almost and not wearing a mask. I try to avoid crowded trails like I did before there was a pandemic. So now I’m a Trump voter? Just trying to catch up.
    It's a tough call re support, need a chart to figure it out.
    I ride alone for the most part and am happy to blast through intersections where groups [that have no protection] of riders I don't recognize are gathered. Also ride the more difficult old school trails that are mostly directional and empty, visitors around here hate to climb.
    Way too hot and humid to wear a fucking buff while riding and sketchy to take a hand off the bars to pull it up.
    www.apriliaforum.com

    "If the road You followed brought you to this,of what use was the road"?

    "I have no idea what I am talking about but would be happy to share my biased opinions as fact on the matter. "
    Ottime

  3. #1528
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegoSkier View Post
    Yeah, I don't get it. Maybe I'm hiking/biking in the wrong places but everywhere I've gone people seem respectful of distance and there is always a place to pull off. Granted, I've altered plans several times. Examples include at Wallace Falls, because we had small kids, we went on the old rail bed trail instead of the single track near the river since it was way wider and less crowded. Last weekend, went to MTB at Duthie Sat morning. It was way too crowded so I just headed across the street for XC in Grand Ridge which I barely saw anybody.
    Duthie is a complete shitshow currently. I usually ride through Duthie to get to my normal GR loops, but decided after last time I'll take the road around Duthie. I haven't bothered trying GR on the weekends since March either, just seemed too crowded to comfortably practice guidance. We had a great time hiking Mt Catherine (near Hyak) last Friday as a family, all of us had masks, just pulled them on when passing the dozen or so people we encountered (most of whom also had masks, save one guy in an NRA shirt ) and stepped slightly off trail. Easy.

  4. #1529
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    Sep 2007
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    All great convos. Certainly realizing I'm the least

    FYI, buffs are about the least effective form of face covering for Covid, better than nothing, barely. I think they are better than a bandana maybe.
    Glad you brought this up. "Least effective" and "barely better than nothing" are not synonyms in this instance. Please perform the following test at home: Put your buff on your neck. While the buff is still not on your face, put your hand in front of your mouth and breathe the type of exhale you would while hiking uphill. Now, pull the buff up in front of your face. Do the same thing. Can you feel the difference? Most air is blocked on the way out, and overall velocity of breath is reduced substantially.

    Here's a couple graphs on the subject from a scientific study from 2013 (Davies et al "Testing the Efficacy of Homemade Masks: Would They Protect in an Influenza Pandemic?"). Def worth a read if you are making your own mask. I'll preface this with a note that I would not wear a buff as a mask in an indoor environment.

    The first chart is about filtration effectiveness. Note that the scarf, the worst case, still reduces risk by at least 50%. This is specific to one wearing the buff as protection from others. As you could imagine, if someone that is unknowingly infected is wearing a buff and breathing out, only 50% of particles would go through the fabric. Possibly more important, as you've likely seen on computational fluid dynamics GIFs, the velocity is reduced, so the 50% that get through the mask are only pushed a few feet, rather than up to 40ft.



    The second chart might be equally important. "Static pressure drop" means friction. If it is hard to breathe, and you take the mask off, then what is the point of the high filter mask? This is the reason I couldn't possibly wear an N95 mask or a tea-towel on the trail (I have a mask made of this material.) So, what you're really looking for is a mask that you have a high propensity to wear, that is also effective. I think a buff meets this criteria well on the trails because it is easy to breathe through, and easier to move up and down than a mask that hangs on your ears.


  5. #1530
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    Bluffs help, how much is the question. Masks work by reducing the respiratory droplets we exhale. Think moisture, i.e. the foggy tou see when you exhale on a cold day. If you are on a chairlift and see tour breath, then pull up tour Buff, you no longer see tour breath. This is because the fabric is capturing the most respiratory droplets. There is a reason Buffs, bandanas and other face masks get wet. The more layers, and the more twists and turns in those layers, the more efficient the covering is at removing respiratory droplets.

    To go back to the chairlift example, if you are wearing a Buff and exhale forcibly you can see tour breath again because you are overcoming the filtering effect of the fabric. So, wearing a Buff or bandana at the hardware store is reasonably effective, running or biking...not so much.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  6. #1531
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    “Droplets” and “aerosol” are considered to be different by academics and epis (I am neither).

    Here’s data and thread that was anticipating that transmission via aerosol and not just droplets

    https://mobile.twitter.com/carlwangy...25586868015104

  7. #1532
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    Sep 2005
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    https://snowbrains.com/melbourne-aus...k-operations1/

    This isn't a good sign for the upcoming winter in North America especially as the US is failing to get infection rates under control.

  8. #1533
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    Oct 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    Bluffs help, how much is the question. Masks work by reducing the respiratory droplets we exhale. Think moisture, i.e. the foggy tou see when you exhale on a cold day. If you are on a chairlift and see tour breath, then pull up tour Buff, you no longer see tour breath. This is because the fabric is capturing the most respiratory droplets. There is a reason Buffs, bandanas and other face masks get wet. The more layers, and the more twists and turns in those layers, the more efficient the covering is at removing respiratory droplets.

    To go back to the chairlift example, if you are wearing a Buff and exhale forcibly you can see tour breath again because you are overcoming the filtering effect of the fabric. So, wearing a Buff or bandana at the hardware store is reasonably effective, running or biking...not so much.
    I'm not saying that they don't work at all, but research has shown them to be far less effective than many other masks, almost any fabric is more effective. Buff (the brand) even had an explanation on their website explaining that, as I was going to order some for a business but decided not to after realizing that we could do better with some other face mask designs.

    There are different levels of filtration that materials offer, as has been discussed ad nauseam. Buffs fall to the low end of that spectrum. It is better than nothing, and will certainly meet the demand for masks anywhere that requires them, but if you are looking to be more protective to yourself and others, then you'd want to get something better.

    My wife is immune-compromised and I don't want to take any chances infecting her so I wear a surgical quality mask. If that wasn't the case, honestly, I would probably do far less and might wear a Buff.

  9. #1534
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    Nov 2014
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    fwiw I bumped into a local infectious diseases specialist on the trail this morning, guy I know from a local skimo group. he was the first person I knew actually to start urging us to socially distance as he started talking about this way before anyplace in the US had started enforcing it, and he's skeptical we'll be able to have organized races (responsibly, anyway) this winter, he has urged some other local groups to stop having big races, and so on. so not taking this stuff lightly at all. he had just done 5 of the last 7 weeks on call on the hospital dealing with this stuff and was out for a trail run. we passed with the same distance I've been giving everyone on the singletrack, then stopped maybe 8' apart and chatted for a bit.

    since he wasn't wearing a mask/buff, I made sure to tell him that he's an anti-masking trumptard

  10. #1535
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    Quote Originally Posted by brutah View Post
    https://snowbrains.com/melbourne-aus...k-operations1/

    This isn't a good sign for the upcoming winter in North America especially as the US is failing to get infection rates under control.
    Yeah but were they wearing buffs down there?

    I'm hoping we've got more knowledge and better contact tracing abilities by the time the snow starts to fly. Combined with pretty much everyone adopting mask/buff usage, this should help mitigate any serious outbreaks. Up here in Canada, at least.

  11. #1536
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    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    since he wasn't wearing a mask/buff, I made sure to tell him that he's an anti-masking trumptard
    Glad your doing your part

    ...
    I just read that one of the first film productions in the country since lockdowns was recently shutdown due to covid positive results of multiple peeps on the crew. Twas in UT.

  12. #1537
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    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    since he wasn't wearing a mask/buff, I made sure to tell him that he's an anti-masking trumptard
    The proper term is “unempathetic dickhead anti-masker”.

  13. #1538
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBS View Post
    The proper term is “unempathetic dickhead anti-masker”.
    Yeah, get it right!

    Don't worry friends, I burned all my masks based on this thread. I threw them on some dry some dry brush because my risk tolerance machine told me that forest fires start from matches, not flaming masks.

  14. #1539
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaft View Post
    Any reasonable reading of CA's rules says "wear masks when near people on trails less than 8' wide."



    The "community standard" (no masks on trails) and the "rules" (masks when within 6' of someone) are currently misaligned. I guess that's my point. Also was just curious about the community standard on TGR. Seems to be about 50/50 pro-mask on trails to anti-mask on trails (with only shaft getting all agro about it)
    That's your reading. The text says wear a mask when outdoors if you can't stay 6 feet from others. You seem to be assuming that people are going to pass each other on the trail and nobody is going to yield. If that's how you hike that's bullshit. And btw wearing a mask doesn't absolve you from staying 6 feet or more away when it's possible--possible doesn't mean easy. If you wear a mask you still should get off the trail to let someone pass unless they do it first. And keep doing it after the pandemic is over.

    By community standard I meant rules. My point was that someone who is highly risk averse doesn't get to set the standard nor does the person who is highly risk tolerant. The community standard/rule should be set hopefully by public health professionals and clear enough that everyone understands. Then people who can't tolerate the risk and people who can't tolerate the restrictions can stay home. When people all make their own rules the result is chaos and conflict. You've made your own rule--hike with a buff. That's fine, as long as you stay 6 feet from me. Don't expect me or anyone else to follow your rule.
    Get off the trail to pass. If you don't have the athletic ability to do that or want to hike in rhinestone sandals stay on the sidewalk.

  15. #1540
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    That's your reading. The text says wear a mask when outdoors if you can't stay 6 feet from others. You seem to be assuming that people are going to pass each other on the trail and nobody is going to yield. If that's how you hike that's bullshit. And btw wearing a mask doesn't absolve you from staying 6 feet or more away when it's possible--possible doesn't mean easy. If you wear a mask you still should get off the trail to let someone pass unless they do it first. And keep doing it after the pandemic is over.

    By community standard I meant rules. My point was that someone who is highly risk averse doesn't get to set the standard nor does the person who is highly risk tolerant. The community standard/rule should be set hopefully by public health professionals and clear enough that everyone understands. Then people who can't tolerate the risk and people who can't tolerate the restrictions can stay home. When people all make their own rules the result is chaos and conflict. You've made your own rule--hike with a buff. That's fine, as long as you stay 6 feet from me. Don't expect me or anyone else to follow your rule.
    Get off the trail to pass. If you don't have the athletic ability to do that or want to hike in rhinestone sandals stay on the sidewalk.
    good post

  16. #1541
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    ^^ This.

  17. #1542
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    Yup

  18. #1543
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulster2626 View Post
    Yeah but were they wearing buffs down there?

    I'm hoping we've got more knowledge and better contact tracing abilities by the time the snow starts to fly. Combined with pretty much everyone adopting mask/buff usage, this should help mitigate any serious outbreaks. Up here in Canada, at least.
    Canada, maybe. The US? No fucking way. Maybe if it wasn't an election year.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  19. #1544
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    Canada, maybe. The US? No fucking way. Maybe if it wasn't an election year.
    It's pretty good how everyone across all ages are using masks here in the liftlines without complaint.

    WhistlerClick image for larger version. 

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  20. #1545
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    It's pretty good how everyone across all ages are using masks here in the liftlines without complaint.

    WhistlerClick image for larger version. 

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    This

    It doesn't have to be that difficult. Wear a mask when near others, take it off when not. Wear it in the lift line, take it off for the run/ride. Passing somebody on a trail, even within 6 feet is not going to give you the covids unless maybe they cough in your face. Even measles, one of the most high contagious diseases, isn't passed that easily.

    To take it to a social context, walking on a sparsely populated sidewalk...no mask, walking on a busy sidewalk...wear a mask. Indoors always wear a mask especially if in one location for a period of time. Though I wear one, walking into 7/11 to buy a six pack is not really concerning. Thirty minutes in a grocery store is.

    Obviously, the better the filtering job a mask does the better off we all are. Wearing a Buff on a trail ride or hike is probably more then enough. It certainly is not adequate to watch a Nicks game in NYC. Context and environment are important.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  21. #1546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    Canada, maybe. The US? No fucking way. Maybe if it wasn't an election year.
    Strange how an election can cause people to just give zero fucks whatsoever about the well-being of others, and consequentially later down the line, themselves. Do you think this (people not wearing masks, stuff opening too soon) would have still happened anyway?

    No to get political, but really, you guys better fix this in November.

  22. #1547
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    Election year or not our country is sadly a majority of ass hats. I think common sense for most died decades ago.

  23. #1548
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    Not only a whole lot of morons but with the media being so much a mix of standard mainstream fear mongering and "social" conspiracy theories no one seems to know who to trust.

    Regular people need to be spoon fed information in order to be aware of actual issues . The (insert boogyman here) figured out to contol the masses by bombarding people with information and advertisements 24/7/365. With "entertainment" people will just consume and barely think as their brains turn to mush. I doubt they knew it would get this bad, I don't think they had evil intentions, they just wanted to make it easier for people to be happy little cows. Oops.

  24. #1549
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    I bet that post election, Covid isn't as big a deal as it is now, regardless of who wins.
    Live Free or Die

  25. #1550
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    I bet that post election, Covid isn't as big a deal as it is now, regardless of who wins.
    I recall a lot of people betting that covid would go away once summer was here. How is that bet looking now?

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