The Ethics of Outdorr Recreation in Times of COVID-19

[concretejungle]

Prolly, the same with recreational dispensaries in CO

You're aware of the existence of physical dependence, correct?

[claymond]

Normally, I'd never care about optics of skiing/riding/climbing risky things. But this isn't normal times. If people can't be responsible, or look responsible, a government entity will clamp down. Hard. Who's more likely to end up in an ER? A skilled backcountry skier on a steep slope, a mature responsible dirt bike rider in the desert, or an overweight, new to jogging, working from home dude running rocky trails in the foothills? I don't know. But the skier or dirt biker are gonna attract a lot more attention if they get hurt, and -speculation- lead to far more draconian rules

[Vt-Freeheel]

Got my ticket for tomorrow but not going to be possible to use it after hanging around inside the last two days. Heading out early for some ski rec. before I go nuts.


Best offer, pp please

[skifishbum]

is that like mess with my shit im dependent on and im gonna get physical in a non olivia newton john sense?
i agree with both ac and mw some where in the gray between
he don't post a lot as of late but
sfotex is about as solid as it comes from hosting maggots at his crib to killer straight up hassle free extra powder skirt gratis to a og dyna group buy that shut down his paypal
but its pretty easy for me to not have to say sorry to be THAT GUY I thought i could..... i hope i didnt expose you your wah wife with ms 2 kids cats dogs chix and or horses while you wah and try and ride out a global pandemic safely
i forgot to ask if they would consider shuttin sar down i doubt it
its voli org and your choice of attending all call outs
but he was in bt sat.
yet im gonna try to find a way to recrexercise safely on water using a human powered sup or boat
for my mental and physical healh

[Bunion 2020]

Do what you want. Until there are additional restrictions most people will.

As soon as you get in an auto to drive to a trailhead that puts a strain on the system that would not be there had you stayed home and gone for a walk instead.

If you can walk to a trailhead/ skin from your home, that is a different story.

[skiracer88_00]

Normally, I'd never care about optics of skiing/riding/climbing risky things. But this isn't normal times. If people can't be responsible, or look responsible, a government entity will clamp down. Hard. Who's more likely to end up in an ER? A skilled backcountry skier on a steep slope, a mature responsible dirt bike rider in the desert, or an overweight, new to jogging, working from home dude running rocky trails in the foothills? I don't know. But the skier or dirt biker are gonna attract a lot more attention if they get hurt, and -speculation- lead to far more draconian rules

I don't know, but I can tell you without a doubt that a skilled backcountry skier on a 25-degree slope is less likely to be injured than any of your examples.

[zion zig zag]

and what do you suppose the rate of breaking a leg is per person per hour for bc skiing vs other activities? it's not like we're all breaking legs out there every time we get out. people fall getting into the bathtub too, should we not shower? should the overweight be forced to do some cardio in their homes to reduce the chances of heart attack? I'd wager banning the sale of alcohol would substantially reduce the (rapidly increasing) number of domestic violence calls, but I don't see people calling for that. but the handful of folks who want to do one of the few things remaining to them outside of their homes are suddenly the problem, because they could get hurt? I get it, it's selfish. but lots more things are selfish than just this.

and the same cadre of folks loudly calling for the banning of all outdoor activity also seem to be the folks calling for an indefinite total lockdown. you wanna get people to agree to stop living their lives for n weeks, you might get some buy in. but just "give up and eventually it'll get better maybe, in the meantime just stay inside though - in 18 months there might even be a vaccine that might work for one of these strands!" is a tough sell. and we haven't even hit the first monthly bill cycle where folks can't make rent, mortgage, electric, etc yet...

eta: I'd bet you making 1 extra trip/week to the supermarket spreads this disease statistically way more per person than (solo/conservative) bc skiing.

Well said.

[schindlerpiste]

Why is Alta still counting inches and claiming "record snowfall" when it is closed and we can't ski? It's almost encouraging people to get out there and hike up Collins

[gimpy]

some good stuff in this thread
agreed keeping bathrooms open is just stupid. do you guys for reals not pee outside when you tour in lcc? yeah,....... thats what i thought
at the resort in my backyard they have been grooming all the access points to allow for folks hiking to keep their distance and to make for easier rescues. this also allows for folks to hike up without even needing bc gear. there are obviously some cons as well, but i think the good outweighs the bad

[zartagen]

Got my ticket for tomorrow but not going to be possible to use it after hanging around inside the last two days. Heading out early for some ski rec. before I go nuts.


Best offer, pp please

A $10.80 convenience fee on that shit!

Fucking ticketmaster.

[claymond]

I don't know, but I can tell you without a doubt that a skilled backcountry skier on a 25-degree slope is less likely to be injured than any of your examples.

Id tend to agree and do not want/am not arguing for backcountry skiing to be forbidden.

[TBS]

Everything in moderation

Rode MTBs with a buddy Saturday. Separate vehicles, stayed way apart on low-consequence singletrack we've ridden for years.

Came across three other groups of two, incl. a board member of a professional organization to which some of you belong. Everybody keeping way more than 6' distance.

Most consequential event of the day was when I pulled out of our lane onto the two lane, 35MPH road to trailhead, to find an X3 barreling down on me while passing a Ram truck pulling a trailer. Had to leave the road to avoid collision.

The hazards of outdoor recreation are many...

[ACH]

I wouldn't want him taking my temperature either.

Good for you Dave. Hopefully you're not needed.

“Hi, is that a equine rectal thermometer or are you just happy to see me?”

[Bunion 2020]

https://www.outsideonline.com/241109...colorado#close

[PB]

I'm looking for the waiver/medical directive that says I refuse any attempt to rescue me in the BC.

At my age, it would be one of the more desirable ways to go i.e. beats the shit out of dementia, congestive heart failure, progressive kidney disease, etc., although I would like to stipulate that it be relatively painless e.g. freezing to death.

[iriponsnow]

I agree with almost everything you said. However, the reason that Liquor stores are deemed "essential" is to prevent the EDs from being overwhelmed with detoxing alcoholics.

This is true 1000x over.

[tgapp]

and what do you suppose the rate of breaking a leg is per person per hour for bc skiing vs other activities? it's not like we're all breaking legs out there every time we get out. people fall getting into the bathtub too, should we not shower? should the overweight be forced to do some cardio in their homes to reduce the chances of heart attack? I'd wager banning the sale of alcohol would substantially reduce the (rapidly increasing) number of domestic violence calls, but I don't see people calling for that. but the handful of folks who want to do one of the few things remaining to them outside of their homes are suddenly the problem, because they could get hurt? I get it, it's selfish. but lots more things are selfish than just this.

and the same cadre of folks loudly calling for the banning of all outdoor activity also seem to be the folks calling for an indefinite total lockdown. you wanna get people to agree to stop living their lives for n weeks, you might get some buy in. but just "give up and eventually it'll get better maybe, in the meantime just stay inside though - in 18 months there might even be a vaccine that might work for one of these strands!" is a tough sell. and we haven't even hit the first monthly bill cycle where folks can't make rent, mortgage, electric, etc yet...

eta: I'd bet you making 1 extra trip/week to the supermarket spreads this disease statistically way more per person than (solo/conservative) bc skiing.

i honestly agree with all of this, but i have found myself tempering my risk tolerance in light of the current strain on our medical system. i know it's selfish to get out and ski, and i could very well break my femur exiting beartrap down a 10 degree slope (!!!), but i still feel the need to get out - i just might not be going as hard as i normally would.

i agree with your analysis re: supermarket visiting, but i also feel like it's very important to support local grocer's (and businesses in general) now who might not have the wherewithal to offer something like curbside pickup or delivery. i went to the russian grocery store today for stuff you can't get elsewhere, and they had gloves & sanitizer, and no one gave me shit for wearing masks/gloves. it is NOT important to send a big line you've wanted to ski all year because you're afraid you'll miss out on it. i think sticking to less radical terrain (relative to your own ability level of course) is a reasonable compromise.

[camlax]

eta: I'd bet you making 1 extra trip/week to the supermarket spreads this disease statistically way more per person than (solo/conservative) bc skiing.

yes and no. I would say you as an individual are more likely to get the virus from the super market. Problem is, as a skier, you hurt your leg in a simple area like beartrap. It will take many people from multiple agencies to get you out. Lets say 10 on the low end. 3 firefighters, 2 cops, and 5 people to drag you out. Each of those 10 unknowingly gets the virus from you and responds to 10 more calls around the canyon and valley the rest of the week. That's a possibility that each of those 10 responders unknowingly spreads the disease to 10 people each for a total of 100 now infected. The risk of unnecessarily infecting police, fire, and EMS in general is much more devastating to the community than random skimo bros.

Ski if you want, just recognize the low probability of getting hurt and needing help and the extreme potential consequence of spreading covid unnecessarily

[Kinnikinnick]

yes and no. I would say you as an individual are more likely to get the virus from the super market. Problem is, as a skier, you hurt your leg in a simple area like beartrap. It will take many people from multiple agencies to get you out. Lets say 10 on the low end. 3 firefighters, 2 cops, and 5 people to drag you out. Each of those 10 unknowingly gets the virus from you and responds to 10 more calls around the canyon and valley the rest of the week. That's a possibility that each of those 10 responders unknowingly spreads the disease to 10 people each for a total of 100 now infected. The risk of unnecessarily infecting police, fire, and EMS in general is much more devastating to the community than random skimo bros.

Ski if you want, just recognize the low probability of getting hurt and needing help and the extreme potential consequence of spreading covid unnecessarily

But the odds that he, if he’s been isolated like me for three weeks, has the CV is super low.

Stop using these sensationalized worst case scenarios.



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[tgapp]

yes and no. I would say you as an individual are more likely to get the virus from the super market. Problem is, as a skier, you hurt your leg in a simple area like beartrap. It will take many people from multiple agencies to get you out. Lets say 10 on the low end. 3 firefighters, 2 cops, and 5 people to drag you out. Each of those 10 unknowingly gets the virus from you and responds to 10 more calls around the canyon and valley the rest of the week. That's a possibility that each of those 10 responders unknowingly spreads the disease to 10 people each for a total of 100 now infected. The risk of unnecessarily infecting police, fire, and EMS in general is much more devastating to the community than random skimo bros.

Ski if you want, just recognize the low probability of getting hurt and needing help and the extreme potential consequence of spreading covid unnecessarily

while it's true that you could be a corona carrier and not be symptomatic, you also need to understand that 1. transmission doesn't happen magically (it's believed to be by droplet), and 2. symptoms = dramatically increased rate of transmission. if you aren't symptomatic or aerosolizing shit out of your lungs, you won't be transmitting as much, even if you are a carrier. if you're sick, stay home. if you do go out, consider throwing a mask in your backpack so that in the (very low likelihood) event you get hurt, you can protect others. masking yourself is more about preventing you sharing it to other people than it is about staying healthy yourself.

so honestly even with relatively minimal PPE protocol first responders can minimize their likelihood of contracting and spreading covid.

[XXX-er]

but arent you ^^ still sposed to self isolate & stay home ?

[altacoup]

but arent you ^^ still sposed to self isolate & stay home ?

Exactly. The selfishness in the human race is beyond belief. I love to ski and bike. That’s my whole life outside of work. But I’m done recreating in my favorite activities because it’s common sense for the greater good. It’s a good time to check yourself and measure your priorities. Are skiing and riding more important to you than your societies health? If so rearrange your life so that you’re off the grid and totally self sustainable. Lots of room to build a cabin up in Alaska and fend for yourself

[Kinnikinnick]

Exactly. The selfishness in the human race is beyond belief. I love to ski and bike. That’s my whole life outside of work. But I’m done recreating in my favorite activities because it’s common sense for the greater good. It’s a good time to check yourself and measure your priorities. Are skiing and riding more important to you than your societies health? If so rearrange your life so that you’re off the grid and totally self sustainable. Lots of room to build a cabin up in Alaska and fend for yourself

The black and white thinking of the virtue signaler/ social shamer.

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[XXX-er]

why don't you just do it then, why are you trying to rationalize it to the rest of the class ?

[tgapp]

The black and white thinking of the virtue signaler/ social shamer.

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^^ honestly, this 100x over. do you order from amazon? surely your package itself isn't that big of a liability, but the warehouse you are forcing to stay in operation because of your consumer habits is 100x more dangerous than my decision to hike alone, with my dogs, at 5am on a weekday when i know i won't see anyone else.