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  1. #501
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    Dec 2007
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    There's no doubt that we all have an immense, probably limitless, ability to rationalize doing what we want to do. Including us backcountry skiers. One of the few impulses we all have that equals or exceeds our ability to rationalize doing what we want to do is the desire to marshal evidence that we're morally superior. Including us backcountry skiers. Damn, I feel cornered. Maybe I'll just assess my own situation and do what seems reasonable.

  2. #502
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    May 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    Not to say it can't happen, but this is the hill you judgy old fucks are dying on?
    It seems to be enough of the exact rationale for the localities near me who have closed down the rec areas & threatened fines.
    Both visitors & locals can't seem to stay home; they all seem to think they won't be the one who gets injured.
    So, stuff got closed. I'm absolutely sure it's still getting poached.

  3. #503
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    13,650
    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker
    Not to say it can't happen, but this is the hill you judgy old fucks are dying on?
    How old are you anyway? Not that it matters, simply wondering.

    And you have made your position quite clear, multiple times, why do you need to keep defending your actions/POV?
    Ooof!

  4. #504
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    Sep 2008
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    Not Brooklyn
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    Quote Originally Posted by ::: ::: View Post
    It seems to be enough of the exact rationale for the localities near me who have closed down the rec areas & threatened fines.
    Both visitors & locals can't seem to stay home; they all seem to think they won't be the one who gets injured.
    So, stuff got closed. I'm absolutely sure it's still getting poached.
    I think some people are absolutely capable of BC skiing with minuscule potential for amplifying the pandemic. I also think plenty of people engaging in BC skiing will take risks they shouldn't and spray their germs all over the place on the way there and back. Entirely closing down trailheads and parks can because of the latter group can certainly be justified in places.

    But should skier A stop meadow skipping locally because skier B is blowing his nose on old people and center punching touchy, 38 degree windslab hanging over a field of punji sticks? I just don't see how that is a moral imperative.

  5. #505
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    202
    Why are people comparing going to grocery store/pharmacy to going to trailhead for some skiing/biking/hiking?

    Yes, you are definitely more likely to infect or be infected at the store/pharmacy. However, one scenario is an actual necessity the other is a perceived necessity.

  6. #506
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    Aug 2006
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    Ogden
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    548
    seen/heard on Saturday 4/4 on Mt. Ogden. solo.
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    one way to get sick.
    now a complete tool

  7. #507
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    Jun 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    Do whatever you want, I don't give a fuck...What hutash etc are doing in this thread is picking one behavior, without even the pretense at a measurement of the impact it has vs other behaviors, and saying "this is the measuring stick of morality in this time of crisis," and it's a ridiculous device employed in order to brandish some morality stick. Again: get over yourselves.
    I have been saying stay at home as much as possible, not condemning any one behavior. It is not my opinion, but the advise of the public health leaders through out the country. If you don't need to go to the store don't. If you don't need to ski, don't. This is not about any one individual. Mall walker out and about will have a miniscule effect, but 100, 1,000, 10,000 mall walkers will absolutely have an effect. This is not about anyone of us, but about the aggregate effect of all of us. Two weeks ago I would have gone out skiing if I had the chance, but as the experts have ramped up their recommendations I have toned down all my activities.

    If any one person here goes skiing (or what ever activity) it is not going to have an effect, but if all of us have mall walker's (and others) attitude it would. Personally I will react with over caution and have a clear conscious, the rest of you can make your own choice.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  8. #508
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    Nov 2014
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    SLC
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwslider View Post
    Why are people comparing going to grocery store/pharmacy to going to trailhead for some skiing/biking/hiking?

    Yes, you are definitely more likely to infect or be infected at the store/pharmacy. However, one scenario is an actual necessity the other is a perceived necessity.
    Is there nothing whatsoever to eat in your house? How often is going to the supermarket truly necessary, and are you going only that often? What if you forget something, eggs, and make a second (quick) trip back to get more eggs; is this excusable, but going for a 2 mile trail run is inexcusable? Cuz if you take the rate of SAR-involved or ER-involved accidents among mountain travelers per hour and assume that each of those accidents involves exposing ~50 people to COVID, then compare that to the extra trip to the grocery store, I'm not so sure going back for eggs is "no big deal" while some of you are making a very big deal out of the other one. Assuming "necessary" means "required to stay alive" then you could make a case that everyone ought to make one last trip to the grocery store and load up on 50lb sacks of grain, because you can survive on that for months.

    By no means is every trip to the supermarket necessary; and while it's easy (and true) to say "this recreation is unnecessary," if the standard of "necessity" is just "not dying" then loads and loads of things we do are unnecessary, and also contribute to harming others either through the direct spread of COVID or through some other vector (making others deliver things you don't need but merely want, which puts them at risk of exposure, and so on). I don't really think anyone posting on this forum myself included has the stomach to genuinely forego everything actually unnecessary, even if it means a lot of people die, because we all make this choice every day, and every day thousands of people die from things we could prevent if we as a society changed our behaviors*. We just don't want to.

    Fwiw re my age I'm too old to be drafted and young enough to still be in the workforce, which I think are the only significant differentiators here.

    * we could ban alcohol, ban nicotine, ban high-trans-fat foods, have compulsory cardiovascular exercise for all adults, ban driving/private vehicle ownership, ban firearms, ban opioids, force unoccupied hotels or vacation homes to house the homeless, and countless other things that would dramatically and immediately reduce numbers of deaths, if that's what we wanted to do.

  9. #509
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    202
    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    Is there nothing whatsoever to eat in your house? How often is going to the supermarket truly necessary, and are you going only that often? What if you forget something, eggs, and make a second (quick) trip back to get more eggs; is this excusable, but going for a 2 mile trail run is inexcusable? Cuz if you take the rate of SAR-involved or ER-involved accidents among mountain travelers per hour and assume that each of those accidents involves exposing ~50 people to COVID, then compare that to the extra trip to the grocery store, I'm not so sure going back for eggs is "no big deal" while some of you are making a very big deal out of the other one. Assuming "necessary" means "required to stay alive" then you could make a case that everyone ought to make one last trip to the grocery store and load up on 50lb sacks of grain, because you can survive on that for months.

    By no means is every trip to the supermarket necessary; and while it's easy (and true) to say "this recreation is unnecessary," if the standard of "necessity" is just "not dying" then loads and loads of things we do are unnecessary, and also contribute to harming others either through the direct spread of COVID or through some other vector (making others deliver things you don't need but merely want, which puts them at risk of exposure, and so on).

    Fwiw re my age I'm too old to be drafted and young enough to still be in the workforce, which I think are the only significant differentiators here.
    I've driven to the store once in the last 4 weeks to pick up groceries I ordered online. I haven't had face to face contact with anyone but my girlfriend in the same period (other than saying thanks to the guy who put the groceries in the trunk). So ya necessary and I've forgot to order a few things and have not gone back, it can wait two weeks until the next order. My meals have become quite boring because I don't go out to the store for every little thing I may want.

    Just pointing out that going out for recreation and going out for groceries are not the same. Also consider the scenario where everyone who feels like going out for a run goes to their local trailhead. I know how crowded some of the popular trailheads are on the weekend here.

    But ya you can justify your actions however you like.

  10. #510
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    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    What hutash etc are doing in this thread is picking one behavior, without even the pretense at a measurement of the impact it has vs other behaviors, and saying "this is the measuring stick of morality in this time of crisis," and it's a ridiculous device employed in order to brandish some morality stick. Again: get over yourselves.
    whataboutism at its finest

  11. #511
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    Sep 2005
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    PRB
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    Quote Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds! View Post
    I think some people are absolutely capable of BC skiing with minuscule potential for amplifying the pandemic. I also think plenty of people engaging in BC skiing will take risks they shouldn't and spray their germs all over the place on the way there and back. Entirely closing down trailheads and parks can because of the latter group can certainly be justified in places.

    But should skier A stop meadow skipping locally because skier B is blowing his nose on old people and center punching touchy, 38 degree windslab hanging over a field of punji sticks? I just don't see how that is a moral imperative.
    Whether or not Skier A should keep skiing is a personal decision. However, what Skier A should definitely not do, IMO, is publicly defend the behavior and declare that everyone should get to make their own decisions. Because then you get Skier B.

    What Skier A should do is whatever they choose, but quietly. Yet that seems to be impossible. Which I think makes some people wonder if some of the people who think they're Skier As are actually Bs.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "I'd eat a bag of Dicks and wash it down with a Coke any day." - iceman

  12. #512
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    Jun 2006
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    Ventura Highway in the Sunshine
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    One last point...public health is not about the individual, or individual action. It's about the aggregate, the group, the societal effects. Any one person has minimal effect, but large numbers of people do, good or bad.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  13. #513
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    978
    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    In 61 years of life, much of it spent recreating out doors, hiking, climbing, ski touring, etc. I have never needed SAR or urgent medical attention due to said activity. But, with medical services potentially in a state of crisis is it wise and/or ethical to pursue such activities.

    One of the local guide services sent out an email saying they were suspending service to all non-locals to avoid bringing COVID-19 into the county. Shortly after they suspend all services. I thought it a bit odd that they would guide locals only. The tourist board from Mammoth just issued a statement basically saying all non residents to stay away (they never had a problem taking tourist dollars before.)

    I am not sure what the answer here is. I don't want to over burden local services, but I also don't want to be treated like I am nothing more then a profit center. Two different issues here, I suppose.
    well, guys, I believe the point of hutash's op has been lost - as has the potential value of Stay-at-home / shelter-at-home / shelter-in-place Orders --

    in the midwest, they are projecting the peak incidence of COVID is still at least two weeks away --

    Some of us are promoting the Stay-at-home as a means to reduce the incidence of COVID to try to lessen the impact on the medical industry
    ( I am not sure how - as a relatively short-term measure- this makes it an "ethos" ) --

    as more people lose jobs, tensions will rise...

    fortunately, in the United States, you still can choose to do what you choose
    ( - it is my understanding there are several countries in Europe than usually have relative freedom of movement where this is no longer the case ) --

    I encourage everyone to try to be Patient - and perhaps dial down the rhetoric :
    There are not going to be any "winners" from this pandemic...

    slinging insults is not helpful -

    be well -
    Please, be Safe.

    I wish you peace. tj

  14. #514
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    4,939
    Has this been posted yet? It’s the Sherwins above mammoth lakes from a week ago. Occurred on a “Moderate” day.

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  15. #515
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    447
    Quote Originally Posted by westoxified View Post
    seen/heard on Saturday 4/4 on Mt. Ogden. solo.
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    one way to get sick.
    Beautiful

    Sent from ullr with love!
    LIVE IS NOT A CHAIRLIFT

  16. #516
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    A LSD Steakhouse somewhere in the Wasatch
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    11,482
    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    Whether or not Skier A should keep skiing is a personal decision. However, what Skier A should definitely not do, IMO, is publicly defend the behavior and declare that everyone should get to make their own decisions. Because then you get Skier B.

    What Skier A should do is whatever they choose, but quietly. Yet that seems to be impossible. Which I think makes some people wonder if some of the people who think they're Skier As are actually Bs.
    has anybody skied with 20,000 poster non skierD?
    is this dude like spats shit crazy
    or just post like it?
    oh and I skied with odin too
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    Yo poliassfuckers
    theres a special basement for your lame shit

  17. #517
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    50 miles E of Paradise
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    9,257
    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    And you have made your position quite clear, multiple times, why do you need to keep defending your actions/POV?
    Because he, like the rest of us are stuck inside and bored to death, with only furious masturbation and arguing on the internet for diversions?
    Check Out Ullr's Mobile Avalanche Safety Tools for iOS and Android
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  18. #518
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    One last point...public health is not about the individual, or individual action. It's about the aggregate, the group, the societal effects. Any one person has minimal effect, but large numbers of people do, good or bad.
    Sounds like why my insurance payments are so high. We all suffer for the sake of civilization.

  19. #519
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    Jan 2005
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    Access to Granlibakken
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBS View Post
    furious masturbation and arguing on the internet
    Arguably the same activities.

  20. #520
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    Oct 2004
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    50 miles E of Paradise
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    9,257
    ^^True
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  21. #521
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
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    outer spokanistan
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    231
    Quote Originally Posted by TBS View Post
    .... furious masturbation ....
    nwslider mentioned a GF
    perhaps if you asked nice ....

    .
    "we all do dumb shit when we're fucked up" mike tyson

  22. #522
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Ventura Highway in the Sunshine
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    Arguably the same activities.
    When was the last time an internet argument had a happy ending?

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  23. #523
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Pemberton, BC
    Posts
    1,573
    Mall Walker. Thank you..

  24. #524
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    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    20,031
    so instead of worrying about ever buddy going biking, hiking, skiing ect

    and having the out doors being swarmed

    they should all just go back to work
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  25. #525
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    Jan 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by westoxified View Post
    seen/heard on Saturday 4/4 on Mt. Ogden. solo.
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    one way to get sick.
    Believe that was a radio tower maintenance crew, getting creative with work commute.

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