The Ethics of Outdorr Recreation in Times of COVID-19

[TheK12]

Meanwhile In Costa Rica, it’s now illegal to go surfing....


https://www.instagram.com/p/B-THoy1H...=1h2urk4u6fecz



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[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Meanwhile In Costa Rica, it’s now illegal to go surfing....


https://www.instagram.com/p/B-THoy1H...=1h2urk4u6fecz



Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Dude wtf?

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Dude I know and his whole crew from Montana are on a huge SW Desert MTB road trip right now and posting like crazy on IG. I mean seriously? One guy even posted a story about "We all need to do our part and stay safe" in between posts about driving a thousand miles to shred. Da fuck man.

[frorider]

Meanwhile In Costa Rica, it’s now illegal to go surfing....


https://www.instagram.com/p/B-THoy1H...=1h2urk4u6fecz



Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

From what I’ve read, they closed the beaches to recreation. Surfing included.

So similar to closing parks etc

[Name Redacted]

Dude I know and his whole crew from Montana are on a huge SW Desert MTB road trip right now and posting like crazy on IG. I mean seriously? One guy even posted a story about "We all need to do our part and stay safe" in between posts about driving a thousand miles to shred. Da fuck man.

I've definitely got some friends out in Fruita getting all preachy about social distancing all while using the toilets at 18rd on a daily basis. Gimme a break.

[TG]

Dude I know and his whole crew from Montana are on a huge SW Desert MTB road trip right now and posting like crazy on IG. I mean seriously? One guy even posted a story about "We all need to do our part and stay safe" in between posts about driving a thousand miles to shred. Da fuck man.

post up their ig accounts
sure there are a few bored shut-ins here could waste some time shitting on their feeds

[snoboy]

Besides the Deputy, it's a volunteer staff. Some SAR units have suspended all training and meetings for the time being. Not sure what kind of response I'd expect right now if you needed a rescue in the backcountry.

Slow and limited. Hopefully not, but possibly even none... It's going to take a lot for a team to cover all the bases that they should be in terms of distancing etc. It may also take a toll on the team as each time they are called out, they will use up PPE supplies (that would be better off at the hospital or clinic) and possibly require members to self isolate afterwards. This may deplete both the team resources, and also affects members personal well being.

[tang]

Meanwhile, bc skiing has become the face of all things supposedly irresponsible in the age of covid-19...
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/s...gtype=Homepage

While I agree people should take it easy and stay at home (or at least close to home), I feel like the bc ski thing is being overblown. Like in this NYT article... people congregating in large groups on the trails (doubtful), going out without beacons (rare I'm sure), crowded parking lots (any diff from other hike/run/bike trailhead lots?)

Or other activities are getting a pass. Like on 9news this AM they showed a pic of a full berthoud lot and said "come on CO, we are better than this!"... and then cut to weather saying that it's a beautiful day to get outside on the trails for a hike or run.

Oh well, I guess I should get off the computer and get outside for a run now!

[mall walker]

^ the cars parked together thing really kills me. since when does everyone get there at the same time?? I leave full lots all winter long without seeing another soul.

whatever; in a week or two it’ll be the mtb people getting blamed we can only hope.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Yeah, I'm torn on this. On the one hand many people are absolutely capable of going backcountry skiing safely and responsibly in a way that is extraordinarily unlikely to further stress our healthcare system. On the other hand, the couple times I've been out since things went all weird, I've seen people violate social distancing protocols and I've seen more than a few intermediate skiers who were almost certainly new to ski touring going out in challenging conditions. I imagine some of these folks heading to the mountains are also making bad decisions on the way there and back. And I believe there has been (in Colorado) a bump in human triggered avalanches at time when the snow pack is actually somewhat predictable if you have a bit of sense.

Yes, the dangers of BC skiing are being overblown sensationalized. And the moralizing, shaming and authoritative statements from non-experts, including folks here I both like and respect, is both tedious and contributes to the us vs. them bullshit that inevitably emerges in a time of crisis. But when a thousand people show up at Loveland Pass, you know irresponsible shit is going down. I've personally seen large crowds and wacky behavior at obscure trailheads as well.

People who've been backcountry skiing for decades and have the sense and skill to make conservative choices aren't going to be overwhelming the health care system if they go out for a quick skin now and then. But some folks can't dial it back. And the pull that most of us feel to get out into the mountains isn't reserved for experts. The sheer volume of BC skiers we're seeing in Colorado tells me that accidents are going to happen. It reminds me of Tuckerman Ravine on a sunny Saturday in April: people with no clue having fun. Normally I'd say "good for you" and steer clear of the shit show. But right now the shit show has broader consequences. I may sneak out again soon if schedule and conditions permit for a dawn descent- in and out before the crowds arrive- but I expect it all to get shut down soon, and probably with good reason.

[John_B]

...

[Sky_Shoe]

Your chart is super outdated.

[frorider]

Hard to keep track of these covid threads but I don’t think this was posted: https://www.outsideonline.com/241109...XMR7QUxk#close

Back at the accident scene, everyone mills around talking. Someone mentions social distancing again. People chuckle nervously and back away from each other. Only after they depart does the potential cost of their actions sink in. More than 50 people were involved with the rescue, from civilian first responders to professional air-medical crews, and many on scene worked close enough to breathe on each other. “It was a holy-shit moment when I realized the number of people, not only search-and-rescue but the bystanders and Ophirites, who were interacting closely, touching each other,” Schroepfer says. “That showed me the potential for danger in these situations more than just putting the stress on our emergency services. We’re all really healthy people in these mountain communities, and the strong and the mighty were the ones who showed up during the rescue. So they’re the ones who could have it and not know it.”
Jamie was similarly concerned: “The virus was definitely on my mind when I got home. I immediately stripped off all my clothes, threw them in the laundry, and took a shower. I scrubbed the hell out of my body.”

[John_B]

......

[snowaddict91]

ISBD pretty much summed up my feelings. Personally, I am totally comfortable with going out by myself and getting some mellow turns in. People on social media keep lambasting BC skiing and talking about "just going for a road bike ride from home" which is at least as dangerous to me.

As far as the "no rescue team coming for you," as someone with SAR experience I treat every backcountry trip that way.

[mcski]

400 peeps show up at Tuckerman. Dude goes for a ride on Superior.

[kootenayskier]

In these weird times people are stressed and ready to emotionally over-react to the slightest provocation. I’m very conscious of responsibly managing my social exposure and risk of injury, and most skiers and bikers I know are doing the same, but the actions of a clueless few could easily fuck it up for the rest of us. Set modest goals, choose less obvious locations, spread out, avoid popular times, don’t post about it, and perhaps we can avoid the attention of the virtue police.

[mall walker]

In these weird times people are stressed and ready to emotionally over-react to the slightest provocation. I’m very conscious of responsibly managing my social exposure and risk of injury, and most skiers and bikers I know are doing the same, but the actions of a clueless few could easily fuck it up for the rest of us. Set modest goals, choose less obvious locations, spread out, avoid popular times, don’t post about it, and perhaps we can avoid the attention of the virtue police.

very very much this

[simple]

I want the virtue police to come for me so I know who to block from my feed. The whole concept of social media is stupid. The biggest complainer I know about this has had to take a break from Facebook before due to getting too heated over an issue. So take a break now. It isn't my fault you can't restrain yourself from being online every fucking waking minute.

Kill your television and even more so your Facebook.

[skiJ]

In these weird times people are stressed and ready to emotionally over-react to the slightest provocation. I’m very conscious of responsibly managing my social exposure and risk of injury, and most skiers and bikers I know are doing the same, but the actions of a clueless few could easily fuck it up for the rest of us. Set modest goals, choose less obvious locations, spread out, avoid popular times, don’t post about it, and perhaps we can avoid the attention of the virtue police.

thirded ^^^
with about three disclaimers...

- moving the crowd from the ski area to the trailhead solves nothing --
This seems obvious - but given the Front Range crowds last weekend apparently it is not ( obvious ) ;

- I believe I have read at least two separate distinct reports on runs on AT gear in the last two / three weeks --
This puts people in the backcountry without proper Safety experience nor Safety equipment...
while I am hopeful experienced backcountry skier will make decisions to promote Safety , I am of a stronger opinion that inexperienced backcountry skiers will make decisions that will put themselves AND others at risk - often in simple ignorance ;

- finally, my take on distancing and Stay-at-Home / shelter-at-Home principles...
IF you are driving to engage in activity, I believe it defeats the purpose.
If you can get to the snow from your door - without driving - go (!)
But If you have to drive - That is a choice (too) ;

is Stay-at-Home going to be effective ?
is it going to be worth it ?

it is worth at least three weeks of my life to give it a chance
( there are nearby covid deaths ; a friend is Home recovering with covid ; other friends are quarantined.
This has meaning to me. )

be well -
Please... be Safe.

Respectfully. tj

[altacoup]

thirded ^^^
with about three disclaimers...

- moving the crowd from the ski area to the trailhead solves nothing --
This seems obvious - but given the Front Range crowds last weekend apparently it is not ( obvious ) ;

- I believe I have read at least two separate distinct reports on runs on AT gear in the last two / three weeks --
This puts people in the backcountry without proper Safety experience nor Safety equipment...
while I am hopeful experienced backcountry skier will make decisions to promote Safety , I am of a stronger opinion that inexperienced backcountry skiers will make decisions that will put themselves AND others at risk - often in simple ignorance ;

- finally, my take on distancing and Stay-at-Home / shelter-at-Home principles...
IF you are driving to engage in activity, I believe it defeats the purpose.
If you can get to the snow from your door - without driving - go (!)
But If you have to drive - That is a choice (too) ;

is Stay-at-Home going to be effective ?
is it going to be worth it ?

it is worth at least three weeks of my life to give it a chance
( there are nearby covid deaths ; a friend is Home recovering with covid ; other friends are quarantined.
This has meaning to me. )

be well -
Please... be Safe.

Respectfully. tj

Leaving ski resorts open to uphill traffic means we have to have some facilities open. Exposing employees to all sorts of people. Seen a lot of California and Colorado plates in lcc post few days. Specifically in lcc bathrooms need to be open due to watershed. Those bathrooms need to be cleaned, exposing employees to visitors. If all you have to sacrifice in life is voluntarily missing a few months of skiing to help people’s health that seems trivial. If you can’t make that sacrifice seems pretty lame to me

[BCMtnHound]

Be informed, be prepared, be conservative. Stay close to home. And above all, stay healthy.
There are a lot of worse decisions people are making right now than going for a mellow skin/tour, MTB in the local hills, or float down a slow watercourse with a rod, and the therapeutic aspects of those activities have great value in these times. Just consider throwing the extra gear in the pack, double check the terrain, and please keep someone in the know of your plans. There will be plenty of time after we pass through this to render judgement on our collective follies.

[iriponsnow]

Here’s another angle- most hospitals have converted to CV/ ICU response & scrapped other services...... like the orthopod & OR staff that put your broken ankle/wrist/whatever back together.


So, if ya do need a surgery- Hospital would have to triage you for a day or so. Reactivate the OR & find an orthopod...... fix ur junk & then revert back to an ICU.


So don’t put anyone in this position.

[old goat]

Here’s another angle- most hospitals have converted to CV/ ICU response & scrapped other services...... like the orthopod & OR staff that put your broken ankle/wrist/whatever back together.


So, if ya do need a surgery- Hospital would have to triage you for a day or so. Reactivate the OR & find an orthopod...... fix ur junk & then revert back to an ICU.


So don’t put anyone in this position.

OR's are still available for trauma and other emergencies and for non emergencies like cancer surgery that can't wait months or longer for the virus to pass --although it varies from hospital to hospital. Hospital beds are a problem some places and will be a problem everywhere. Supplies are a problem now. UCDavis where my son works is a 625 bed hospital that as of yesterday had 12 Covid patients. There will soon be many more.

We don't all agree on what is ok to do and not to do. I hope we can all agree on this--more than ever before what each of us does impacts everyone else. If you get hurt bad there's a chance one of the 30 people it takes ti rescue you will give it to some of the others. If you get covid you've increased my chances of getting it. If you get the last ventilator the next person dies. If you stand too close I may get sick. If you take two packages of TP the next person does without. Given that, people have a right to be more judgmental than most of us are ordinarily comfortable with. That's going to be hard for a lot of Americans to tolerate, but we have no choice. What I hear in this thread and others is people, including me, making their own choices, their own risk assessments. For a lot of us cheating and getting away with it is a respected part of life--like a DB tugging on a jersey while the ref can't see. We can't think that way now--we have to follow the rules, including the ones we think make no sense.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

post up their ig accounts
sure there are a few bored shut-ins here could waste some time shitting on their feeds

Yeah I'm not doing that. The latest IG stories are them ripping the gnar in Sedona. Riding shit like White Line, etc. All very competent rippers, but everyone wrecks. Frorider's post is exactly my point. Fucking mountain bike racing pre-season needs to be kinda put on the back burner right now. Seriously. I've done my fair share of selfish shit, but this is ridiculous.

Shit, I felt weird about taking a mellow solo road bike ride today where I rode from my house and to my house and didn't stop anywhere. You could argue that it's hypocritical if you wanted, but I see a big difference between that and driving 2000 miles to shred the gnar in a big group.