The Ethics of Outdorr Recreation in Times of COVID-19

[Lone Star]

This is a theme we always knew was there, but never knew quite the depth of the “mt locals” and rural entitlement problem.

They rely on metro hospitals for real emergency services but dont support those facilities day to day, year to year

Their economies rely on metro and traveller populationS, but they look down upon them and hate them, and want them out

They rely on state and federal tax dollars to fund the infrastructure that allows good, people, and service in and out but they mostly just look out for themselves when shit hits.

some of them may even pay less property taxes to support these systems than the second homeowners they all hate. of course they were fine with taking that homeowner's money to build his house, clean the house weekly, do the gardening and landscaping, etc etc

[toast2266]

I actually don't really mind the second homer owners being here. They pay property taxes, and at least are nominally part of the community. If you own and maintain a million dollar home here, then sure, whatever. Use it.

It's the people that are straight up pandemic tourists that bother me. All they did was look at a map and say "that looks like a fun place to try to avoid being infected" (as they bring the infection along with them).

And it matters because, aside from the documented fact that they're infecting people in our community, they're going to get our forests shut down. Too many people at the trailheads makes the land managers close access, as has happened in lots of other places.

When things are normal, the tourists don't really bother me. I live in a tourist town, so getting annoyed with tourists is... dumb. But things aren't normal now, and these tourists aren't here for normal reasons.

[Ski220]

In the last three weeks I haven’t seen an out of state plate at the trailheads, now on a holiday weekend it’s over half of the vehicles.

I get it now
So does MMMSKI

they should be able to stay there if they want as long as they aren't bouncing back and forth between homes.

That is exactly what TBS is complaining about. These "entitled" persons have jobs where they can "work from home". Now it's a holiday weekend and they don't have to be available for work. So it's "Let's go up to the cabin for the weekend".

Don't agree with Gunnison at all. If you own property, it's your right to use it. It is also the right of the state to impose quarantines. If the "stay at home order" is not a legal order but a "request" such as the "strongly advised travel restriction" around NYC, then all bets are off.

[TahoeJ]

I actually don't really mind the second homer owners being here. They pay property taxes, and at least are nominally part of the community. If you own and maintain a million dollar home here, then sure, whatever. Use it.

This is far too reasonable for TGR. Where's the anger and xenophobia??

[Ottime]

Jesus Fucking Christ on a pogo stick, how hard did you have to "think" to come up with that tortured scenario?

This shit ain't hard. Those vehicles had parking stickers showing that they own homes at the Black Butte Ranch resort. Traveling nurses can't afford that neighborhood - they couldn't afford the monthly HOA fees. The closest hospital is 25 miles away, the other 30. There are lots of short term rentals way closer and way cheaper than here.

Keep trying.

Toast, our town hasn't shut down ST rentals yet. Not sure why. Even setting aside the STAY THE FUCK AT HOME order, why someone would want to visit is beyond me - more than half of the restaurants are shut, the remainder only offer takeout. All retail is closed, local golf course is still in winter condition. The local market has soviet-level bare shelves. The MTB system is better 25 miles away (where there's more/cheaper rentals) and the hiking ain't no great shakes with snow still on the ground.

Unless they are fleeing the Covefe, like you saw. But no, that can't be it!

Our zone ended up closing access to all beaches, parks and trails in the county to keep the tourist away. Just closing ST rentals is not enough unfortunately, so be careful what you wish for.

Blame your governments, local and federal, for fucking this goose. People are only reacting as one would expect Americans to act. We have the freedom of movement. It is obvious here that plenty of TGR posters do not Shelter at Home, but are willing to drive 20 or more miles to get their rocks off. Look back through this thread and others to see people posting about driving way out of their neighborhood, town, and county to access a trail head. They say they are pretty smart, so not going to infect other people. I bet every single person at every trailhead you come across feels the same thing. Americans are taught from day one to give zero fucks about others and take care of number one. So, yay, that is what is happening. Ask you leaders to drop the hammer, or suck it up and expect visitors. Americans are not going to do the right things otherwise.

We've closed everything down this week, and we have the lowest rates of infection by county in all of CA, even though we abut the second highest infected county. Our local community (mostly) gives a shit and plays by the rules, but the people next door still think they can drive over the mountain and come walk along our coastline, cause, ya know, they want to get out of the apartment in the sprawl. Of course, I have a friend who lives close to me who drove 400 miles on Wednesday to go schralp some pow, cause the surf and trails closed here. So there are assholes everywhere.

[altacoup]

^^^
Truth

[nickwm21]

Even in these strange times I guess one thing is consistent... Mountain locals complaining about short term rentals.


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[TBS]

^^^Not complaining about short term rentals. I'm complaining about people that are unable to figure out what STAY THE FUCK AT HOME, ESSENTIAL TRAVEL ONLY means.

OK Karen, tell me this, why do you care how many people are at the trailhead? Why do you care where they are from? Why are you at the trailhead anyway? You can't go out shaming people for doing the same thing you are clearly doing. Live and let live, just stay away from them, and they'll stay away from you.

OK Pendejo, because you struggle with simple concepts, I will have to spell it out for you:
1. I don't care how many people are on our trail system. Even during middle of high tourist season there's enough mileage in our system that people can maintain distance.
2. I was at our LOCAL trailhead because under the Oregon Governor's STAY THE FUCK AT HOME order, outdoor recreation in your LOCAL AREA is OK, even encouraged.
3. Here is the Oregon Governor's order. Explain to me how ESSENTIAL TRAVEL includes driving a minimum of 150 miles to your second home to recreate for the weekend.

My MIL was bitching about the family next door coming and staying at their 2nd home. They are from NYC. Who the fuck wouldn't leave NYC right now? They are literally running out of places to put the bodies. What reasonable person who owned a rural home in CO wouldn't take their entire family there and get away from that shit if they could?

It's attitudes like this that have caused Montana, Hawaii, AK, AZ, FL, Maine, VT and a bunch of other states to require a 14 day quarantine if you enter. I'd be all for that here, but implementation would be near impossible.

I'm all about people staying in their own neighborhood and just trying not to go out into public as much as possible, but you gotta be realistic. Shit like Gunnison is doing, where they are kicking out second homeowners is complete BS in my opinion. They own the property, pay taxes, contribute in some way at least part of the year, they should be able to stay there if they want as long as they aren't bouncing back and forth between homes.

One more time - explain to me how traveling a minimum of 3 hours to your second/third/nth dwelling to hang out qualifies as ESSENTIAL TRAVEL.

How many aspirin do you have to take before you try to think? Or do you need opiates because the pain is so intense?

When things are normal, the tourists don't really bother me. I live in a tourist town, so getting annoyed with tourists is... dumb. But things aren't normal now, and these tourists aren't here for normal reasons.

I have no problem with tourists in normal times either – well, except you can’t make a left turn onto our main street during daylight hours. But this ain’t normal, and tourism is shut down by the Governor’s STAY AT HOME order anyway.

Question for you Toast - how is MT's 14 day quarantine order getting implemented? Road blocks on I90?

[pureantigravity]

There are Stay At Home Orders In WA, OR & CA. I don’t remember seeing exclusions for driving to your vacation house.

Can I come to your house and park my RV in front? Be like this

LOL. That reminds me about a few brainless movies I should watch for entertainment this next while.

[Hott Butt Mud]

Buncha NIMBY mother fuckers here.

[pipedream]

Buncha city slickers who should sack-up and move to the mountains.

Oh what's that, you don't want to live somewhere it snows 400"? Then stay the fuck home

[toast2266]

Question for you Toast - how is MT's 14 day quarantine order getting implemented? Road blocks on I90?

As far as I know, there isn't much enforcement regarding travelers. There's realistically no enforceable restriction on travel - there's a so many exceptions to the stay at home order that if people want to travel, it's not really possible to stop them.

The ban on short term rentals is just local (not statewide), and supposedly they're revoking the license of any property owner / manager who violates it.

So pretty much everyone I know is treating it as "be cool, take precautions, stay local." And that has turned into "stay local, and avoid well known areas because they're overrun with dickheads from Seattle."

[AK47bp]

Buncha city slickers who should sack-up and move to the mountains.

Oh what's that, you don't want to live somewhere it snows 400"? Then stay the fuck home

Snoqualmie Pass isn’t a mountain town, it’s a highway rest stop with a ski hill.


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[hatchgreenchile]

At second trailhead (usually empty) there were two vehicles - one from Cali, one from Missouri

Oh, the horror.

[lifelinksplit]

In granite county MT I dont think there's any enforcement but there are quarantine signs at interstate exits, entrance to towns, forest service roads etc. I consider myself lucky to live in a town of 900, fairly isolated and still have a job and easy access to outdoor recreation. I floated for 8 hours yesterday. In that time I talked to one person from prob 30ft away before i put in, they were the only other vehicle. After that saw and interacted with 0 people and loaded up at the boat ramp with exactly 0 cars. I know I'm a horrible person for recreating and putting so many lives in danger....

[new yabyum]

Any fish?

[f=ma]

Snoqualmie Pass isn’t a mountain town, it’s a highway rest stop with a ski hill.


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Hahaha so true. I've ran into so many entitled douche bags at the Pass this past few seasons. Telling me to go back to Seattle and shit. Only to find out that they work for Amazon....the fucking irony...

[lifelinksplit]

Any fish?

Nope. Wife was streamer fishing and had a bunch of follows but nothing to net. Snowing again now.

[mmmm...pow!]

Even in these strange times I guess one thing is consistent...City slickers feeling self entitled and being oblivious (or just not giving a fuck) to the effects they have on mountain communities.


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Cleaned that up a bit for you

[phatty]

Hahaha so true. I've ran into so many entitled douche bags at the Pass this past few seasons. Telling me to go back to Seattle and shit. Only to find out that they work for Amazon....the fucking irony...

Bingo. Half the folks up there work in Seattle. It's not a town if you have to drive 20mi to the real town to buy groceries.

[pureantigravity]

A lot of the vitriol online by #concernedCitizens is really just in-group-behavior designed to further social-affirmation and enhance perceived virtue-signalling.
Wait till the reports of leaks and illegal data harvesting come out next year.
People gonna be wishing they still used the phone and/or kept their mouths shut.

[Hott Butt Mud]

Buncha city slickers who should sack-up and move to the mountains.

Oh what's that, you don't want to live somewhere it snows 400"? Then stay the fuck home

Who said that? I'd bet a lot of people even used to live in the mountains but for life reasons have moved out.

Get over yourself. Most people are staying home. Everyone needs to stop fucking crying about all the people at trailheads.

[The SnowShow]

Everyone is so entitled, it’s nauseating.

[pipedream]

Bingo. Half the folks up there work in Seattle. It's not a town if you have to drive 20mi to the real town to buy groceries.

By that logic neither is Big Sky, Breckenridge, etc. I mean, most folks drive into a real town to avoid getting gouged out the ass on expensive mountain town "grocery store" prices. The liquor store in Whistler comes to mind...

[Ottime]

Man. I shopped at the grocery store in whistler on year. Figured out quickly it would be just a bit more expensive to eat out instead of cook in. And more vacation like.