The Ethics of Outdorr Recreation in Times of COVID-19

[muted]

Sharing another multi-agency rescue account (4wd/off-road accident) where many appear to be operating in potential harms way of covid. https://www.facebook.com/12996133534...699585207/?d=n

I'm amazed how many rescues there are for hikers. MTBers I thought were the ones that took all the hard falls.

[old goat]

I'm amazed how many rescues there are for hikers. MTBers I thought were the ones that took all the hard falls.

There are a lot more hikers.

[bodywhomper]

What does recently mean? Current CDC recommendation is isolate for 10 days after a positive test and no symptoms. With symptoms at least 10 days since onset of symptoms, no fever for 24 hours, and symptoms "improved". Retesting not mandatory. So depending on how long before the injury the people had been tested they and the SAR may or may not have been ok.
I'd like to see it be a crime to not follow the CDC recommendation for isolation after a positive test--although for some folks by the time they get their test result the isolation period will already be over.

Are the cdc standards for when somebody is not contagious based on evidence? They seem to be partially based on the lack of available testing and timely testing results in the us. I was under the impression that many countries were testing (nasal) to confirm that an individual was not longer shedding (by respiratory?). A coworker is repatriating in NZ right now and will be tested multiple times during the quarantine period before being able to leave the hotel.

And there’s still the potential shedding out the ass “problem.”

[mall walker]

I'm amazed how many rescues there are for hikers. MTBers I thought were the ones that took all the hard falls.

I follow that SLCOSAR page on fb and it’s stunning the ratio of hikers to everyone else. The barrier to entry is just very low I guess.

[teledad]

There are a lot more hikers.

And "hiker" means anyone on foot, including people walking 1/2 mile down to the river in flip flops carrying a case of beer and tripping.

[zion zig zag]

I follow that SLCOSAR page on fb and it’s stunning the ratio of hikers to everyone else. The barrier to entry is just very low I guess.

And overheated doggos. Poor dog.

[mall walker]

And overheated doggos. Poor dog.

ah yeah that one got me this morning... and I have never understood the popularity of oly as a summer hike. 11am in July? it's low elevation, faces due west, and has full sun exposure. and it's relentlessly steep for ~4k or something.

[AdironRider]

Hiking is what non-athletes do, being that uncoordinated is going to lead to an uptick in injury. Anyone with any semblance of athleticism is probably going to step it up a bit and bring along some skis or a bike or the like.

It also has a large quotient of city slickers with basically zero experience outdoors outside of that one time in college they hiked a 1/2 mile to a waterfall to party.

[old goat]

Are the cdc standards for when somebody is not contagious based on evidence? They seem to be partially based on the lack of available testing and timely testing results in the us. I was under the impression that many countries were testing (nasal) to confirm that an individual was not longer shedding (by respiratory?). A coworker is repatriating in NZ right now and will be tested multiple times during the quarantine period before being able to leave the hotel.

I'm assuming it's both, don't know for a fact. The CDC does say that if your doctor elects to test you you need 2 negative tests 24 hours apart. My guess is that given the turnaround time most docs are not going to be doing follow up testing. I got an email from Kaiser that due to lack of test materials they were limiting testing again but if you could get a test somewhere else they would pay for it. Anyway, if it is true that there are 10X as many undiagnosed infections as test proven infections SAR is probably more likely to get infected from someone who doesn't know they were infected than from someone who does. More likely to get infected from fellow SAR than from victim (many more rescuers than victims), and probably more likely to get infected at the grocery store from some freedom loving MAGA.

And "hiker" means anyone on foot, including people walking 1/2 mile down to the river in flip flops carrying a case of beer and tripping.

Everyone knows you sacrifice your body to save the beer. Which makes no sense since the SAR will certainly "lose" the beer.

And overheated doggos. Poor dog.

It takes some experience--usually negative--to learn how to judge a dog's capabilities on the trail, that they'll go until they can't. I learned it by carrying a 90# Irish Setter down from the summit of Mt. Tallac with torn paws.

[hatchgreenchile]

The barrier to entry is just very low I guess.

Well yeah, you just need boots and a pack and away you go.
That's the point.

[mall walker]

Well yeah, you just need boots and a pack and away you go.
That's the point.

Around here it seems like all you need are vans and a boombox and away you go

[old goat]

Well yeah, you just need boots and a pack and away you go.
That's the point.

90% of the day hikers I see have neither. Including me unless T storms in the forecast or long enough hike that I need to carry water.
And I can't say I've ever carried the "10 essentials" unless it was a multi-day hike. I'll send a prize* to anyone who can list the 10 essentials without looking it up. Honor system.

*Your choice of a Little Orphan Annie decoder ring or a lamp shaped like a woman's leg.

[abraham]

Around here it seems like all you need are vans and a boombox and away you go

I think that's a trail runner not a hiker

[Conundrum]

*Your choice of a Little Orphan Annie decoder ring or a lamp shaped like a woman's leg.

What did the rest of the woman look like? Need to know what I'm competing for.

[hatchgreenchile]

90% of the day hikers I see have neither. Including me unless T storms in the forecast or long enough hike that I need to carry water.
And I can't say I've ever carried the "10 essentials" unless it was a multi-day hike. I'll send a prize* to anyone who can list the 10 essentials without looking it up. Honor system.

*Your choice of a Little Orphan Annie decoder ring or a lamp shaped like a woman's leg.

Guilty - I had to look it up. I thought cordage was on the list.
I like AdironRider's take on hikers = non-athletic chumps and city slickers, let's roll with that.

[teledad]

Are the cdc standards for when somebody is not contagious based on evidence?

Explanation here: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...isolation.html

[paulster2626]

90% of the day hikers I see have neither. Including me unless T storms in the forecast or long enough hike that I need to carry water.
And I can't say I've ever carried the "10 essentials" unless it was a multi-day hike. I'll send a prize* to anyone who can list the 10 essentials without looking it up. Honor system.

*Your choice of a Little Orphan Annie decoder ring or a lamp shaped like a woman's leg.

I'll have a go.

1. Cell phone
2. Headphones
3. Sunglasses
4. A snack
5. Some water
6. Booze of some kind
7. Couple dog treats (you can give them to dogs that hot chicks are walking, don't put them in the same pocket as #4)
8. Appropriate socks and footwear
9.
10.

Cant' think of anything else because it's just a walk in the woods who puts that much thought in to it?

[teledad]

You forgot Bluetooth speaker.

[~mikey b]

I talked to a kid blasting music over a bluetooth speaker last year who was wearing headphones

he said he needed to talk to his girl but the music was too loud

[PB]

Could you still hear the bluetooth speaker after it was tossed in the creek?

[old goat]

I'll have a go.

1. Cell phone
2. Headphones
3. Sunglasses
4. A snack
5. Some water
6. Booze of some kind
7. Couple dog treats (you can give them to dogs that hot chicks are walking, don't put them in the same pocket as #4)
8. Appropriate socks and footwear
9.
10.

Cant' think of anything else because it's just a walk in the woods who puts that much thought in to it?

Left out cannabis and a delivery system. Could substitute for booze on the basis of weight but don't bring a giant water pipe.

[paulster2626]

Left out cannabis and a delivery system. Could substitute for booze on the basis of weight but don't bring a giant water pipe.

Perfect!

1. Cell phone
2. Headphones
3. Sunglasses
4. A snack
5. Some water
6. Booze of some kind
7. Couple dog treats (you can give them to dogs that hot chicks are walking, don't put them in the same pocket as #4)
8. Appropriate socks and footwear
9. Weed
10. Bluetooth Speaker

We're all set, then. The 10 Essentials™.

Bonus:
11. Drone camera (louder the better)

[schindlerpiste]

A mask.

[~mikey b]

FOR THE SAKE OF WINTER, WE MUST STAY VIGILANT
29 July 2020
Open Letter from Vail Resorts CEO Rob Katz to Communities, Guests and Employees

What will the 2020-21 ski and snowboard season look like? We are still in the heat of July – still celebrating the successful opening of our resorts for summer – and that is the number one question we are getting across our 34 North American resorts. What lies ahead for winter? We remain optimistic that we’ll have a great ski season. And we are actively preparing our resorts to ensure our employees and guests have a safe and enjoyable experience this winter amid the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic. But we also know that without strong, healthy communities, none of that matters.

We often talk about how our mountain resorts and communities are joined at the hip. We operate in the same ecosystem, we need each other to succeed and survive. The importance of this partnership was evident in the collective effort it took to safely reopen for summer. But that was not the end of the race – it was the beginning. For the sake of winter, we must stay vigilant with safety as our number one priority – now and through the entire winter season. There are two things we collectively must keep top of mind:

1. We cannot get complacent. With the recent COVID-19 resurgence in the United States and around the world, we need to assume that we will still be dealing with the impacts of the virus throughout the winter season. Even if new COVID-19 cases decline – nationally or locally – we must assume the virus will reemerge. We cannot relax restrictions or protocols. We cannot get caught trying to play catch up to the virus during the ski season. We have to remain out front in our approach. Exacerbating that reality is the fact that each one of our communities is a destination for visitors from countless other cities. This is our greatest strength, but it can also be a weakness. We cannot only look at the COVID-19 data in our local communities. By welcoming people to our resorts from other locations we need to realize that we will be taking on their COVID-19 experience as well. Therefore, for us to be successful we need to enforce protocols and procedures now that can work all season.

2. Safety is not optional. At Vail Resorts, we are strong advocates for face coverings and believe that in public gathering spaces – indoors and outdoors – everyone needs to wear a face covering at all times. There should be limited exceptions in areas designated for eating and drinking, but just as other tourist destinations have required, we must ensure that face coverings are not optional if you are walking around with a drink or snack in your hand. We also believe that physical distancing between unrelated parties is a must – which means events or other public gatherings that don’t allow for 6 feet of distancing should be restricted or limited. This goes for gatherings in town and on the mountain. We need to accept that this will likely be the reality for the full season. We are certainly not experts on infectious disease and cannot dictate the local regulations of our communities, but these are simple measures that will contribute to our collective success. And they need to be executed now, so they become ingrained well before the ski season begins.

To our guests, visitors, employees and residents: We need your support, compassion and understanding that staying vigilant in our communities now, and in the months ahead, will help us all have a successful winter. While we cannot completely control the behaviors of visitors, we are committed to enhancing our communications to our guests to ensure they at least understand our expectations of them when they come. We all know enforcement can be a challenge, but with repetition and local alignment, we can ensure people comply and respect this approach to safety.

COVID-19 has significantly impacted every one of our mountain resort communities. The closure of our resorts in March came with a heavy financial and human cost to our company, as well as to so many businesses and people throughout the towns, cities, counties, provinces and states where we operate. In the midst of these challenges, it has been inspiring to see how everyone has come together to support one another and help chart a course forward. We cannot lose that momentum.

All of us want to protect our local economies and our communities. All of us want a great ski and snowboard season. To make that a reality – all of us must remain vigilant. Together, let’s set a tone and demonstrate that we are leaders in offering the safest and most enjoyable experience, anywhere in the world.

[AK47bp]

Perfect!

1. Cell phone
2. Headphones
3. Sunglasses
4. A snack
5. Some water
6. Booze of some kind
7. Couple dog treats (you can give them to dogs that hot chicks are walking, don't put them in the same pocket as #4)
8. Appropriate socks and footwear
9. Weed
10. Bluetooth Speaker

We're all set, then. The 10 Essentials.

Bonus:
11. Drone camera (louder the better)

Umm. Selfie stick?

It’s like you’ve never been in the wilderness.


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