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  1. #76
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    Anesthesia machines could certainly be used as ventilators in a pinch although they have limited ability to do some of the more sophisticated ventilation modes needed by patients with severe lung conditions like CV19. (Can we just call it COVID. There's never going to be another one is there?) Good point Garfield.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Anesthesia machines could certainly be used as ventilators in a pinch although they have limited ability to do some of the more sophisticated ventilation modes needed by patients with severe lung conditions like CV19. (Can we just call it COVID. There's never going to be another one is there?) Good point Garfield.
    You piqued my curiosity further, this has some good info. https://www.reddit.com/r/respiratory...esia_folks_rt/

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garfield3d View Post
    One important consideration is that if a trauma patient needs surgery, then a lot of those patients would need anesthesia for the OR, which would then require mechanical ventilation for surgery.

    These devices also require high-level sterilization after use. After surgery, that's not too big of a deal, but I'm not sure if extra sterilization would be needed after use for a COVID-19 patient. Just something to keep in mind.
    respectfully,
    Routine inhalation anesthesia does Not require a Ventilator --
    as is pointed - out above, an anesthesia machine could be used to provide ventilation support, though my antiquated experience, it would require a person to deliver the air / oxygen by manually compressing the Bag

    Ventilators are certainly more sophisticated machines...


    still, I think the point is well made by many :
    Reduce your risk of needing medical care : the extent of this is still not-known--
    everything we can reasonably due to reduce the load on health care (systems) over the next four weeks are going to be defendable decisions...

    This morning's newspaper reports an increase in mental health Emergencies :
    Do you really want to be there now with an avoidable traumatic injury (?)

    ... Patience. go for a Walk ( excepting urban environments ) ...
    More Patience...

    Please, Be Safe. tj

  4. #79
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    Many hospitals are not busy at all, but that is not the point. The point is As OG and a few others have pointed out is supplies and capacity. A ventilator or anesthetic machine, bed, staff, PPE, etc, tied up in another department is one less that is available when/if it hits the fan. The challenge right now for many hospitals is how much other medicine do they perform or postpone while waiting. Do you do cancer surgery now that is necessary, but maybe not critical, or what, and potentially get bump for several months when it may have become critical. My wife just had hand surgery due to infection...it couldn't wait. She paid her dues by sending a box of N95 masks we had from the fire to our daughter at U of C med center to distribute amongst her colleagues .

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  5. #80
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    before you even get to the recreating Consider at the root of it all you are much less likely to infect/get infected if you stay home
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    before you even get to the recreating Consider at the root of it all you are much less likely to infect/get infected if you stay home
    How would i get sick if i am only in my car and in the hills away from anyone??


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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  7. #82
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    well whom might you run into, how might you get infected or how might you infect someone, or leave some thing somewhere , keep in mind we don't know if you currently got it ?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    well whom might you run into, how might you get infected or how might you infect someone, or leave some thing somewhere , keep in mind we don't know if you currently got it ?
    So basically “anything could happen”

    I dont buy it, but you all could have guessed that by now.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    How would i get sick if i am only in my car and in the hills away from anyone??


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    You get it from the SAR team that had to find you because you broke your ankle on a wet rock, and couldn’t walk out, perhaps?
    Forum Cross Pollinator

  10. #85
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    The Ethics of Outdorr Recreation in Times of COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    You get it from the SAR team that had to find you because you broke your ankle on a wet rock, and couldn’t walk out, perhaps?
    Or, he’s asymptomatic (and is not aware) and infects them...

  11. #86
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    Anesthesiologist here. Ventilators are not sterilized between cases and there has never been a documented case of disease transmission from a ventilator.

    True they cannot do the sophisticated vent settings required in ARDS.




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    I rip the groomed on tele gear

  12. #87
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    There we go, hearing from the experts again. Can't we just post falsehoods, rumors and mistruths without all the facts....geeeeze

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  13. #88
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    The Ethics of Outdorr Recreation in Times of COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    You get it from the SAR team that had to find you because you broke your ankle on a wet rock, and couldn’t walk out, perhaps?
    So i stay home and bike around the openspace and break my leg buts thats OK. Same difference


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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    So i stay home and bike around the openspace and break my leg buts thats OK. Same difference


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Don’t break your leg.

    We are biking xc and flat track that I can bike to from my home. The chance of a fall in this terrain is pretty damn low. If a fall occurred it is very unlikely to result in a broken bone. Not raging down slope. Not hitting any downhill terrain. Kind of almost boring. But it is getting out and getting some exercise.

    Go out. Minimize your driving. Each mile on the road increases your chances of an accident. Does not have to be your fault. Could be a patch of ice. Or a fucked up pothole.

    Take it down two or three notches and do activities you are well versed in, and can perform without mistakes. Not a time to go learn how to ski or motocross. Take it slow.

    Don’t break your leg.

    But if you do. Accidents do happen. Even when we are being careful. But at least you are not hurt because you were pushing it. That would be selfish.

  15. #90
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    Hm! I wasn't aware of the distinction between anesthesiology and ICU ventilators. Thanks for the insight guys. It sounds like ICU vents can be taken to the OR, but the converse isn't true (except maybe in particularly, uh, sub-optimal situations). I stand corrected.

    A question for Detrusor about not needing to sterilize ventilators between cases - Are you talking about the respiratory/pressure lines vs the tubing for the ventilator? Just want to make sure I understand the picture properly.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    So i stay home and bike around the openspace and break my leg buts thats OK. Same difference


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Yeah, I get that, and I will be going road riding when the weather cooperates (if I still can). I was just pointing out one of a thousand examples of how you can come into contact with other people.
    Be safe!
    Forum Cross Pollinator

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garfield3d View Post
    Hm! I wasn't aware of the distinction between anesthesiology and ICU ventilators. Thanks for the insight guys. It sounds like ICU vents can be taken to the OR, but the converse isn't true (except maybe in particularly, uh, sub-optimal situations). I stand corrected.

    A question for Detrusor about not needing to sterilize ventilators between cases - Are you talking about the respiratory/pressure lines vs the tubing for the ventilator? Just want to make sure I understand the picture properly.
    While we wait for detrusor to answer, my recollection (which gets dimmer by the day) is that the tubing that the good air goes in through and the bad air comes out through is disposable. And here I thought detrusor was an unusually well informed urologist. Please correct me about the tubing if I'm wrong.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    While we wait for detrusor to answer, my recollection (which gets dimmer by the day) is that the tubing that the good air goes in through and the bad air comes out through is disposable. And here I thought detrusor was an unusually well informed urologist. Please correct me about the tubing if I'm wrong.
    Haha. I had a urologist who was pretty bright, so I can imagine that. As for the tubing, I thought they came in both disposable and reusable flavors, but I'm starting to think that I've misremembered a detail somewhere.

  19. #94
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    The Ethics of Outdorr Recreation in Times of COVID-19

    Posting link to hacksaw’s letter:

    https://www.facebook.com/american.av...402710/?type=3

    I don’t know how to easily copy/paste or attach the image of the letter from my phone
    Last edited by bodywhomper; 03-25-2020 at 11:34 PM.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garfield3d View Post
    Haha. I had a urologist who was pretty bright, so I can imagine that. As for the tubing, I thought they came in both disposable and reusable flavors, but I'm starting to think that I've misremembered a detail somewhere.
    Vent circuits are disposable

  21. #96
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    The Ethics of Outdorr Recreation in Times of COVID-19

    Here’s a twist to this conversation.

    Shit IS serious, so are all legal norms ok to be suspended?

    Is it OK if a local municipality illegally bans users from accessing Federal lands, like what happened in San Juan county, CO?

    Its illegal to restrict access to fed lands, the sheriff does not have that authority.

    But is everyone OK with ceding unconstitutional powers to local sheriffs and who knows who else? As long as they have some rationale about protecting the “local” population?


    What if they had to arrest someone but just decided to shoot them since they might have covid?

    If they just suspended SAR that wouldnt be legal either, but why not?

    https://coloradosun.com/2020/03/26/c...rton-colorado/


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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    Here’s a twist to this conversation.

    Shit IS serious, so are all legal norms ok to be suspended?

    Is it OK if a local municipality illegally bans users from accessing Federal lands, like what happened in San Juan county, CO?

    Its illegal to restrict access to fed lands, the sheriff does not have that authority.

    But is everyone OK with ceding unconstitutional powers to local sheriffs and who knows who else? As long as they have some rationale about protecting the “local” population?


    What if they had to arrest someone but just decided to shoot them since they might have covid?

    If they just suspended SAR that wouldnt be legal either, but why not?

    https://coloradosun.com/2020/03/26/c...rton-colorado/


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    We've all been wondering that. We need a test case.

  23. #98
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    States, counties and cities have legal authority to quarantine people/communities to stop the spread of infectious disease. I suspect limiting access to certain lands fits in that power.

    Apparently the federal government does not (except in closing state boarders.)




    I didn't realize dental anesthesiologists was a thing.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  24. #99
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    Apparently the federal government does not (except in closing state boarders.)
    In cases of public safety the Federal Gov. does indeed have the authority to close any lands that are administered by the Federal Gov.

    Whether or not that fits in with a quarantine is debatable.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

  25. #100
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    The Ethics of Outdorr Recreation in Times of COVID-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    In cases of public safety the Federal Gov. does indeed have the authority to close any lands that are administered by the Federal Gov.

    Whether or not that fits in with a quarantine is debatable.
    A good example of this is when the bureau of reclamation closed Folsom Dam Road after 9/11 for public and infrastructure safety. It was used as a major arterial commuter roadway. Total shit show after its closure. It’s still closed and a new road/bridge was built.

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