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  1. #51
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    Just to add a new dimension to the discussion, the health care system is being g massively tasked right now. I just heard from a Portland nurse friend that is his the COVID-19 nurse for the next two weeks and has no as in zero masks for the foreseeable future. Fortunately all their patients ts have come up negative, but how long will that last. He will get infected sooner or later, and his wife has a 94 hear old father who she can't visit. My daughter at U of C med center is being rationed one N95 mask per week and has to use her surgical.mask indefinitely. This shit is real. Sure some hospitals.are sending people home, but this will not hit us as a gentle breeze, but as a fuckin' tsunami in the next few days/weeks. Let's hope this is wrong, but it it is right, do you want to be the one deciding who gets to live or die?

    Let's keep it mellow and stay out of the health care system until this quiets down. While the stay at home attitude until this passes, and then spend your money here is pretty shitty, for the time being it may be best.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  2. #52
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    Yeah, then what is good for the goose is good for the gander. No mountain locals at the trailheads either


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by romeo tango View Post

    "boredom, tyler, thats whats wrong.
    how do you beat boredom tyler?
    adventure, adventure tyler!"

    This! If people aren't spreading their germs it's none of your fucking business what they do in the mountains. The whole "strain on local resources" is just an excuse to keep people away that's based in a tribalism and a fear of the unknown from "foreigners". If you're telling people to stay away and then you're going out and hiking or climbing in your local mountains then you're just a hypocrite.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    How many mountain locals have driven down to Denver or Grand Junction or Durango in the last week and gotten supplies? Gassed up, hit the grocery, liquor, and costco?

    You’re the ones living in locations with far too few hospital beds and sponging off the capacity in. Ig towns. Spreading your virus around coming into town shopping but boy youll piss and moan if city folks hit the trailheads. But THEY should stay away. Not you rural freeloaders, but THEM

    How about you diseased mountain fucks stay quarantined? And YOU fucks stay away from the trailheads.

    Endangering the rest of us, selfish.




    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Spot on!

  5. #55
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    There are two parts to this. Should anyone one be traveling at all? So if you go with that people shouldn't be going to resort or rec communities as they should be just hunkering down where they are. After that I think it goes into tribalism which we have certainly seen here in Golden. One lady has caused quite a stink/campaign of sorts. She went to the Resorts homeowner page and told them to go home. Basically if you stay here and you get sick you take away from resources from locals and we don't have much.

    this has been posted all over the place since she was blocked at the homeowner site
    \
    This is a very insightful and heartfelt plea from my friend to the out of town seasonal home owners of this town. You guys are not exempt.
    “I have to point out the reality, respectfully, that if you choose to come here and you get sick, there are very few hospital beds in Golden. There is only one, maybe two ventilators available at any given time. While you might think this is a safer place to be, you could be a vector of infection, transporting more of the virus here and unloading it on our community that has many, many elders and immunodeficiency people who will need the few medical services we have here available to them.
    If we reach a triage situation in our small hospital, which is likely in the very near future, as we have seen repeatedly in Europe, many people will be turned away and the doctors and nurses will be forced to choose who lives and who dies. Many of those critical patents will be relatives and beloved locals, grandparents and their children’s friends from school. The majority of the ill will be known to, and loved by, our front line workers. These heroic caregivers will be in an already impossible situation made even more unbearable by the very personal nature of this tight knit, small town, community. Please don’t add to the heartbreak by being the one to make more people sick, or potentially taking up one of the few beds here forcing a grandparent or a local child who is fighting cancer and can’t also fight the virus without the ventilator you are using, to be turned away and left to die.
    You think you are young and healthy and will recover if you become ill, but maybe you drink too much or indulge in unhealthy foods and reckless lifestyle choices that have silently weakened your immune system. Perhaps you live with cortisol elevating stress or have an undiagnosed heart condition and high blood pressure that makes you more susceptible than you think you are.
    There are already several cases of the virus here so you won’t be getting away from it anyway.
    Our grocery store shelves in town have been stripped bare, new stock disappears as soon as it’s put out. Seniors can’t get what they need, and the community cannot cope with people coming here to shop for supplies. Please consider staying home, not adding to our burden. Isolate in your own primary residence. It is the responsible, moral and ethical thing to do.”
    It is a matter of life and death. Go home.
    \
    Then it turned ugly /The Albertan’s bring in jobs is the worst argument ever. Maybe there are a few more jobs, but the locals who are now homeless because those same Albertan’s bought up all the property and hiked up rent can’t afford to work those jobs that usually pay crap wages anyway and afford rent, let alone buy any houses in their home town. We need to close the border to stop the influx of Alberta refugees before it’s too late and they take all our hospital beds and food./


    Now the thing about food is BS as the shelves being empty is false , just like every where else locals stocked up on TP and flour. The medical situation is somewhat true is limited but really crisis is maybe 2% bump though its hard to tell as a lot of locals have alberta plates.
    Mrs. Dougw- "I can see how one of your relatives could have been killed by an angry mob."

    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    dougW, you motherfucking dirty son of a bitch.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cravenmorhead View Post
    Some people are very much saying you can't do anything beyond walk around the block or take a bike ride without being socially irresponsible. Some are interpreting #staythefuckhome as exactly that. And there's a large and nuanced spectrum between those people and the ones having big group picnics in the park.
    Yeah but those people are idiots though. And idiots will always yell at you on the internet. It's best not to listen to those idiots. Just the ones here.

  7. #57
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    Were on the verge of trails opening up in our small mountain town, and (as the local trails manager) Im brainstorming guidelines to help trail users to self-regulate. The goal is pretty simple, to maintain opportunities for responsible (with appropriate social distancing and not stressing our health care system) recreation. In particular we want to avoid all of us showing up at the same trailhead on the same sunny afternoon (as often happens in the Spring with trails opening up). Scenes like this could easily provoke public health authorities to close access to trails, and then we all lose. As a remote and inaccessible community were fortunate in not having the added complexity of second home owners and urban masses to contend with, but staying and recreating in your own community does seem sensible in all contexts. I appreciate that urban dwellers will resent being limited, but cities are the incubators of this disease, and it makes no sense to spread it in ways that are difficult to trace and to communities that dont have the capacity to deal with it. Well be promoting a version of these guidelines being applied in Squamish. Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    In 61 years of life, much of it spent recreating out doors, hiking, climbing, ski touring, etc. I have never needed SAR or urgent medical attention due to said activity. But, with medical services potentially in a state of crisis is it wise and/or ethical to pursue such activities.

    One of the local guide services sent out an email saying they were suspending service to all non-locals to avoid bringing COVID-19 into the county. Shortly after they suspend all services. I thought it a bit odd that they would guide locals only. The tourist board from Mammoth just issued a statement basically saying all non residents to stay away (they never had a problem taking tourist dollars before.)

    I am not sure what the answer here is. I don't want to over burden local services, but I also don't want to be treated like I am nothing more then a profit center. Two different issues here, I suppose.
    travelers bring germs Covid somehow got to Italy from Wuhan on a plane and now they are severly fucked up over there in Yurp

    so we have had 2 postive cases in BC from heliski clients who were obviously guided , probably euro skiers could have caught it in a plane or someone in an airport, a guide service shouldn't guide anybody they should shut down period but they need the $$$$$$ and the heli ski ops with the + covid tests have shut down btw

    there was a big dental confrence in Vangroovy, every dentist in BC/ Alberta and one has died

    yeah you don't wana have an accident but the big thing is to recreate alone or stay 10 ft away from people, my buddy came over last week, I sat on my front porch and he sat in the garden 10 ft away on a block, we talked but its still cold up here so he only stayed 15min

    I just got asked to drive the grocery truck, so on one hand buddy (good guy) wants his stuff delivered but in the next sentance when I tell him I am distancing he sez good its a good idea ...mixed messsages here

    what it boils down to is yer fucking idiot pres should be sending a different message, he should be telling people to self distance

    Trudeau our fucking idiot PM has told everybody to go home or else, the situ is pretty close to him cuz his wife Sophie Gregoire is covid+ she got it at a conference or something, so our PM & family is quarrnateened running the country from his res, if people dont self distance he just may invoke the emergencies act ironicaly the last guy to do that was Pierre Trudeau (just watch me ) his dad
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  9. #59
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    I didn't read this whole thread, but I have an anecdote to share. My brother in-law broke his pelvis mountain biking on Saturday. He had surgery yesterday. This was in the SF Bay Area at Stanford and ironically the orthopedic department was not busy at all and there was plenty of capacity for him. All elective surgeries were canceled / delayed so those people don't have much to do. This is the specialty that most skiing injuries will see. The impact is on the ER before the patient gets admitted, but there weren't that many people there. Of course the Bay Area has been on lockdown for a week now and new cases are leveling off.

    I'm not going to try to defend him so go ahead and post your angry comments, but as always there is internet perception and there is reality. Of course there will be regional differences in healthcare capacity especially since parts of the country are and have been sheltering in place for some time, and others are not.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    travelers bring germs Covid somehow got to Italy from Wuhan on a plane and now they are severly fucked up over there in Yurp

    so we have had 2 postive cases in BC from heliski clients who were obviously guided , probably euro skiers could have caught it in a plane or someone in an airport, a guide service shouldn't guide anybody they should shut down period but they need the $$$$$$ and the heli ski ops with the + covid tests have shut down btw

    there was a big dental confrence in Vangroovy, every dentist in BC/ Alberta and one has died

    yeah you don't wana have an accident but the big thing is to recreate alone or stay 10 ft away from people, my buddy came over last week, I sat on my front porch and he sat in the garden 10 ft away on a block, we talked but its still cold up here so he only stayed 15min

    I just got asked to drive the grocery truck, so on one hand buddy (good guy) wants his stuff delivered but in the next sentance when I tell him I am distancing he sez good its a good idea ...mixed messsages here

    what it boils down to is yer fucking idiot pres should be sending a different message, he should be telling people to self distance

    Trudeau our fucking idiot PM has told everybody to go home or else, the situ is pretty close to him cuz his wife Sophie Gregoire is covid+ she got it at a conference or something, so our PM & family is quarrnateened running the country from his res, if people dont self distance he just may invoke the emergencies act ironicaly the last guy to do that was Pierre Trudeau (just watch me ) his dad
    Our prez runs the country from his residence(s) too. Using the word "run" in a loose sense. His wife is self quarantining as well, from him.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootenayskier View Post
    We’re on the verge of trails opening up in our small mountain town, and (as the local trails manager) I’m brainstorming guidelines to help trail users to self-regulate. The goal is pretty simple, to maintain opportunities for responsible (with appropriate social distancing and not stressing our health care system) recreation. In particular we want to avoid all of us showing up at the same trailhead on the same sunny afternoon (as often happens in the Spring with trails opening up). Scenes like this could easily provoke public health authorities to close access to trails, and then we all lose. As a remote and inaccessible community we’re fortunate in not having the added complexity of second home owners and urban masses to contend with, but staying and recreating in your own community does seem sensible in all contexts. I appreciate that urban dwellers will resent being limited, but cities are the incubators of this disease, and it makes no sense to spread it in ways that are difficult to trace and to communities that don’t have the capacity to deal with it. We’ll be promoting a version of these guidelines being applied in Squamish. Click image for larger version. 

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    I would add to Do Not Congregate at Trail Intersections. That has been my biggest issue here. Folks not knowing if they want to go left or right and just all hang out where you need to bike right between them to get through. I've just been coughing dramatically as I approach, and that seems to remind people to move back

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    How many mountain locals have driven down to Denver or Grand Junction or Durango in the last week and gotten supplies? Gassed up, hit the grocery, liquor, and costco?

    You’re the ones living in locations with far too few hospital beds and sponging off the capacity in. Ig towns. Spreading your virus around coming into town shopping but boy youll piss and moan if city folks hit the trailheads. But THEY should stay away. Not you rural freeloaders, but THEM

    How about you diseased mountain fucks stay quarantined? And YOU fucks stay away from the trailheads.

    Endangering the rest of us, selfish.
    Good to see that humanity is acting rationally during this period of uncertainty.

    Are you really going to compare your need to recreate in the mountains to people's need for basics like food and fuel? Or is my sarcasm meter broken (hoping its the latter).

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by skysos View Post
    I didn't read this whole thread, but I have an anecdote to share. My brother in-law broke his pelvis mountain biking on Saturday. He had surgery yesterday. This was in the SF Bay Area at Stanford and ironically the orthopedic department was not busy at all and there was plenty of capacity for him. All elective surgeries were canceled / delayed so those people don't have much to do. This is the specialty that most skiing injuries will see. The impact is on the ER before the patient gets admitted, but there weren't that many people there. Of course the Bay Area has been on lockdown for a week now and new cases are leveling off.

    I'm not going to try to defend him so go ahead and post your angry comments, but as always there is internet perception and there is reality. Of course there will be regional differences in healthcare capacity especially since parts of the country are and have been sheltering in place for some time, and others are not.
    its an accident he could have fallen doing some mundane task
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by skysos View Post
    I didn't read this whole thread, but I have an anecdote to share. My brother in-law broke his pelvis mountain biking on Saturday. He had surgery yesterday. This was in the SF Bay Area at Stanford and ironically the orthopedic department was not busy at all and there was plenty of capacity for him. All elective surgeries were canceled / delayed so those people don't have much to do. This is the specialty that most skiing injuries will see. The impact is on the ER before the patient gets admitted, but there weren't that many people there. Of course the Bay Area has been on lockdown for a week now and new cases are leveling off.

    I'm not going to try to defend him so go ahead and post your angry comments, but as always there is internet perception and there is reality. Of course there will be regional differences in healthcare capacity especially since parts of the country are and have been sheltering in place for some time, and others are not.
    Oh man, sorry to hear that for your bro inlaw. That sucks. I'm still riding my bike, granted at a more cautious pace, but shit can happen no matter what and sometimes the lack of aggressiveness can lead to an accident. There is a fine line between overly confident or not assertive enough. And then in almost every accident I've had on a bike it has been a mechanical failure...which in some cases can also be traced back to lack of proper maintenance. A lot of factors. We all need outlets for our mental health and I will continue to ride through this pandemic.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by skysos View Post
    I didn't read this whole thread, but I have an anecdote to share. My brother in-law broke his pelvis mountain biking on Saturday. He had surgery yesterday. This was in the SF Bay Area at Stanford and ironically the orthopedic department was not busy at all and there was plenty of capacity for him. All elective surgeries were canceled / delayed so those people don't have much to do. This is the specialty that most skiing injuries will see. The impact is on the ER before the patient gets admitted, but there weren't that many people there. Of course the Bay Area has been on lockdown for a week now and new cases are leveling off.

    I'm not going to try to defend him so go ahead and post your angry comments, but as always there is internet perception and there is reality. Of course there will be regional differences in healthcare capacity especially since parts of the country are and have been sheltering in place for some time, and others are not.

    Things are not leveling off in the Bay Area. SF saw its two biggest days of new cases Sunday and Monday. It will take another week for a level off, if we are actually reducing community transmissions. That said, hospitals are not yet over run in the Bay Area. Smaller facilities in Santa Cruz and Monterey counties are seeing bigger relative impacts. I know for sure that two of our facilities have no n95 masks, and that is the issue for health care professionals.

    What if you BIL were asymtomatic COVID positive? (I assume he is not, and that he got tested before admittance) In SC County, he could have infected first responders and health care professionals because, quite simply, we don't have PPE. Until PPE and tests are widely available, this shit is going to keep spreading, and the last place we want it spreading are to the people who provide us care.

    So, while this may be a great time for emergency hip surgery, it really is not. When the shit hits the fan in a few weeks across the country, like it is in NYC, it will be the worst time to have emergency surgery. Glad your BIL is okay.

    I'm done trying to get people to change here. Way too many selfish folks are going to keep doing what they are going to keep doing, despite the crisis hitting the world right now. I've now begun to focus on friends and family around the country who are not taking this seriously. I'll have better luck with them. I hope things change soon and America awakens..

    LongShortLong - great post and paper. Thank you. It is crazy the panic going on about the economy and obliviousness to the real dangers we are facing.

  16. #66
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    ^SC has been shut down longer than most. Seems like the curve should be flattening there ahead of the rest of the country.

    edit - Masks arriving - https://patch.com/california/santacr...e-27-000-masks

  17. #67
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    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...aaRXiRDvSxmA9g

    it was actualy 3 heli ops and they were all American skiers but anyone who can afford a heli trip is probably well off, highly mobile & does a lot of traveling would be the key

    the 3rd skier flew in private and stayed private, got the Covid somewhere
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    How many mountain locals have driven down to Denver or Grand Junction or Durango in the last week and gotten supplies? Gassed up, hit the grocery, liquor, and costco?

    Youre the ones living in locations with far too few hospital beds and sponging off the capacity in. Ig towns. Spreading your virus around coming into town shopping but boy youll piss and moan if city folks hit the trailheads. But THEY should stay away. Not you rural freeloaders, but THEM

    How about you diseased mountain fucks stay quarantined? And YOU fucks stay away from the trailheads.

    Endangering the rest of us, selfish.
    One action is of necessity, the other, not so much.

    So many opera singers tuning up.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by skysos View Post
    I didn't read this whole thread, but I have an anecdote to share. My brother in-law broke his pelvis mountain biking on Saturday. He had surgery yesterday. This was in the SF Bay Area at Stanford and ironically the orthopedic department was not busy at all and there was plenty of capacity for him. All elective surgeries were canceled / delayed so those people don't have much to do. This is the specialty that most skiing injuries will see. The impact is on the ER before the patient gets admitted, but there weren't that many people there. Of course the Bay Area has been on lockdown for a week now and new cases are leveling off.

    I'm not going to try to defend him so go ahead and post your angry comments, but as always there is internet perception and there is reality. Of course there will be regional differences in healthcare capacity especially since parts of the country are and have been sheltering in place for some time, and others are not.
    the issue is not the hospital being too busy, although skiing and bike trauma does have the potential to tie up a bed for a long time (I was in the hospital last year for 10 days with a broken back, ribs and pelvis) but the supplies that are used--masks, disinfectants, gloves, etc etc.

  21. #71
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    Avalanche Canada trying to get the point across "Stay Home"

    https://www.avalanche.ca/news/avalan...asting-for-the

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...aaRXiRDvSxmA9g

    it was actualy 3 heli ops and they were all American skiers but anyone who can afford a heli trip is probably well off, highly mobile & does a lot of traveling would be the key

    the 3rd skier flew in private and stayed private, got the Covid somewhere
    I also heard Selkirk Tangirs , one of the CMH and Chatter Creek
    Mrs. Dougw- "I can see how one of your relatives could have been killed by an angry mob."

    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    dougW, you motherfucking dirty son of a bitch.

  23. #73
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  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    the issue is not the hospital being too busy, although skiing and bike trauma does have the potential to tie up a bed for a long time (I was in the hospital last year for 10 days with a broken back, ribs and pelvis) but the supplies that are used--masks, disinfectants, gloves, etc etc.
    One important consideration is that if a trauma patient needs surgery, then a lot of those patients would need anesthesia for the OR, which would then require mechanical ventilation for surgery.

    These devices also require high-level sterilization after use. After surgery, that's not too big of a deal, but I'm not sure if extra sterilization would be needed after use for a COVID-19 patient. Just something to keep in mind.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garfield3d View Post
    One important consideration is that if a trauma patient needs surgery, then a lot of those patients would need anesthesia for the OR, which would then require mechanical ventilation for surgery.

    These devices also require high-level sterilization after use. After surgery, that's not too big of a deal, but I'm not sure if extra sterilization would be needed after use for a COVID-19 patient. Just something to keep in mind.
    Every OR I've rotated through the CRNA's are using very different/specific vents than would be used in the ICU/ED etc. YMMV.

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