The Ethics of Outdorr Recreation in Times of COVID-19

[Vt-Freeheel]

The black and white thinking of the virtue signaler/ social shamer.

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[altacoup]

I usually believe in a more nuanced perspective but these are different times. Look around. If you want to get back to normal ASAP everyone needs to stay at home. We haven’t even hit the tip of the iceberg with this thing. Was talking with a friend of mine who is lives outside of Venice Italy and three friends in Seville Spain. Trust me you don’t want to be living like they are. And the more we continue to go around as if this isn’t our problem the worse it will be and the longer it will take to get back to normal. This is actually a pretty black and white situation. Either you’re for the greater good or you’re a selfish fucktard. Simple and straight forward as that

[simple]

It's a big country you don't need to be in a cabin in Alaska to isolate and be away from people.

Shit we used to get Amazon packages outside Prudhoe Bay when I worked up there. I was surrounded by water and we had polar bears around. I still went outside to recreate. Stay home my ass. Stay in the city is more like it. Cities are filthy places.

[Garfield3d]

What statistics are you waiting for? As I've said half a dozen times it takes a lot of PPE to treat a broken leg. There was an ER doc on the TV last night who had to work with no PPE. None. How many of those do you want to see before you're satisfied. Are you waiting for the first ski injury that lies for 2 days in the ER hall because there's no place to put them. The orthopedist that can't help take care of covid patients because she's taking care of you. The first SAR person that test positive and infects 5 others? None of that stuff, except the ER doc has happend yet, It will. Everyone is on Trump for not reacting until shit got bad. Aren't you doing the same thing--waiting for shit to get bad. The only way to get ahead of this thing is to think ahead of it. So think.

Our hospital said that we were averaging about 100,000 used masks per day for the month of March. Not sure if that number was for our hospital alone (~800 beds) or if they were including all of our clinics + other hospitals in our system. In either case, that number was much larger than I expected, especially since we're in Texas as opposed to one of the crisis areas.

For comparison, they said we averaged about 25,000 masks per day in January, and 15,000 masks per day in November. 6-fold increase in usage, and that's despite all of the mask rationing and conservation that we usually don't do.

[chaka]

I feel a bit guilty because it's taken me a little while. I started out more gray on this, getting in last chairs at the local hill before they shut, convincing myself that it was OK even though my gut was saying this doesn't feel 100% right. Because I selfishly wanted to get another day in.

3 weeks ago I shifted to a more black and white approach following guidance and common sense. Not preaching, just sharing the evolution. Go for a short run from my house? sure, as long as I can stay away from others. Mellow road ride from the house focused on climbing neighborhood hills for fitness? for now, yes... a lot safer with the almost non-existent traffic, and currently deemed ok by our governor's guidance. Tame xc mountain bike from my house? No, because the trails are crowded, hard to practice social distancing on single track and increased chance of a dumb accident and resulting injury. Backcountry ski? nope, I have to drive 40 minutes, and again the chance of a dumb accident. I dunno about others here, but I have never ended up the ER from getting gnar, but I have been there two times in the last 3 years from stupid unexpected shit... torn thumb ligaments from reading a stupid wet root wrong, bruised kidney/cracked rib from losing traction CLIMBING and toppling down a ravine impacting a rock. It's bigger than us now. I've read enough terrifying first person accounts of our fearless healthcare workers on the front line to last me a lifetime. This shit is real. Do the right thing. Someone said what would you do if you were injured? You'd sack the fuck up and just chill out because you knew it was in YOUR best interest to do so. For all of us... YOUR needs to become OUR now.

[altacoup]

It's a big country you don't need to be in a cabin in Alaska to isolate and be away from people.

Shit we used to get Amazon packages outside Prudhoe Bay when I worked up there. I was surrounded by water and we had polar bears around. I still went outside to recreate. Stay home my ass. Stay in the city is more like it. Cities are filthy places.

Apples to oranges. A polar bear is only dangerous to those in close proximity. This virus is dangerous to all. If one wants to gamble with a bear that will generally only affect them. This is a whole different situation. In the current situation, everything you do well have an effect on everyone else. Open your eyes. Be selflessness!

[simple]

Keep your chin up. I'm sure it will be fine. We are pretty self sufficient out here in the woods.

Say goodbye to hand shaking at meetings, elevators, mass transit without masks, and Costco on the weekends.

[old goat]

Keep your chin up. I'm sure it will be fine. We are pretty self sufficient out here in the woods.

Say goodbye to hand shaking at meetings, elevators, mass transit without masks, and Costco on the weekends.

Can we stop sending you food and toilet paper? Running low down here.

[simple]

Can we stop sending you food and toilet paper? Running low down here.

Sure thing. All stocked up and the farmer's markets open soon enough.

We depend too much on a government that failed us over and over. We vote for people that trim budgets and don't listen to true experts.

I'm sure TP is low because of the panic hoarding. We recycle toilet paper here. Just dry in out on the clothes line.

[Shorty_J]

and what do you suppose the rate of breaking a leg is per person per hour for bc skiing vs other activities? it's not like we're all breaking legs out there every time we get out. people fall getting into the bathtub too, should we not shower? should the overweight be forced to do some cardio in their homes to reduce the chances of heart attack? I'd wager banning the sale of alcohol would substantially reduce the (rapidly increasing) number of domestic violence calls, but I don't see people calling for that. but the handful of folks who want to do one of the few things remaining to them outside of their homes are suddenly the problem, because they could get hurt? I get it, it's selfish. but lots more things are selfish than just this.

and the same cadre of folks loudly calling for the banning of all outdoor activity also seem to be the folks calling for an indefinite total lockdown. you wanna get people to agree to stop living their lives for n weeks, you might get some buy in. but just "give up and eventually it'll get better maybe, in the meantime just stay inside though - in 18 months there might even be a vaccine that might work for one of these strands!" is a tough sell. and we haven't even hit the first monthly bill cycle where folks can't make rent, mortgage, electric, etc yet...

eta: I'd bet you making 1 extra trip/week to the supermarket spreads this disease statistically way more per person than (solo/conservative) bc skiing.

I agree with most of this... but I honestly think a total lockdown might not be a bad thing. Indefinite is not feasible in the long term but doing it for a defined period of time to let us "catch up" a little could work.

The thing that bothers me is, like you said, the risk of pursuing outdoor activities is much less than going to the grocery store (necessary) or packing the public transit with people going to non-essential employment.

If we don't need a total lockdown then me getting outside and stopping at 1 gas station that I wipe down with a sanitizing wipe should be fine.

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[Kinnikinnick]

And the more we continue to go around as if this isn’t our problem the worse it will be and the longer it will take to get back to normal. This is actually a pretty black and white situation. Either you’re for the greater good or you’re a selfish fucktard. Simple and straight forward as that

Come on. You think that people can fall into only two categories?

A) BAD SELFISH PEOPLE - People going around “as if this isnt our problem”

B) GOOD PEOPLE - people for the greater good


Seriously - if thats what you think them you are a simpleton who is too stupid to have an opinion that anyone should listen to.


Here’s me:

- Physically isolated the family from direct contact with anyone else for the past 2 1/2 weeks. Only grocery stores as needed

- cancelled all our spring break plans. Even before the stay at home orders, I pulled the plug and vetoed the family’s asks to do a VRBO or camp or something.

- volunteering to source medical supplies.

- went on a mellow solo ski tour to purge the body and mind. Had to drive 50 mins.


So which of your tidy, simple, pigeon holes do you put me in?

Guess I’m in the BAD PEOPLE category since it was skiing and had to drive.


FIN

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[Bunion 2020]

I dunno you seemed pretty normal to me, but certainly in the hypersensitive category with posts on this subject.

People are on edge right now, some more than others. We need to cut each other a bit of slack when possible.

[doebedoe]

I dunno you seemed pretty normal to me, but certainly in the hypersensitive category with posts on this subject.

People are on edge right now, some more than others. We need to cut each other a bit of slack when possible.

Stop being fucking reasonable. The internet exists to flame people.

[skifishbum]

I usually believe in a more nuanced perspective but these are different times. Look around. If you want to get back to normal ASAP everyone needs to stay at home. We haven’t even hit the tip of the iceberg with this thing. Was talking with a friend of mine who is lives outside of Venice Italy and three friends in Seville Spain. Trust me you don’t want to be living like they are. And the more we continue to go around as if this isn’t our problem the worse it will be and the longer it will take to get back to normal. This is actually a pretty black and white situation. Either you’re for the greater good or you’re a selfish fucktard. Simple and straight forward as that

last week you were telling us of

That’s for sure. Last two days snow conditions have been phenomenal.

Definitely good turns to de had. Managed to kick off some decent sized (20-30’ wide) slabs of graupel that was pooling below cliffs in the castle...….

now youre first chair virtue singer of the shelter in place choir lookin for an emmy
can you share your shit got real lightbulb moment?
was it a vision?

[simple]

Stop being fucking reasonable. The internet exists to flame people.

Forums are for flaming. Facebook and Twitter are for inducing panic and overloading people with hive mind mentality.

[tgapp]

I dunno you seemed pretty normal to me, but certainly in the hypersensitive category with posts on this subject.

People are on edge right now, some more than others. We need to cut each other a bit of slack when possible.

^^^ this - we need MORE empathy, more compassion, more understanding.

[swissiphic]

Still trynna figure out the optimum design for the sit ski option for safe descents down sled packed logging roads.

In the meantime, I kinda thought plain old Dairylandring in non technical terrain was the best option for high quality cardio workouts while there's still snow in the bush. The zone is a short drive from house. I figure for the designated high intensity days, I'll drag a small log behind me attached via ski drag attachment method to backpack. Lots of forest debris around to sift through to find the 'just right' deadfall small log.

The d.l.rz are definitely special conditions tools though. Found that their optimal operating conditions are well settled wet grains where if a guy was simply hiking/bootpacking he'd experience inconsistent support under foot. You know, the kinda snow where yer marching along with great traction/support for a few steps, sinking in minimally and then have that frustrating post hole up to the knees, thighs, crotch, waist or man boobs. No postholio with the dldrz unless you really misread the snow.

Traipsing through the fairyland forest on the Dairylandr o.g.'s and 2.0's. with my first official convert to the milk krate kult. Initial skepticism and resistance was futile...it took about 87 steps before the comments swung from 'this is ridiculous' to 'this is awesome!'




Had some issues with feet popping backwards out of the attachment straps at random intervals, so, sifted through the pile of junk parts and found a good solution. Voila, no Voiles! Black Diamond ski pole handle straps repurposed as heel straps for the dldrz.

[Vt-Freeheel]

Quote Originally Posted by altacoup View Post
I usually believe in a more nuanced perspective but these are different times. Look around. If you want to get back to normal ASAP everyone needs to stay at home. We haven’t even hit the tip of the iceberg with this thing. Was talking with a friend of mine who is lives outside of Venice Italy and three friends in Seville Spain. Trust me you don’t want to be living like they are. And the more we continue to go around as if this isn’t our problem the worse it will be and the longer it will take to get back to normal. This is actually a pretty black and white situation. Either you’re for the greater good or you’re a selfish fucktard. Simple and straight forward as that

last week you were telling us of

Quote Originally Posted by altacoup View Post
That’s for sure. Last two days snow conditions have been phenomenal.
Quote Originally Posted by altacoup View Post
Definitely good turns to de had. Managed to kick off some decent sized (20-30’ wide) slabs of graupel that was pooling below cliffs in the castle...….


now youre first chair virtue singer of the shelter in place choir lookin for an emmy
can you share your shit got real lightbulb moment?
was it a vision?

POTD lol

[Lone Star]

I'm looking for the waiver/medical directive that says I refuse any attempt to rescue me in the BC.

Mr Calamari is drafting one up right now. Should be good to go soon.

[m2711c]

[Kinnikinnick]

I dunno you seemed pretty normal to me, but certainly in the hypersensitive category with posts on this subject.

People are on edge right now, some more than others. We need to cut each other a bit of slack when possible.

Well then you misjudged!!

I’m done screeching from my pulpit about this.

Just a way to vent in troubled waters.




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[iriponsnow]

My wife is on Medical Staff at local hospital & has just shifted to providing ED care- so listen to altacoup & Vt-Freeheel.


& trust me, with her specialty - you dont want her to set your leg.

[m2711c]

Still trynna figure out the optimum design for the sit ski option for safe descents down sled packed logging roads.

Here's how it's done in Vermont....

https://vtskiandride.com/now-somethi...ely-different/

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/03/59024...omegrown-sport



Top o' the line Jack Jumper...






them there euros call it skibock and this is how they do it...

[swissiphic]

Here's how it's done in Vermont....

Sweet, great ideas.

For the sled packed logging road though, i'm trynna get away from any boot/snow contact for steering/braking. Gotta dial in an orientation of feet up on top sheets with a hand controlled braking system.

Prefer to to have two skis for bull low gear, super slow speed static balance during the descents.

Latest idea is use a milk crate as the seat and attach alu fins on the lateral aspects that are long enough to penetrate the snow for the length of milk crate in the skis' midsection area. This should provide a bit better on snow tracking and directional stability.

[goldenboy]

The only person I saw at the trailhead yesterday (outside my group) is a doctor at the hospital. His response- "Getting out here today was the only thing that kept me going all week." Of the 2 people I skied with yesterday, one was SAR. Of the handful of people I saw the day before that, 2 were SAR, one was Fire Department. When I skied up the mountain last week (and no, I don't care that Fail says it's closed), the majority of the people I saw were patrol, skinning up the mountain. Their response, "we're laid off anyway." So no, I don't feel remotely bad that I'm skiing almost every day.

That said, my attitude would be different if all of that wasn't in my backyard.