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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn View Post
    Bluetooth is a lot better than it used to be. For casual listening it’s great.


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    True, but there is still pretty significant compression, I believe.
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  2. #27
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    Not when aptX is compared to CD's...
    https://www.soundguys.com/the-ultima...aptx-hd-19914/
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  3. #28
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    What I should do, is compare the sound quality of the nakamichi oms7 CD player through the hafler analog pre amp, and the Sony ES cdplayer, (junk plastic changer that showed up broken in the mail, but I fixed it) sending optical signal to the Sony ES pre amp, and pipe them both through the jbl amps and big b and o speakers. Then I will actually get to compare the quality of the sound between two totally different philosophy systems.
    The nakamichi oms7 was a top of the line CD player known to have a very good sounding dac. The hafler analog pre amp is also well regarded, and sounds fabulous in the living room main system.
    I mean, I'm stuck at home, so why not?
    Here is the stack with the hafler analog pre amp, hafler amp, and nakamichi CD player.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    sent from Utah.
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  4. #29
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    Here are pics of the repair on the junky es CD player. Screen was not working, nor were most of the buttons across the top, including the power button. Fully functional now.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    sent from Utah.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    Not when aptX is compared to CD's...
    https://www.soundguys.com/the-ultima...aptx-hd-19914/
    Where is all the source material coming from? LP’s?
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Where is all the source material coming from? LP’s?
    "The usual sources" led me to HDTracks, where I happily set up an account so living musicians can get some royalties off my ass, and I can get high-bitrate files recorded direct from master by accomplished engineers with great gear.

    I also have a couple DACs that have native DSD. SACD bitstream [DSD] is so so superior to CD [16bit PCM] that it's a different league altogether, but it's an end-to-end tech completely different from PCM, and a PITA to get right unless you bring $$ to the quest, or just happen to have "one of those" old Playstations [before Sony locked Playstations down they let a savvy tecno separate the DSD from PCM files on a dual layer SACD]. There's an otf conversion protocol called DOP that does a great job though, but it's still a conversion.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    BT and DAC....BWAHAHAHAHAHA...
    Am I wrong, or you just laughing at the shit quality?
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  8. #33
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    Yes? Among other reasons.
    I’ll let someone more conversant in the minutiae explain...
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  9. #34
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    Obviously there is some kind of dac in a bt adapter if they plug right in to the aux jack, no?
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  10. #35
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    Still gotta lower the tv, but the audio bit is set for a bit. Little bit less of a fiat look.Click image for larger version. 

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    sent from Utah.
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by basinbeater View Post
    Still gotta lower the tv, but the audio bit is set for a bit. Little bit less of a fiat look.Click image for larger version. 

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    sent from Utah.
    Rug really ties it all together.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    Rug really ties it all together.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app
    Which one the living room oriental rug or the gray dining room rug?

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Obviously there is some kind of dac in a bt adapter if they plug right in to the aux jack, no?
    In that instance the DAC is in the phone. Anything out from the phone is analog, already processed by the phone.
    BT protocol was devised as a hard cable replacement, so it could conceivably send bit-perfect digital audio to a DAC. But that would be a can of worms, with lots of overhead spent checksumming, etc.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by RShea View Post
    Which one the living room oriental rug or the gray dining room rug?
    That Ray rug is ugly as sin, but the kids are still regularly dumping food on it, so we'll let it ride a couple more years.

    Seems like most of the phones can send a digital signal that bypasses the dac out, there are a number of external dacs you can plug into your phone.

    Like this one...
    https://www.audioquest.com/dacs/dragonfly/dragonfly-red

    But I just want the bypass part, and a cable either coax or optic I can send to the pre amp.

    sent from Utah.
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  15. #40
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    This might do the trick.
    https://hifigo.com/products/cayin-cs...QaAp8yEALw_wcB


    sent from Utah.
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  16. #41
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    $88?
    Who do they think they are, Monster Cable?
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  17. #42
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    Why do you want to use your phone as a digital source? Is it because you have a large digital audio collection saved on your phone or because you want to use digital streaming services like Spotify?

  18. #43
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    Both. And with a good cable, I can set a tablet on there and use that. With this pre, I lose a bit converting from digital to analog at the phone, then back to digital in the pre, and back to analog. If I can just feed a clean digital to the pre, I should be good.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't think this pre is the end all be all, but I do like it. I bet if I test it a vs b with the hafler, sort of a digital vs analog shootout, the hafler will win. But the tv puts out a digital signal, and this pre is a fun toy. The imaging is fantastic, the speakers just sort of disappear, even my 7 year old commented about how you can't tell that the sound is actually coming out of the speakers, but it is. You can pick out instrument locations across the stage with your eyes closed, and the parametric eq is really cool.

    sent from Utah.
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  19. #44
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    Soundstage/imaging is what I get out of high end audio the most (or at least used to).
    Now most of my critical listening now is either In my truck, or while biking. Too much noise to signal for subtleties, sadly.
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by highangle View Post
    In that instance the DAC is in the phone. Anything out from the phone is analog, already processed by the phone.
    BT protocol was devised as a hard cable replacement, so it could conceivably send bit-perfect digital audio to a DAC. But that would be a can of worms, with lots of overhead spent checksumming, etc.
    I don't understand. That doesn't seem right. It's a digital signal, right? If it's a dongle that plugs into an aux jack it has to then put out analog, right?
    What am I missing?
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    I don't understand. That doesn't seem right. It's a digital signal, right? If it's a dongle that plugs into an aux jack it has to then put out analog, right?
    What am I missing?
    The phone converts from a digital file to analog, then it outs to BT, like it was headphones. BT is FM radio, which has an analog carrier, but BT converts to [lossy] SBC or [better] AptX codec to mod/demod the signal.
    So yeah, you're right about BT using a digi signal, but chances are it's converted from an analog source from the phone's DAC. Double conversion whammy.

    When audio freaks talk about "Bit-perfect", they are talking about an exact replica of the lossless flac or wav or dff file being streamed into a DAC that can strip the containers and process the 1s and 0s without adding or losing anything that the artists and engineers recorded - "Fidelity".
    It's harder than it sounds, as most players add all sorts of shit to what goes into the DAC - dithering, equalization, room effects like delay, compression, volume, etc

  22. #47
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    So I am learning. USB digital out is not suitable to go straight to a digital input plug. USB digital out sends packets of data that are different from the pulses in a s/pdif signal. So. To go from USB digital signal, to optical or coaxial spdif, you need a USB to spdif bridge decoder. Then you will have a digital signal that can be read by your dac.

    Apparently clocking of the signals is a huge issue. When the clocks synchronizing the signals go "off" you get signal jitter that the dac has trouble decoding as a 1 or 0.

    sent from Utah.
    Last edited by basinbeater; 03-22-2020 at 09:42 AM.
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  23. #48
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    Here is a device that would do the trick..... For $1200....
    https://www.mutec-net.com/product_mc-3-plus-usb.php

    sent from Utah.
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  24. #49
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    And something like this from China for a lot less than $1200.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/254270854835

    sent from Utah.
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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by basinbeater View Post
    So I am learning. USB digital out is not suitable to go straight to a digital input plug. USB digital out sends packets of data that are different from the pulses in a s/pdif signal. So. To go from USB digital signal, to optical or coaxial spdif, you need a USB to spdif bridge decoder. Then you will have a digital signal that can be read by your dac.

    Apparently clocking of the signals is a huge issue. When the clocks synchronizing the signals go "off" you get signal jitter that the dac has trouble decoding as a 1 or 0.

    sent from Utah.
    I hope you figured it out before buying the $88 cables! Great explanation to Stucky, BTW.
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