Three Piece Boots

[PeachesNCream]

I have a pretty universal narrow foot with a kinda high instep. Greg at Evo said he could make most narrow boots work. I want to try a 3 piece boot but all they had was full tilts. The full tilt fit well but Greg recommended the Dalbello Krypton. I'm heavy and want a high performing boot so the stiffer the better. Any recommendations for a stiff, narrow, three piece boot?

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[rob stokes]

You don’t have many choices, Dalbello,Full tilt and Roxa I think. As far as stiffness goes I’d think the krypton would be the stiffest-but I have no experience with Roxa.


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[mntlion]

dalbello makes a 98 or 99 version, and the stiff tongue is 120-130

FYI: a 3 prt boot will feel soft at the top of the flex, but hard to bottom out. So dont panic if the flex feels too soft

[ill-advised strategy]

I have a pretty universal narrow foot with a kinda high instep. Greg at Evo said he could make most narrow boots work. I want to try a 3 piece boot but all they had was full tilts. The full tilt fit well but Greg recommended the Dalbello Krypton. I'm heavy and want a high performing boot so the stiffer the better. Any recommendations for a stiff, narrow, three piece boot?

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Get a fulltilt first chair and put a #12 tongue on it.
Good to go.

[Eluder]

Just curious why you want to try a 3 piece boot? Kryptons are strangely big in the mid foot laterally, that works for some and doesn't for others.

[RShea]

Why a 3 piece boot? The Krypton 2 series is not all that narrow and as stiff as compared to some of the race plug boots. What do you consider stiff - 150 or something lower like a 130 or 120? 93 last boots would be some of the narrowest on the market. 98 or 99 are many times the next step up in width. Most of the Krypton series are around 100 last.

I tried a Dalbello Scorpion 93 last after someone (wrongly) telling me my old Tecnica (one of the Icon but not the highest end Icon series) boots were 93 last (I came to find out they were 98 last model) I could get my foot into the Scorpions but they would have required a bunch of work to make it so they were comfortable to wear and not crushing my foot at a number of hot spots. I then moved to the Krypton 2 (120 flex) boots and they required a boot fit session and grinding up in the toe area in multiple spots, but were much wider than the Scorpion series 2 piece traditional boots. Both also were narrower in the leg and calf than my old Tecnica.

[PeachesNCream]

Get a fulltilt first chair and put a #12 tongue on it.
Good to go.

Can you explain why the first chair? Is that their narrow version?

Just curious why you want to try a 3 piece boot? Kryptons are strangely big in the mid foot laterally, that works for some and doesn't for others.

I liked the way it flexed. The way it was explained to me was that a two piece/4 buckle boot will progressively get stiffer as you flex into the boot while a three piece will have a much more consistent flex throughout. I obviously won't know til I ski it but on the foot I really liked the flex. I also don't have a race background and more of a new school approach if that changes anything.

The krypton pro id is their narrow last boot. It's 98mm which seems to fit my foot perfect.

Why a 3 piece boot? The Krypton 2 series is not all that narrow and as stiff as compared to some of the race plug boots. What do you consider stiff - 150 or something lower like a 130 or 120? 93 last boots would be some of the narrowest on the market. 98 or 99 are many times the next step up in width. Most of the Krypton series are around 100 last.

I tried a Dalbello Scorpion 93 last after someone (wrongly) telling me my old Tecnica (one of the Icon but not the highest end Icon series) boots were 93 last (I came to find out they were 98 last model) I could get my foot into the Scorpions but they would have required a bunch of work to make it so they were comfortable to wear and not crushing my foot at a number of hot spots. I then moved to the Krypton 2 (120 flex) boots and they required a boot fit session and grinding up in the toe area in multiple spots, but were much wider than the Scorpion series 2 piece traditional boots. Both also were narrower in the leg and calf than my old Tecnica.

I should clarify that my foot is on the narrow side of average, boots in the 98/99 width were fitting pretty well out of the box. As far as flex goes, I was looking at a Salomon s max(?) which Greg said the blue ones flexed at about a 135. I'm looking at a stiff non race boot, so like a 130. The boot fitter said they don't make 3 pieces as stiff as a two piece but I liked the way a three piece flexed so that's how I ended up at "stiffest three piece boot". Boot fitter said a Dalbello Krypton with a stiff tongue would flex around a 125ish compared to the salomons.

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[stuckathuntermtn]

What's weird about 3 piece boots is the different tongue stiffnesses seem to change the fit a little. A really stiff tongue may not wrap your feet and ankles as well. Or it may YMMV.
I wouldn't rule out a Lange 97mm last, Mach1 LV, etc.
3 pieces certainly can be stiff. IDK how I skied the stiffer tongues at first on my Lupos. I must have been miserable. I know I was more tired than usual, but figured it was the skis/me. Swapping the tongues back and forth has definitely opened my eyes. Also kinda makes me wanna go back to a 4 buckle 2 piece boot, but maybe if I can find this mysterious P tongue I'll be happy.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Wait, I might be a little confused on tongues. I think I have B and C. Older 98mm last Lupo SP. Tongues are black (soft) and orange (really stiff). Am I wrong that P is in the middle? I really hope there's something in the middle. The difference in fit and stiffness is huge.

[ill-advised strategy]

Can you explain why the first chair?

It’s the original fulltilt, which is a raichle flexon, which is a decades-long standard of high-performance+narrow fit.
If you want it stiff, the #12 tongue is stiff.

Why the FT? Because you said it fit well. It’s a narrow 3 piece that can easily be made very stiff with a stiff tongue.

[oetk2]

Before the 12 was available the stiffest was the 10 in one size larger than your size. Gave a bit more material to push against.

[RShea]

The 3 piece Dalbellos are 110, 120, and 130 flex. Each comes with the softer tongue and then the slightly stiffer flex tongues. I started out switching to the stiff tongues and then went to the boot fitter. He asked why I had the stiffer tongues on and suggested I move back to the softer. There is also an unavailable really stiff- A softer, B- stiffer ship with the boot, and the elusive C- from what I read and see on here are only available to sponsored or high end athletes and never to the general public at all.

[skisurfmirth]

Like any good boot fitter will tell you, buy what fits your foot best in your prefered style of consturction (2 vs 3 piece) then dial in the stiffness from there. Sounds like the Krypon has fit you well. If not try the Full Tilt.

Here is a link to the dalbello cataglogue for 2020. https://issuu.com/kmsport_pl/docs/19...lo-workbook-en .

It doesn't show what tongue each boot comes with, but if it is a 130 flex it most likely does comes with the B flex. P flex is the next stiffest, common on the 120 models, then C (softer than P) then D (softest offering) . The tongues stiffer than B are the A and M I believe. Prior to the P and M flex offerings the stiffness were A,B,C,D. Again, just try some stuff on, and buy what fits best out of the box. Good luck in your search.

[skisurfmirth]

This stamp is from my Lupo 125 AX. Shows all the stamps for the different stiffness tongues.

[skisurfmirth]

This stamp is from my Lupo carbon TI showing the pre M and P flex offerings.

[gregL]

Sorry, brundo, it didn't dawn on me that it was probably you until you left the store, but you did get to try most of the popular low volume shells on the market (Dalbello Pro excepted). Keep in mind that:

Most good bootfitters, if they are being honest and not feeling lazy, will tell you that "out of the box" fit isn't all that important - they can change most aspects of the fit fairly easily. What can't be fixed are shells that are too long and loose ankle/midfoot fits.

Just because a boot is a 3-piece design doesn't make it ski better for every skier (the same is true of overlap designs).

The boot with the perceived stiffest flex doesn't necessarily ski better.

As mentioned above, Roxa is also a player in the 3-piece market. I'm currently testing the R3 130 Ti, which is pretty damn stiff (nominal and legit 130), pretty damn light (1600 grams per boot in a 26.5 with a slim footbed), skis very well and tours OK. It is not, however, as low volume as the 98mm Dalbello Pro last. I only have one day on them, though, and pretty much all the local lifts shut down today, so . . .

[stuckathuntermtn]

I want pp!

[PeachesNCream]

Sorry, brundo, it didn't dawn on me that it was probably you until you left the store, but you did get to try most of the popular low volume shells on the market (Dalbello Pro excepted). Keep in mind that:

Most good bootfitters, if they are being honest and not feeling lazy, will tell you that "out of the box" fit isn't all that important - they can change most aspects of the fit fairly easily. What can't be fixed are shells that are too long and loose ankle/midfoot fits.

Just because a boot is a 3-piece design doesn't make it ski better for every skier (the same is true of overlap designs).

The boot with the perceived stiffest flex doesn't necessarily ski better.

As mentioned above, Roxa is also a player in the 3-piece market. I'm currently testing the R3 130 Ti, which is pretty damn stiff (nominal and legit 130), pretty damn light (1600 grams per boot in a 26.5 with a slim footbed), skis very well and tours OK. It is not, however, as low volume as the 98mm Dalbello Pro last. I only have one day on them, though, and pretty much all the local lifts shut down today, so . . .

Yeah, and thank you for running me through so many of those boots. I definitely found some of those boots fit well, and the s max fit very well. The reason I'm thinking three piece is because I've always thought a boot flex was soft and then boom, super stiff. I think it kinda feels like bottoming out a shock. And since 3 piece boots are more of an even flex throughout the movement, I thought a 3 piece boot might be something to try. I ended up with "stiff flex" cause I'm heavy and like to ski fast through chop, do cliffs, etc so I thought stiff made sense.

From looking at the Dalbello website, it doesn't look like they make a kypton pro anymore. There's a Krypton ID which is a 98 last, I wonder if this is the replacement.

Any folks out there/Greg recommend any three piece boots with tighter ankles and tighter upper cuffs? I understand that three piece boots will not be able to get as tight of a cuff as an overlap boot

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[nyskirat]

I think the ID is the Pro replacement.

[RShea]

I think the ID is the Pro replacement.

I thought the ID was the type of liner in them. They had the 2 different ID Max- the ones that came with the Intuition (made for them- which they could have been the Pro series?) liners and then the stock style Dalbello liner? The ID liners are listed now as their ID MyFit liners and the lower end 110 boots are listed as IF MyFit liners (IF is Instant Fit) and not the Intuition style.

[CYJ]

I'm currently 30 days in to my Krypton 130 IDs, and previously skied FT First Chair 10s. If stiffer is what you're after (and if they fit your feet), definitely go for the Kryptons. Maybe you're aware of this already, but Kryptons come with cuff inserts to add extra stiffness.

FWIW, since you say the FT fits you well, FT is coming out with a First Chair 130 next season which come with a 12 flex tongue.
http://www.slopestyle-ski.com/hardgo...-2021-pid-9155
With the season basically over due to covid-19 and if you've the budget, maybe an option would be wait until next season? Gripwalk soles too if you're into that.
I have no experience with a 12 tongue so ymmv, but it probably won't improve the lack of lateral stiffness compared to Kryptons.

[CYJ]

I thought the ID was the type of liner in them. They had the 2 different ID Max- the ones that came with the Intuition (made for them- which they could have been the Pro series?) liners and then the stock style Dalbello liner? The ID liners are listed now as their ID MyFit liners and the lower end 110 boots are listed as IF MyFit liners (IF is Instant Fit) and not the Intuition style.

I think that was the case a couple years back when the Kryptons were offered, like you said, with an intuition and non-intuition liner options. if intuition, it said "ID".

Now, there doesn't seem to be any mention of "Intuition" in any of their site/catalog/product branding for at least the past 2 seasons. I'm convinced my Krypton liners are still Intuition (and I have no complaints about the liner itself, even after it took a shop 3 consecutive heat molds to do it right wo fucking it up) but just curious if anyone can confirm.

[RShea]

I think that was the case a couple years back when the Kryptons were offered, like you said, with an intuition and non-intuition liner options. if intuition, it said "ID".

Now, there doesn't seem to be any mention of "Intuition" in any of their site/catalog/product branding for at least the past 2 seasons. I'm convinced my Krypton liners are still Intuition (and I have no complaints about the liner itself, even after it took a shop 3 consecutive heat molds to do it right wo fucking it up) but just curious if anyone can confirm.

The existing web site new boots use the ID and IF Myfit designations. The higher flex both have the IF MyFit wrap style and look very Intuition like in the photos (have not seen them in person at all at a shop so can't say.) Whether they are made by Intuition for them or what I really do not know. My 120's from a few years ago have the liner like this year's 110 flex that are not the wrap liner.

There of course seems to still be some deals out there on previous Pro series prior year boots- but sizes could be spotty and you would probably be purchasing online and have to either make sure your fit is close or deal with going to a fitter if no close by local shops have any Pros still....

[prsboogie]

I have a question for the bootfitters out there. I own and really like a pair of 120 Panterras with the IF tongue-style liner. I added material to the liner around the ankles for improved hold and no other alterations. I sometimes feel like I want to upgrade to the Panterra 130 which has the ID wrap liner for increased stiffness and liner moldability. I could get an ID liner for the 120s but I am leery. I know liners will increase stiffness as well as the tongue itself and I like the idea of heat molding the ID for a better fit in the boot. If I can increase stiffness with a new liner it's a lot cheaper then new shells.

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[PeachesNCream]

I'm currently 30 days in to my Krypton 130 IDs, and previously skied FT First Chair 10s. If stiffer is what you're after (and if they fit your feet), definitely go for the Kryptons. Maybe you're aware of this already, but Kryptons come with cuff inserts to add extra stiffness.

FWIW, since you say the FT fits you well, FT is coming out with a First Chair 130 next season which come with a 12 flex tongue.
http://www.slopestyle-ski.com/hardgo...-2021-pid-9155
With the season basically over due to covid-19 and if you've the budget, maybe an option would be wait until next season? Gripwalk soles too if you're into that.
I have no experience with a 12 tongue so ymmv, but it probably won't improve the lack of lateral stiffness compared to Kryptons.

How do the fit of Krypton 130 IDs compare with the FT first chair 10s? The full tilts felt "fine" but didn't have as good of a heel lock as the s max.

Also couldnt I get a first chair 10 while boots are on sale right now and if I needed stiffer, I could buy a 12 tongue later?

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