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  1. #1176
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Winthrop, WA.
    Posts
    1,237
    Hey riff,

    Which model of freeride spacer did you use for the H180's?

  2. #1177
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Maine Coast
    Posts
    3,709
    Al05

  3. #1178
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Evergreen Co
    Posts
    694
    Thanks! Iíd assumed that would work but looking online I was getting turned around.

    Quote Originally Posted by cat in january View Post
    Thereís a brake cover you can buy from hagan mountaineering if you remove the brakes. They are helpful and responsive with questions
    Quote Originally Posted by wilcox510 View Post
    Yes, there's no problem skiing C Raider without brakes. I'm using mine that way

  4. #1179
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    Wasatch
    Posts
    444
    Quote Originally Posted by NorCalNomad
    Well yeah that is part of the binding retention value.

    Quote Originally Posted by plugboots View Post
    Yeah, ATKs are harder to turn than sticking a pole and using that leverage on my Dynafits. So what, I got over it for the 10 other benefits.

    You guys are so crabby. To restate: I had 8 RV trofeos last year. I have 8 RV trofeos this year (note how I have the same bindings as last year, indicating that I like them enough to buy another pair). I noticed that the trofeos I have this year are remarkably easier to turn than the ones from last year. I thought my good friends in the Official ATK Binding Thread on TGR would find this interesting, so I posted about it.


    Carry on.

  5. #1180
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    Have you tried a screw retractor tool or a too score a shallow groove in the broken screw to use a flathead? Yeah, the screw is tiny and in a toight spot, but it should be possible to remove the screw without damaging the spacer too badly.
    Not yet. The idea is sound, but the screw itself is really tiny. I'll do some research re tools or shops that might be able to do it

  6. #1181
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    1,428
    I'm installing a pair of Trofeo Plus (Helio 180 version) and there are 2 sets of screws, one short one long. The short screws have the spacer in the bag which I assume is for the heel gap.

    Which screws go to the heels and which go to the toes?
    Name:  screws.jpg
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  7. #1182
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    SLC, Utah
    Posts
    3,038
    Quote Originally Posted by Benneke10 View Post
    I'm installing a pair of Trofeo Plus (Helio 180 version) and there are 2 sets of screws, one short one long. The short screws have the spacer in the bag which I assume is for the heel gap.

    Which screws go to the heels and which go to the toes?
    Name:  screws.jpg
Views: 809
Size:  238.9 KB
    the one with the heel spacer goes to the heel

    when in doubt you can put the screws in the holes and find the configuration where the screws protrude the same amount from both the toe piece and the heels

    Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

  8. #1183
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,821
    So ATK coming out with a Raider Evo next year?

  9. #1184
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,056
    Quote Originally Posted by CirqueScaler View Post
    You guys are so crabby. To restate: I had 8 RV trofeos last year. I have 8 RV trofeos this year (note how I have the same bindings as last year, indicating that I like them enough to buy another pair). I noticed that the trofeos I have this year are remarkably easier to turn than the ones from last year. I thought my good friends in the Official ATK Binding Thread on TGR would find this interesting, so I posted about it.

    Carry on.
    Ahhhh I misunderstood what you were getting at. Interesting that it's changed
    TLDR; Ski faster. Quit breathing. Don't crash.

  10. #1185
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    528
    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    Have you tried a screw retractor tool or a too score a shallow groove in the broken screw to use a flathead? Yeah, the screw is tiny and in a toight spot, but it should be possible to remove the screw without damaging the spacer too badly.
    drill press with extractor, hand rotate the chuck like youre tapping something in reverse

  11. #1186
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Maine Coast
    Posts
    3,709
    Recent ski sale left me with Helio 350 bindings. Decided to pull my r14 toes for the wider pattern to go on a pair of katana vwerks motivated in large part because the hole conflict with a third mount had greater space. Anyways a couple observations. First the R14 (hard to keep atk naming right, the ones with the rear brake) and the Helio 350 toes (crest) do not have hole conflict for same pin position. Second the base of the Helio 350 toes is thicker and has longer screws than the R14.

  12. #1187
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,821
    Quote Originally Posted by cat in january View Post
    Recent ski sale left me with Helio 350 bindings. Decided to pull my r14 toes for the wider pattern to go on a pair of katana vwerks motivated in large part because the hole conflict with a third mount had greater space. Anyways a couple observations. First the R14 (hard to keep atk naming right, the ones with the rear brake) and the Helio 350 toes (crest) do not have hole conflict for same pin position. Second the base of the Helio 350 toes is thicker and has longer screws than the R14.
    I donít think any of the ATK bindings should have hole conflicts for the same BSL (although they may reuse holes) based on looking at the jig I have.

  13. #1188
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,821
    Quote Originally Posted by Spyderjon View Post
    My QK screw spec for the Freeraider 14's is 10mm countersunk flat heads for the toe and 10mm pan heads for the heel. The pan heads need their head diameters reducing to 8.4mm.

    However, the Moment version of that binding has a 4mm thicker toe base so you're going to need 14mm csk flat heads for the toes. Like this:
    Attachment 399795

    In the UK & Yurp, being the lands of metric, we use the 5mm machine screws with no.2 pozi heads, not the bastardised no.3 pozi heads that BF use. The BF screws heads are therefore taller so overall length of their csk flatheads might be a tad longer.

    Hope this helps.
    Hey just wanted to update this. I got a little questionable about what is what when I went to binding freedoms site and saw they have totally different suggested screws for the free raider. They say 16 - 12mm flat heads with diameter reduced to 8mm. They may be talking about the 1.0

    In any case, I decided I better just pull the binding and measure to be sure. Lo and behold the extra stack height on the voyager does not add to the screw length, not surprised but glad I checked. I also measured the screw heads at 8.6mm FWIW.

    So Spyderjon thanks for the help, you are spot on with the measurements. I am going to let BF know about the lengths for their website.

  14. #1189
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    1,535
    Question re: running the ATK kevlar core leashes on the current "springless" Raider toe: The instructions show the leash threading through a hole in the side of the toe lever and getting secured with a little plastic nubbin, but the Raider toe doesn't have that hole on the side of the lever. There is a hole behind the plastic pad to open the toe on the top side, but it doesn't have the same recess for the plastic nubbin to snap into and doesn't feel very secure. I'm worried the nubbin will fall out and the leash will come unmoored. Any advice?

  15. #1190
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Nottingham, UK
    Posts
    1,249
    Quote Originally Posted by HAB View Post
    Question re: running the ATK kevlar core leashes on the current "springless" Raider toe: The instructions show the leash threading through a hole in the side of the toe lever and getting secured with a little plastic nubbin, but the Raider toe doesn't have that hole on the side of the lever. There is a hole behind the plastic pad to open the toe on the top side, but it doesn't have the same recess for the plastic nubbin to snap into and doesn't feel very secure. I'm worried the nubbin will fall out and the leash will come unmoored. Any advice?
    The C-Raider uses the nubbin fixing method but with all the other Raider models you just attached the leash conventionally by looping it through the hole in the toe lever.

  16. #1191
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    73
    anyone appreciably noticed the not-entirely-flat mode that results from adding the freeride spacers to something like MTNs?

    I got a pair ready to install and as I was dry-fitting them last night I realized that flat-mode would no longer be truly flat. had me second-guessing the whole thing, but i'm probably over-thinking things and should just do it.

  17. #1192
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    1,535
    Quote Originally Posted by Spyderjon View Post
    The C-Raider uses the nubbin fixing method but with all the other Raider models you just attached the leash conventionally by looping it through the hole in the toe lever.
    Thanks. At first glance it didn't look like the clip was going to fit through the loop for that method, but it does go just fine if you open the clip and snake it through.

    Slight bummer that the other Raider versions don't use the nubbin, since it's a fair bit cleaner. But no biggie.

  18. #1193
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    353
    So Iíve got a line on the new Kuluar 12 at a pretty good price. 399. It will be going on a movement alp tracks 90 as my ultra light setup. Checks a lot of boxes for me, elastic heel and higher release value (Iím 6í4, 220)

    Anyone have any experience on this new binding? Also, is it safe to say the little brake filler piece is the same as all the others? The ones I found have brakes and Iíll run them without

  19. #1194
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    1,428
    I haven't played with it in person but it looks like the brake system is identical to their other bindings. I've run ATKs brakeless without the filler piece no problem, it kinda seems like a waste of money unless it comes with your binding. I've also used the filler piece and I don't think it does anything to mitigate snow/ice build up (not that its a huge problem either way).

  20. #1195
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    538
    Over the years I've managed to break (and replace) both heel pieces on my old Dynafit vertical ST bindings and the old Bro 183's that they're mounted on are also quite long in the tooth. So, I'm starting to plan my perfect do everything touring ski. I'm thinking it will be something in the 98-104 waist that's on the slightly lighter side but not too light. Maybe a Navis FB.

    Regardless of ski, I'm pretty certain that I'll get some form of ATK binding. My current challenge is just making sense of their lineup. Why do they make a half dozen or more bindings that all fill essentially the same niche? Can anyone point me to an article or thread post that makes sense of their lineup? I've skimmed through a fair bit of this thread but it's over 30 pages long...

    I don't need breaks. I typically set the DIN to 7 or 8. It seems like the RT 10, Crest 10, Kuluar 9 LT, or Haute Route 10 all do basically the same thing. I'm sure that I'm missing some key technical distinction.

  21. #1196
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    72
    Quote Originally Posted by Spyderjon View Post
    My QK screw spec for the Freeraider 14's is 10mm countersunk flat heads for the toe and 10mm pan heads for the heel. The pan heads need their head diameters reducing to 8.4mm.

    However, the Moment version of that binding has a 4mm thicker toe base so you're going to need 14mm csk flat heads for the toes. Like this:
    Attachment 399795

    In the UK & Yurp, being the lands of metric, we use the 5mm machine screws with no.2 pozi heads, not the bastardised no.3 pozi heads that BF use. The BF screws heads are therefore taller so overall length of their csk flatheads might be a tad longer.

    Hope this helps.
    Would I use 14mm as well if using the ATK toe shim on fr14s and inserts?

  22. #1197
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Breckenridge
    Posts
    700
    Quote Originally Posted by Buke View Post
    Over the years I've managed to break (and replace) both heel pieces on my old Dynafit vertical ST bindings and the old Bro 183's that they're mounted on are also quite long in the tooth. So, I'm starting to plan my perfect do everything touring ski. I'm thinking it will be something in the 98-104 waist that's on the slightly lighter side but not too light. Maybe a Navis FB.

    Regardless of ski, I'm pretty certain that I'll get some form of ATK binding. My current challenge is just making sense of their lineup. Why do they make a half dozen or more bindings that all fill essentially the same niche? Can anyone point me to an article or thread post that makes sense of their lineup? I've skimmed through a fair bit of this thread but it's over 30 pages long...

    I don't need breaks. I typically set the DIN to 7 or 8. It seems like the RT 10, Crest 10, Kuluar 9 LT, or Haute Route 10 all do basically the same thing. I'm sure that I'm missing some key technical distinction.
    Well, here is my disctinctions:
    RT 10: The best option if price is no object. Fully adjustable RVs, 260g, ski flex compensation
    Crest 10: The cheap RT 10. Still has fully adjustable RV, 280g, ski flex compensation
    Kuluar 9 LT: No adjustable RV but still has ski flex compensation. Has adjustable lateral RV, 200g no brakes
    HR 10: Fully adjustable RV, no brakes, no ski flex compensation. 165g

    So decide what you want, do you want adjustable RV? Do you want ski flex compensation? Do you want brakes?

    I personally find the Crest 10 to be the sweet spot. If price was not a concern I would get RT 10. If you get a binding with brakes and remove them you will save about 60g
    I find ski flex compensation and adjustable RV to be most important to me.

    One more note, toes for all purposes are the same. On the HR and RT the toes are lighter(more material moved at safe places) but I consider them to have the same strength. They all have the same design. (and snow packing issues)

  23. #1198
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Amherst, Mass.
    Posts
    4,534
    Quote Originally Posted by Buke View Post
    [...] Regardless of ski, I'm pretty certain that I'll get some form of ATK binding. My current challenge is just making sense of their lineup. Why do they make a half dozen or more bindings that all fill essentially the same niche? [...]
    You left out all the rebranding by ... well, I think we've all given up on keeping track of how many different companies are rebranding ATK bindings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buke View Post
    [...] Can anyone point me to an article or thread post that makes sense of their lineup? [...]
    I'm not aware of any. We tried that here previously, then we collectively gave up, especially with the increasingly complicated year-to-year changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buke View Post
    I don't need brakes. I typically set the DIN to 7 or 8. It seems like the RT 10, Crest 10, Kuluar 9 LT, or Haute Route 10 all do basically the same thing. I'm sure that I'm missing some key technical distinction.
    RT and Crest seem to be essentially the same: continually adjustable release settings for both lateral and forward, integrated adjustment track, and integrated brake, with some trivial weight savings for the RT. I'm pretty sure the Hagan Pure is just a rebranded Crest. I've mounted many of those, both with brakes and without. Seems like a nice basic model. I'm not sure if the RT and Crest can be set up w/o brakes? I've never tried *removing* the brakes from the Hagan Pure, since they're shipped to me w/o brakes for people who order them that way, but *probably* easy to remove.

    Kuluar is similar to the RT and Crest: continually adjustable release settings for lateral, integrated adjustment track, and integrated brake, but also available stock without the brake (and a little cosmetic plastic piece substituted in where the brake would be, which is also an option for the Hagan Pure).
    But the forward release setting is fixed, via a U spring/fork, like a full-on skimo race binding. Except the weight savings appear to be trivial or even nonexistent, depending on the baseline for comparison.
    You also get a slightly higher second heel elevator position, which seems at odds with the no-frills approach to the forward release setting.

    Haute Route is very similar to the RT and Crest except for no brake, and the fore/aft adjustment is via a separate plate.
    Alternatively, you can mount the binding directly sans adjustment plate (i.e., for those boots that you will absolutely use forever until the end of time ... or until a couple seasons from now when you'll need to remount for you new boots that you will also absolutely use forever until the end of time).
    BD sells such a direct-mount version of the Haute Route as the rebranded Helio 200 LT.
    BD also sells that same binding packages with the adjustment plate as the rebranded Helio 200 ... except that the toe lever is slightly trimmed down, like on a skimo race model, which of course makes no sense on a slightly heavier model.
    BD furthermore sells the Haute Route, and apparently packages with the crampon clips, which is a good deal if you ever plan to use crampons, as the separately sold clips are quite pricey.

    BTW, all that reminds me, if anyone ever needs crampon clips, I can probably get you some for a good price from all those Hagan Pure bindings I've mounted up for skiers who will never need ski crampons.
    Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series

  24. #1199
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    tahoe de chingao
    Posts
    810
    Yeah if you can stay in a 10 din binding, the crest 10 is ideal performance per dollar imho. Assuming you want more features than a skimo style race heel, they're pretty hard to beat for weight and price.

    the crest 10 on some wildcat 108s has been a pretty great all around ski for touring. The combo works well with both superlight and freeride boots (tlt7 and the new dynafit radical pro boot)

  25. #1200
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    50
    Yeah like Ben, I've been on Crests for 2 years and never used the brakes which are a little fiddly. The filler piece is really cosmetic. Use it if you have it but otherwise, meh

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