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  1. #951
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    Sep 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Every one needs to be spun to get flat mode.

    ... Thom
    But once you have spun it once, you just flip the riser up and have it. No extra spinning required rk get the high riser. On the trofeo you spin 90 degrees to flat mode, but if you want a riser you have to spin it again.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using TGR Forums mobile app

  2. #952
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Colorado Front Range
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    4,315
    Quote Originally Posted by fleaches View Post
    But once you have spun it once, you just flip the riser up and have it. No extra spinning required rk get the high riser. On the trofeo you spin 90 degrees to flat mode, but if you want a riser you have to spin it again.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using TGR Forums mobile app
    That was my point. How many tech binders are out there where you can get flat mode without some sort of reaching down to the heel piece?

    Tectons/Vipecs? I'm sure they are one or two others, but they're in the minority.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  3. #953
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Where homo sapiens have outgrown their use.
    Posts
    8,078
    Quote Originally Posted by tgapp View Post
    It's downright cartoonish how good ATK is at making bindings
    Agree to disagree. The bindings are "fine," but I don't understand the hype surrounding them. Their QC is demonstrably not very good, they're shitty communicators, their website is loaded with pseudo-technical info, while lacking in the real kind, they can't maintain a consistent product line for more than 3 months, but they have the resources to sell their bindings to every ski company under the sun to re-badge, etc. I'm going to think long and hard before I buy another pair of them.

    The Crest 10's I bought from Spyderjon a couple months ago have silver springs. They did feel a little soft when I've been skiing them, but I assumed that was just because it's a 300g binding and it's inherently not going to ski that well/powerfully. I suppose I should look into getting those springs replaced though.
    "Hakuna matata, motherfucker!"

  4. #954
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    Sep 2019
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    Bay Area
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    297
    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    That was my point. How many tech binders are out there where you can get flat mode without some sort of reaching down to the heel piece?

    Tectons/Vipecs? I'm sure they are one or two others, but they're in the minority.

    ... Thom
    Ah sorry I see. Yeah tecton/vipecs were my first touring bindings so was a little spoiled with ease of risers.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using TGR Forums mobile app

  5. #955
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Driggs
    Posts
    301
    Quote Originally Posted by fleaches View Post
    Ah sorry I see. Yeah tecton/vipecs were my first touring bindings so was a little spoiled with ease of risers.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using TGR Forums mobile app
    Yeah, I spent most of two years just skiing Vipecs, and I got pretty used to the convenience of being able to pop my heel and leave my toe in for long skate exits, lock in my heel whenever I wanted to downskin, and access flat mode with just my pole. But they're pretty unique in that regard, it's not a standard feature for touring bindings at all.

    That said, after most of a season in Freeraiders, the benefits of ATK's system outweigh those small conveniences, for me at least.

  6. #956
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Chicken Coop, Seattle
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    2,880
    Quote Originally Posted by Benneke10 View Post
    How thick are they?
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  7. #957
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Front Range, CO
    Posts
    144
    A lot of good info in this thread! I'm looking for a recommendation on the Crest vs Raider for a dedicated touring setup (Volkl Blaze 106 with Maestrale RS boots). I'm 5'10" 165lbs mostly CO meadow skipper with some bigger spring lines (currently running DF Vertical ST's with no complaints). I was planning on getting the Crest until reading about some of the heal piece durability issues and that the Raider may have better/easier riser functionality. Wondering if the Raider is worth the extra cost and more durable in the long run? (I don't care about the small weight penalty)

    Side question: Would the Raider be an acceptable resort ski on a soft day? My primary goal is a dedicated touring setup, but it might be nice to have the option for hiking up and riding lifts in the morning.

    Appreciate any feedback. Cheers!

  8. #958
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BC
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    1,255
    Quote Originally Posted by cydwhit View Post
    Yeah, I spent most of two years just skiing Vipecs, and I got pretty used to the convenience of being able to pop my heel and leave my toe in for long skate exits, lock in my heel whenever I wanted to downskin, and access flat mode with just my pole. But they're pretty unique in that regard, it's not a standard feature for touring bindings at all.

    That said, after most of a season in Freeraiders, the benefits of ATK's system outweigh those small conveniences, for me at least.
    What benefits are you talking about?

  9. #959
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Maine Coast
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    3,196
    Quote Originally Posted by Benneke10 View Post
    A few weeks ago I was complaining about how the elasticity springs in my Hagan Pure/Crest bindings were really soft and squishy, and friends who have the same bindings all had varying degrees of squishiness. I even took them in to SkimoCo where I tested mine against a demo pair they had, both were very soft but mine were a bit softer. Hagan told me that there was a "batch" of springs from ATK that were too soft and replaced mine for free. The original springs I had were silver, as are the springs of all my friends who had bought them fall 2020 or earlier. The replacement springs are black MUCH stiffer, would not mistake them for my old ones or the springs on any of my friends bindings.

    Anyhoo, I just got a new pair of Crests and they came with stiffer springs, painted black. I don't think that the soft springs were just from one "batch," and it looks like they quietly made an update. If you have silver elasticity springs you might want to reach out and get some black ones.
    So how do you hand test the compensation spring? I have a pair of helio 350 mounted I can move the heel aft with some force, not a ton. And a pair of unmounted fr14 that I can not get to move holding in two hands and applying as much pressure as I wish for unmounted bindings. May do a 2x4 mount to check. Short question maybe is, did any springs make it into the rear brake raider heel?

  10. #960
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    485
    Quote Originally Posted by cat in january View Post
    So how do you hand test the compensation spring? I have a pair of helio 350 mounted I can move the heel aft with some force, not a ton. And a pair of unmounted fr14 that I can not get to move holding in two hands and applying as much pressure as I wish for unmounted bindings. May do a 2x4 mount to check. Short question maybe is, did any springs make it into the rear brake raider heel?
    I only tested bindings that were mounted. You probably couldn't get the squishy spring to move on an unmounted binding. I feel like they may have better QC on the Helio 350/ Raider heel since its their flagship product but I don't know

  11. #961
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    53
    just got a new R12. looks like the changed the drilling pattern in the front? If I remember correctly, it used to be square?
    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #962
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    Mid-tomahawk
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    1,116
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh79 View Post
    just got a new R12. looks like the changed the drilling pattern in the front? If I remember correctly, it used to be square?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yeah. Been discussed here somewhere, but apparently they ran into patent trouble on the mount pattern and had to change it to avoid infringement.

  13. #963
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    53
    ah yes...does ring a bell! I think Dynafit sued them? Don't know if it's even possible to patent a drilling pattern?!?!

  14. #964
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by tomh79 View Post
    ah yes...does ring a bell! I think Dynafit sued them? Don't know if it's even possible to patent a drilling pattern?!?!
    It’s only in like Italy that there’s a “patent” issue. For example, the Moment Voyagers won’t be changing from the square mount pattern because they’re not sold in the territory that stupid ass patent exists.

  15. #965
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
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    4,315
    Quote Originally Posted by HAB View Post
    Yeah. Been discussed here somewhere, but apparently they ran into patent trouble on the mount pattern and had to change it to avoid infringement.
    Read up thread a few pages.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  16. #966
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    485
    ATK Kuluar just dropped: https://prime-skiing.de/atk-bindings...2022-pid55993/

    Looks like they took the Crest and swapped out the heelpiece for a U-spring with adjustable lateral release, keeping the 10mm elasticity and brake compatibility. Weighs 200g without the brake, ~30g lighter than the Crest.

    And some new info on the Freeraider 16: https://prime-skiing.de/atk-bindings...2022-pid55981/

    It comes with their new 4mm Raider toe shim and the Freeride spacer stock. The engineers at ATK must have consulted with the genius minds over at Moment to figure out how to raise the toe piece by a few mm, because when you look at how they talk about the Voyager you'd think it was rocket science..

  17. #967
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    698
    Quote Originally Posted by Benneke10 View Post
    Oh that’s good that they’ve added some variety to their previously very limited product line.

    Apparently “kuluar” means “behind” in Croatian.

  18. #968
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Breckenridge
    Posts
    662
    Hmmm, same weight essentially as the rt10, would be nice while going lighter if they used the rt toe to drop it to 180 or 190g with the ERS. I'd be interested in that

  19. #969
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    FR&CH
    Posts
    277
    Quote Originally Posted by jorion View Post
    Oh that’s good that they’ve added some variety to their previously very limited product line.

  20. #970
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    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
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    4,315
    It's getting to the point where they should just start having a "binding builder" table: pick toe piece X and heelpiece Y.

    ...Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  21. #971
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Bay Area
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    297
    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    It's getting to the point where they should just start having a "binding builder" table: pick toe piece X and heelpiece Y.

    ...Thom
    That would make a lot more sense...

    Sent from my Pixel XL using TGR Forums mobile app

  22. #972
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Reno
    Posts
    926
    Quote Originally Posted by Benneke10 View Post
    It comes with their new 4mm Raider toe shim and the Freeride spacer stock. The engineers at ATK must have consulted with the genius minds over at Moment to figure out how to raise the toe piece by a few mm, because when you look at how they talk about the Voyager you'd think it was rocket science..
    E=mc^2

    It's pretty cool to work with a company like ATK that allows us to modify their existing design then end up liking the changes so much that they offer it in their product line.

    ...back to designing rockets...

  23. #973
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
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    4,315
    Quote Originally Posted by Melee View Post
    E=mc^2

    It's pretty cool to work with a company like ATK that allows us to modify their existing design then end up liking the changes so much that they offer it in their product line.

    ...back to designing rockets...

    I think you should "design" a new color that ATK can subsequently adopt.

    Here's a start: https://www.w3schools.com/colors/colors_picker.asp
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 04-16-2021 at 05:12 PM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  24. #974
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Reno
    Posts
    926
    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    I think you should "design" a new color that ATK can subsequently adopt.

    Here's a start: https://www.w3schools.com/colors/colors_picker.asp
    We never said we "designed" a toe shim. I don't know why you always have to make some dick comment to anything I write in this thread...

    We pushed to have a modification made to the binding that many people have to deal with in the aftermarket world.

    It's not a revolutionary design change, we didn't come up with the concept, but we did push ATK to make this change for us because we prefer less ramp in our bindings and feel that the general population of skiers will prefer a pin binding with less ramps whether they know it or not.

    Now they are implementing this modification into their production bindings and we think that is pretty cool. Hopefully with this momentum we will see more brands make touring bindings where a flatter stance is the standard.

  25. #975
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    4,315
    Quote Originally Posted by Melee View Post
    We never said we "designed" a toe shim. I don't know why you always have to make some dick comment to anything I write in this thread...

    We pushed to have a modification made to the binding that many people have to deal with in the aftermarket world.

    It's not a revolutionary design change, we didn't come up with the concept, but we did push ATK to make this change for us because we prefer less ramp in our bindings and feel that the general population of skiers will prefer a pin binding with less ramps whether they know it or not.

    Now they are implementing this modification into their production bindings and we think that is pretty cool. Hopefully with this momentum we will see more brands make touring bindings where a flatter stance is the standard.
    Well, as I said in this thread back in October, congratulations on bringing ATKs into the country. So, I'll say it again: congratulations on bringing ATKs into the country.

    The reason I was yanking your chain is the same reason I do it to several friends who are in sales. They can't seem to "turn it off". They're always "on" (performing). I still like 'em, but I give them hell when they try to blow smoke up my kilt with market speak.

    You and @spyderjon are my top two referrals to friends for ATKs (no disrespect to Hagan, but fuggedaboud Black Diamond). I suppose the next pair of "Raiders" I get, I'll have to get some 4mm heel shim material to restore the 11mm delta (just kidding ... 7-11mm is in my sweet spot ... Vipecs @11 ski fine for me, as do my "flatter" Helio 200s).

    Peace,
    Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 04-16-2021 at 09:05 PM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

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