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  1. #401
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    Mar 2017
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    SLC, Utah
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melee View Post
    Well the FR14 on Spyderjon site is GBP499 - This is $645 USD and does not include shipping, duties or taxes.

    I cant find the shim on the the Skimo.co site so if it exists or not is unclear and who knows the price (although most B&D shims are about $35-$40 for the pair and do not include screws). When dealing with aftermarket screws you may or may not penetrate the skis core at the optimal depth. So everything to me looks like its going to cost more than $700 and you have to be someone in the know on the forums to make this happen.

    The ATK FR14 is not easily accessible in the USA and we wanted to change that since we think the FR14 is the best tech binding on the market but we still had some gripes about the ramp and didn't want to have to deal with aftermarket stuff. The guys at ATK are amazing and worked with us to modify and already awesome binding for our style of skiing.

    So you can get the Moment Voyager XIV for "$100" more but there is no hassle, you can get it all at one place, in one piece, knowing it was developed and tested by the manufacturer.
    these are all fair points, but it's not like binding shims are some unknown, unproven technology - "you might be okay but you might die if you use this shim". people have been shimming bindings for years with CUTTING BOARDS from the dollar store for fuck's sake, and no one (to my knowledge) has died or been hurt from a shim job.

    cool that moment is fixing this out of the gate though, again, props to them (and to melee) for responding here and fielding questions, etc.

  2. #402
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Nottingham, UK
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    I reckon I mount over half of my ATK sales with toe shims and I'm been pushing ATK to reduce the delta's across their range. For some reason most bindings manufacturers just seem oblivious to this. I'd like to see 5/6mm of delta across the ATK range as standard and then they offer a choice of different thickness shims/extended screws as extras.

    I make all my shims out of 2/3/4/5/6mm acrylic and the required longer screws are easy when installing them with QK/BF inserts but shims with a conventional ATK mount are a pain as all the different models have different toe mounting patterns and different mounting screws, so it'd be great if ATK offered a choice of shims/extended screws.

  3. #403
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gaperville, CO
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    5,844
    Quote Originally Posted by tgapp View Post
    these are all fair points, but it's not like binding shims are some unknown, unproven technology - "you might be okay but you might die if you use this shim". people have been shimming bindings for years with CUTTING BOARDS from the dollar store for fuck's sake, and no one (to my knowledge) has died or been hurt from a shim job.

    cool that moment is fixing this out of the gate though, again, props to them (and to melee) for responding here and fielding questions, etc.
    I've seen a toe pulled out because someone used improper length screws in a shimmed toe piece.

    Nothing to do with the shims. Completely preventable. This packaging by moment just reduces that hassle and gives you stateside support.

  4. #404
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Nottingham, UK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melee View Post
    Well the FR14 on Spyderjon site is GBP499 - This is $645 USD and does not include shipping, duties or taxes......
    No that's not correct. My GBP499 price is for sales within the UK/EU so it includes our 20% VAT. Sales to destinations outside of the UK/EU are exempt from the tax so the Freeraider 14 to the USA is GBP446 inc 2/3 day FedEx shipping = $575 on todays exchange rate with zero duty/tax as the shipped order value is under $800.

    You USA based guys are lucky as I know of no other country that allows private citizens to import anything like this value without having to pay tax, duty & customs clearance etc. UK/EU citizens can only bring in about $20 shipped value from the US before we get hit for a couple of % duty, a clearing fee equivalent to $15 and 20% tax!

  5. #405
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    United States of Aburdistan
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    7,281
    Thanks Melee and Jon, you are both rad and I'd like to support both of you if I could. Hopefully this doesn't turn into a battle here, I'm just choosing between two great options.

    Jon, can you confirm the ATK14 price, has it changed since the quote you gave me a few pages back? And do you sell your toe shim and ship it for overseas buyers amd for how much?

  6. #406
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Reno
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    1,031
    Quote Originally Posted by tgapp View Post
    these are all fair points, but it's not like binding shims are some unknown, unproven technology - "you might be okay but you might die if you use this shim". people have been shimming bindings for years with CUTTING BOARDS from the dollar store for fuck's sake, and no one (to my knowledge) has died or been hurt from a shim job.

    cool that moment is fixing this out of the gate though, again, props to them (and to melee) for responding here and fielding questions, etc.
    I never said you would die! haha. There are just a lot of variables with aftermarket stuff in any industry.

    Shims are pretty unknown to people who don't dork out on the forums...most people don't even know what ramp is and how it varies from forward lean in a ski boot.

    It's just a hassle. After buying a $600-$700 binding and $800 skis the last thing someone should have to do is got chop up an old CUTTING BOARD to sandwich between them!

    Do it right from the beginning.

  7. #407
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    SLC, Utah
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    4,281
    ^^ fair man, and again, props to you guys for fixing what is easily most american's biggest complaint with that binding. good on you for doing it right, stoked to see more bindings like these on the US market.

    and to muted's point - i agree completely, two great options, both from awesome mags who contribute regularly here. tgr is a pretty great place. both of you are totally deserving of support.

  8. #408
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Bellevue
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    7,431
    Quote Originally Posted by Melee View Post
    I never said you would die! haha.

    Shims are pretty unknown to people who don't dork out on the forums...

    It's just a hassle. After buying a $600-$700 binding and $800 skis the last thing someone should have to do is got chop up an old CUTTING BOARD to sandwich between them!
    I just want to point out that someone on this board has both extended his ski tips/tails with cutting boards and mounted bindings with carpet tape.

  9. #409
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    PNW -> MSO
    Posts
    7,889
    Best selling product at TGappSkiMoCo:

    Seasoned Artisanal Cuttingboard Shims for ATK toes - 5mm - now in Red Onion, Rare Steak Pink, Rancid Gryuere Green, and Calamari Cream.

    Roughed up surface provides superior friction stiction to the topsheet, in a way only cheap Cuisinart cutlery can imbue.

    Tenacious dual-purpose odors repel Pugetopolis Powder Technicians and Wasatch Pre-dawn Randocommandos while attracting trained avalanche dogs. Leave your avy bacon at home!

  10. #410
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    SLC, Utah
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    4,281
    ^^ total bullshit, as anyone who knows me can tell you, my shims are also FAIR TRADE, organic, and gluten free. wouldn't want to accidentally trigger a grain allergy in one of the avy dogs. only the best for powder pups.

  11. #411
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    832
    Finally got my Helio 350s mounted on Praxis MVPs with inserts. Other mounts are for vipecs, it works but was kinda a pain to line everything up and not collide. Super impressed with the bindings on the bench, if they ski as well as they feel the vipecs might never go back on. Freeride spacer on order from Hagan.


  12. #412
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Nottingham, UK
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    1,289
    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    .......Jon, can you confirm the ATK14 price, has it changed since the quote you gave me a few pages back? And do you sell your toe shim and ship it for overseas buyers amd for how much?
    muted, Yep, the price is unchanged. And yes, I can supply shims made from 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6mm clear acrylic (which can be stacked) with suitably longer screws. The screws can be either conventional binding screws or no.2 pozi s/s M5's for use with inserts. I drill and shape the shims to follow the shape of the base plate but with a few mm extra around the perimeter, like this:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The tax free cost of the shims is GBP28 per pair for the 2/3/4mm, GBP29 for the 5mm and GBP30 for the 6mm. A set of 8no. conventional extended toe screws is GBP10 and a set of 9no. extended M5 insert toe screws is GBP5. Including shims/screws in with a set of bindings won't increase the shipping cost.

    If you want to shim thicker than 6mm (ie if you stack two shims together) then I'll only charge GBP7.00 for the second set of shims as there's no extra labour as I stack all the raw material on top of each and drill'n'shape 'em in one go. I've done quite thick shims for alpine bindings (usually for people with weird anatomical shit going on) but on most tech bindings 6/7mm is about as thick as I'd recommend otherwise you adversely effect the heights of the climbing bars too much - although it's usually straightforward enough to graft some material on top of them as well.
    Last edited by Spyderjon; 10-20-2020 at 04:28 PM.

  13. #413
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    Mar 2006
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    Nottingham, UK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyderjon View Post
    ........I've done quite thick shims for alpine bindings (usually for people with weird anatomical shit going on)......
    Hopefully none of you guys'n'gals have legs that need a solution like this:

    Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #414
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Wenatchee
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    983
    Quote Originally Posted by Spyderjon View Post
    Hopefully none of you guys'n'gals have legs that need a solution like this:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That is some dedication if someone actually wants to ski requiring a mount like that...
    Common sense. So rare today in America it's almost like having a superpower.

  15. #415
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,680
    OMG!!! Is that from too much time in the saddle? Never seen anything like that

  16. #416
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    Mar 2006
    Location
    Nottingham, UK
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    Quote Originally Posted by rudy View Post
    OMG!!! Is that from too much time in the saddle? Never seen anything like that
    The guy is actually a very accomplished high alpine ski mountaineer/tourer and has completed many of the classic routes/peaks. He's now of 'senior' age and has been this 'shape' all his life. He's had similar shims for years with alpine bindings and a frame binding but transitioned to a tech binding a few years ago when I did these for him.

  17. #417
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
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    4,644
    Buy it from @spyderjon, get his shims, or alternatively, ask your local plastic shop to let you rummage through their scrap bin for some UHMW (cutting board material).

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  18. #418
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    SLC burbs
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    4,186
    Quote Originally Posted by Melee View Post
    Do it right from the beginning.
    This. Don't use an old cutting board, buy a fresh one. If you're dumb enough to have already shelled out $600-700 for a set of clamps you can splurge for a new cutting board.

    Shims as a novel concept for people who aren't tech savvy... Gimme a break, if someone can't figure out how to address pin delta they're not noticing it in the first place and it's a non-issue.
    Fixing the problem out of the gate will probably result in a $50 markup to account for the "new technology" of an integrated baseplate, I'll stick with making $4.99 shims.
    "Your wife being mad is temporary, but pow turns do not get unmade" - mallwalker the wise

  19. #419
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    665
    Quote Originally Posted by Spyderjon View Post
    Hopefully none of you guys'n'gals have legs that need a solution like this:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Holy Shim Batman!
    Are you correcting a severe knock knee or filling a severe bowleg?If filling a bowleg, can you explain filling versus moving the knee in with thick side out?

  20. #420
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
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    4,644
    Quote Originally Posted by Melee View Post
    I never said you would die! haha. There are just a lot of variables with aftermarket stuff in any industry.

    Shims are pretty unknown to people who don't dork out on the forums...most people don't even know what ramp is and how it varies from forward lean in a ski boot.

    It's just a hassle. After buying a $600-$700 binding and $800 skis the last thing someone should have to do is got chop up an old CUTTING BOARD to sandwich between them!

    Do it right from the beginning.
    And who is the arbiter of what's right?

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  21. #421
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Reno
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    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    And who is the arbiter of what's right?

    ... Thom
    Do whats right for you.

    Tinkering leads to innovation. We shimmed our tech bindings for years too...and there still plenty of folks who will continue to do that. That's cool.

    We are offering a complete no tinkering needed package easily accessible to USA customers.

    Now you can spend more time tinkering with your boots because at the end of the day we all want to be Hoji.

  22. #422
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    3,230
    The part of me that wants to be Hoji isn’t the tinkerer


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  23. #423
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    494
    Oof, must be friday. If you're catering to American preferences, should have gone to only 3 skinning positions! Not sure how you'd end up with three useful positions with that design, but 5 is too many.

    Great product though, for real. Staying on team mtn, but suddenly voyager-curious

  24. #424
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melee View Post
    ... We are offering a complete no tinkering needed package easily accessible to USA customers ...
    Wow! Great market-speak. No tinkering required ... if you like a 7mm delta.

    Waiting for your next release: VSA - variable stance adjustment (adjustable ramp via multiple shims).

    That being said, congratulations on importing and supporting the brand.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  25. #425
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Reno
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    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Wow! Great market-speak. No tinkering required ... if you like a 7mm delta.

    Waiting for your next release: VSA - variable stance adjustment (adjustable ramp via multiple shims).

    That being said, congratulations on importing and supporting the brand.

    ... Thom
    Shimming to zero delta gives you an insane stack height. So 7.5mm is a great compromise.
    You have to look at all the variables. If zero was a better option we would have done that but I guess that’s just marketing speak! You totally caught me!

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