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  1. #1
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    Official ATK Binding Thread

    In an attempt to suss out the dizzying ATK lineup, I put together a spreadsheet and posted it to the 300g binding thread (https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...83#post5917083).

    @Calbrit suggested starting up a thread dedicated to ATK binders, and here it is. He mentioned a Freeraider thread, but I couldn't find it. If anyone has any links you want me to stash in this post, lemme know.

    Some relevant links (non-TGR):



    Associated TGR Threads:


    Notes:
    • User measured pin delta (ramp angle) and riser heights were added to the chart below.
    • If you're sending in a measurement, please measure the distance from ski top sheet to center of toe and heel pins. While not perfect, it's the most transferable way of measuring this (that's how skimo does it as well).
    • Two comparison rows were added at the bottom (Fritschi Vipec Black, Plum Guide 12) to give you a riser height reference.
    • For numbers retrieved from skimo.co, their riser deltas look reasonable, but their intermediate numbers (the raw riser height in the column below) are inconsistent, and I left them out.

    Toe Height = Height from topsheet to center of pins with boot engaged (subtract any shims you've added).
    Heel Height = Height from topsheet to center of pins (subtract any shims you've added).
    Riser Height = Height from topsheet to where center of pins would engage in boot fitting (subtract any shims you've added).
    Ramp Delta = Heel height minus Toe Height
    Riser Delta = Riser height minus Toe Height

    I'll update the spreadsheet and screen shot (below) with 2020/2021 info. The catalog link is above.

    2020/21 Model Year Notes:

    • The Raider/Freeraider name now refers to the heel brake version of the line which now has 3 bindings.
    • The 3 versions in the Raider line are: Raider-12, C-Raider-12 (carbon base plate on toe), and Freeraider-14
    • The old Raider 12 (front brake) has been renamed the "Front 12" and there is no longer a 14 RV version with a brake at the toe.
    • The Haute Route gets a new buddy in the speed touring category - the Release 10 @240g (key features are elastic travel at the heel and some carbon composite)


    A downloadable copy of the spreadsheet is here (Excel 2013): https://galibierdesign.com/images/other_forums/ATK_Comparison.xlsx




    I'm not that familiar with the race bindings, so details like risers and such might be off. I think I got the OEM binding names from Hagan and BD correct. Lemme know and I'll make the necessary connections.

    A couple of questions were raised. Might as well paste them (and answers) here as well ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Eluder View Post
    Trofeo plus weight doesn't include the heel track which weighs 33g with hardware hence the Helio version being called the 180.
    https://skimo.co/black-diamond-adjustment-plates
    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Nice. Some good nuggets in that freeraider thread too.
    Still not that sure on RT 10 vs Crest main difference.... seems odd they are both in the line. Perhaps they won’t come next season.
    Quote Originally Posted by stuntmanbo View Post
    The RT10 has some system to setup the spring force on the toe when walking, like on the R12 / FR14. There are 5 different settings.

    http://www.atkbindings.com/wp-conten...t-8-_rev04.pdf
    Page 30.

    Other than that and 20g there is no other major difference, the RT10 may have a slight better finish.

    ... Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 05-24-2020 at 01:13 AM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    since I'm a one trick pony



    These were new for me today - had not seen them before. Basically a R12 heel mated with a toe made out of polycarbonates to save weight - coming in at a very respectable 305gr a binding. Awesomeness imho, and very impressive engineering. The new Front12 that he also introduces in the video is also pretty neat - for those who want their touring bindings to have fully active brakes in the toepiece.



  3. #3
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    Since it was asked before : The ATK rear stoppers fits about 2mm more without bending.
    The 97mm stoppers fits my 99mm skis without bending, the 108mm stoppers had to be bent a bit to fit my 112mm skis.
    This is about the same for the front stoppers, the 108mm stoppers fitted my 109mm skis tightly without bending.

    Here is my current touring quiver with 2 pairs of R12 :-)

    Last edited by stuntmanbo; 03-10-2020 at 05:53 AM.

  4. #4
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    Official ATK Binding Thread

    I got the thread name a little wrong:


    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...14-DIN-binding

    FR14 discussion later in the thread.

  5. #5
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    Thom...thank you for starting this. The column I would like to see that isnít there is a pin height delta or ramp or whatever youíd like to call it - something documenting the difference in toe height vs heel height
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  6. #6
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    Rumors that BD is bringing a version of the FR14 to the US for next season.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Rumors that BD is bringing a version of the FR14 to the US for next season.
    A couple of the BD SLC retail store guys confirmed that the Helio 350 will be out for next season.

    It was also mentioned in a blister review of the new Helio skis I believe (might not have been blister, but I saw it somewhere)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    Thom...thank you for starting this. The column I would like to see that isnít there is a pin height delta or ramp or whatever youíd like to call it - something documenting the difference in toe height vs heel height
    The u pin bindings are pretty much flat. They are about 6-7 mm with the adjustment plate.

    Other bindings all seem to be in the 10-11 mm range. Measured my FR14 at 11.

    Source:

    https://skimo.co/pin-heights

    Plus other internets.

  9. #9
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    You're a brave man for attempting this, thanks!

    If you want to get really picky though, the Hagan Ultra and the BD Helio 110 are exactly the same as each other.
    However, for the 2019-20 season, neither have an exact correspondence with the ATK line-up, since both the SL World Cup and SL Lightweight World Cup use the new rolling-in pins:
    https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...31288094425167
    ,,, which allow for a smoother entry (although bigger guys on firmer snow probably will never notice the difference, but should be a nice plus for lighter skiers and/or race transition zones w/ softer snow), and also won't wear down like Ti pins.
    As implied by that link I posted, you can buy the Hagan Ultra now and upgrade it to either the SL World Cup and SL Lightweight World Cup by simply substituting in the after-market rolling pin (which takes only several seconds). And this isn't much of an incremental cost since you can readily sell the OEM Ti pins to anyone who has worn-down Ti pins (myself included).
    For next season (and possibly further into the current season), the Hagan binding will become the Ultra World Cup with the rolling-in pins. I don't know about BD's plans.
    For those stuck in the Northeast, check out the NE Rando Race Series and my avalanche course. (For other avalanche course providers anywhere, feel free to use any of my "homework" assignments for your own courses too.)

  10. #10
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    More persnickitiness: the R.C.A World Cup Vertical and Revolution World Cup share the two-position heel riser of the SL World Cup and SL Lightweight Worldcup.
    (Which is really just the standard low riser plus flat -- or really slightly negative -- by turning the heel sideways. The Trofeo provides a higher position with a slightly different sculpting of the heel unit that allows that riser to be folding back flat in the opposition direction, then you spin the heel 180 degrees. In theory you can do this with the other models, but you'll risk breaking the flap!)
    For those stuck in the Northeast, check out the NE Rando Race Series and my avalanche course. (For other avalanche course providers anywhere, feel free to use any of my "homework" assignments for your own courses too.)

  11. #11
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    I've mounted quite a few ATK's (most with QK inserts) and have made a few toe shims for them. I've not yet skied a set but they've impressed me enough to be stocking them from next season.

    Here's a list of the QK screw specs for the bindings I've done so far. Some of them were last season so I'm not sure if they're still the same:

    Raider 12 2.0 - 16no. 10mm csk flat heads with head dia reduced to 8mm
    FR14 - 16no. 10mm csk flat heads
    FR14 2.0 - 16no. 10mm csk flat heads & 8no. pan heads with head dia reduced to 8mm
    R12 - 8no. 10mm csk flat heads & 8no. pan heads with head dia reduced to 8mm
    Crest - 8no. 12mm csk flat heads & 8no. pan heads with head dia reduced to 8mm

    And I've just made these FR14 2.0 4mm toe shims:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Spyderjon; 03-10-2020 at 06:26 PM.

  12. #12
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    Official ATK Binding Thread

    Was going to post this in the free raider thread but figured people with R12s might be interested as well.
    I had a pin work lose on one FR14 toe piece. ATK sent me a replacement set of toes which I might just put a dab of epoxy on to be safe. Saw someone post on atkís Instagram account of the same issue. Hereís a pic of the problem.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  13. #13
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    You'd better put vibratite or locktite on this, epoxy won't help a lot

  14. #14
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    Out of curiousity, did ATK deal directly with you? Their customer support has declined to assist me getting the little spacer part that fits under the FR 12 heel. Claim is no U.S. support, try the retailer and that's not going well. Probably have to fabricate one but curious if they would deal with a clear binding failure issue or is it go back to the retailer? Thanks.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan S. View Post
    [...] For next season (and possibly further into the current season), the Hagan binding will become the Ultra World Cup with the rolling-in pins.[...]
    Update of sorts: just now mounted a new setup that had arrived last Wednesday, and, oh, the Ultra bindings are already shipping with the new rolling-in pins.
    For those stuck in the Northeast, check out the NE Rando Race Series and my avalanche course. (For other avalanche course providers anywhere, feel free to use any of my "homework" assignments for your own courses too.)

  16. #16
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    I dealt directly with ATK, just sent an email with pic and they shipped replacement toes in 2 days to Utah.
    Do you mean the free ride spacer AL09?
    Looks like Hagan has them in U.S. or telemark-Pyrenees

  17. #17
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    Thanks Jonathan! I'll try to work the persnicketyness into the spreadsheet. It might be a challenge.

    @Suprechicken - I like the idea of ramp angles, but when I verified a couple of bindings I own vs. skimo's numbers, skimo's numbers were way off. I like their methodology - using the toe & heel pins as a reference (obviously extrapolating the heel pin location for Kingpins & Tectons). This was a rare case of them assigning this task to a rookie who wasn't paying attention however ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Rumors that BD is bringing a version of the FR14 to the US for next season.
    Hearing reports of a Helio 350 (2021 gear thread?). That's the weight of the FR14 (Freeride spacer included) as well as the R12 if you add the Freeride spacer (not included with the R12).

    ...Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Hearing reports of a Helio 350 (2021 gear thread?). That's the weight of the FR14 (Freeride spacer included) as well as the R12 if you add the Freeride spacer (not included with the R12).
    I too have had a little birdie tell me of the ~360g option being offered from BD next season. Being labelled as the Helio 350 would make a lot of sense.
    aerospace eng with a gravity fetish
    ig


  19. #19
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    Sep 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKlompus View Post
    I dealt directly with ATK, just sent an email with pic and they shipped replacement toes in 2 days to Utah.
    Do you mean the free ride spacer AL09?
    Looks like Hagan has them in U.S. or telemark-Pyrenees
    Thanks for the info, much appreciated. The part for F12 is noted as something -101 & has a snap-in feature. Have the actual part number so Hagan folks might wrangle one for me, I'll check. I suspect New York (U.S.) Customs had a field day with the box / contents & the second one was nowhere to be found.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuntmanbo View Post
    Since it was asked before : The ATK rear stoppers fits about 2mm more without bending.
    The 97mm stoppers fits my 99mm skis without bending, the 108mm stoppers had to be bent a bit to fit my 112mm skis.
    This is about the same for the front stoppers, the 108mm stoppers fitted my 109mm skis tightly without bending.

    Here is my current touring quiver with 2 pairs of R12 :-)

    any issues at all with the ATK hole pattern & the vwerks binding mount "restrictions"?
    I know Volkl softened their original strict stance, but did you notice any overlap/mismatch with the skis reinforced H-pattern?

  21. #21
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    Do the atk's come with a paper or sticker jig?

    Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    Do the atk's come with a paper or sticker jig?
    I just figured out that I can import their PDF templates into my CAD software and it retains the scale. From there, I can draw "proper" templates, but I'd ask that anyone using them do a test mount and give me feedback on proposed changes, since I can't mount a binder I don't have.

    I've drawn one for the Haute Route / Helio 200 and mounted it (but I'd still do a test mount before using it): https://galibierdesign.com/images/ot...Route_Thom.pdf

    Here's where their manuals and templates are (I'll put the link in the first post as well): https://www.atkbindings.com/en/downloads-2/

    Mounting tech binders is tricky, 'coz the distance of the toe inserts to the front of the boot varies. I drew the Haute Route template for my Zero-Gs whose inserts are 10mm behind the front of the boot. My old Mango Maestrales were 15mm from the front.

    When adjusting for another boot, you'd move the location of the front edge of the boot backward or forward on the template. Don't move the pin line which is always referenced to the 4 mounting holes!. It's a bit of a mind twister, which is one reason I recommend a test mount.

    BTW, (to my knowledge) all templates and jigs have to make an assumption of this variable. It's out of their control. I'm sure @spyderjon can comment if anyone has questions.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TG View Post
    any issues at all with the ATK hole pattern & the vwerks binding mount "restrictions"?
    I know Volkl softened their original strict stance, but did you notice any overlap/mismatch with the skis reinforced H-pattern?
    It was marketing malarky all along to get people to use Marker bindings - that is the H is real, but one can mount whatever tech binding one wants on said skis and it'll be fine. I've had Vipecs, Tectons and MTNs mounted on BMTs and MVWs, and have friends with Dynafits on theirs. Zero issues. If you want to be overly cautious you could mount with marine epoxy, but I doubt it is necessary (I have not used it).

  24. #24
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    The new ATKs R12 / FR14 toes have a wider pattern that fits in the H anyway. The heel also fits, like on the old Raider 2.

    The Mantra VW has a layer of titanal and the Volkl France rep told me you can mount any bindings on them.

  25. #25
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    And I confirm that I had some BMT 109 mounted with the old Raider 2, so the toe with the narrow pattern (same as plum, crest, etc), which is half outside the H, half inside, and no issues but Iím light.

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