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  1. #801
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,299
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyski View Post
    I haven't paid for a binding mount in 20 years but these fuckers (Core 12 pro) look complicated ("Pins Axis Transverse Line?" Fuck you) compared to old dynafits/pivots/vipes/sollyfits and I'm not rolling out $300 for goddamned jig. Give it to me straight: How hard is it? Do I have to actually be sober? Should I suck it up and give the local shop I bought them from some biz, which would feel like defeat and take too long with everyone on the tour horse now?
    I didnít do it but I did read it, I think itís easy just has you draw horizontal lines where the pin holes are and where the boot heel ends so you can get a perfect mount for your BSL, if youíre off by a mm it wonít matter as long as youíre centered longitudinally.

  2. #802
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    637
    Iíve done three mounts their way and weirdly Iím getting worse at it. Iíd say itís a little trickier than the other tech mounts Iíve done.

    The short version is you mark a long longitudinal center line and mark the boot center line. Based on those two lines make two more lines,one going through the toe pin holes and one immediately behind the heel pin holes. Do the toe piece mounts first, then pop the boot in and mount the heels so that they fall perfectly.

    Once I didnít make the pin transverse line totally perpendicular to the longitudinal line and that was a problem.

    The instructions are good, the problem with this mounting system is that having three different lines opens things up for easily misaligning the toe and heel pieces and tolerance is pretty low for that.

  3. #803
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    917
    ^^^that is exactly what Iím afraid of: ďclose enoughĒ for other bindings wonít be close enough for these

  4. #804
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Central VT
    Posts
    147
    I did a more free-hand approach using the templates to assist with initial location. Probably a little more time consuming ("measure thrice+, drill once"), but gave me more confidence. If you have mounted dynafits or similar free-hand, its no harder. Absolutely do not need to be sober as long as drunk you is fine with taking your time.

    1. Instead of lining up the pin-line with boots and template, I measured the distance between center and pins on my boot and added that to my tail pull. This felt a lot more accurate than eyeballing my pin line (whatever method you do, use a tape for the second ski to at least get an even mount)
    2. I used the paper to locate the toe holes to that line, but only drill one hole (make light punches, put binding on, use hole that centers toepiece best). Put boot in, center heel, locate the heel as Jorian describes.
    3. Same technique for heel, drill one hole. Then you can use the boot and the longitudinal line to align toe and heel as close as possible and punch the remaining holes. I like to get the heel set first and then drill/screw the remaining toe holes.

    I don't think this varies too much from the instructions, but drilling the holes in phases using the binding as the real template, not the paper, gives you a better chance of getting everything lined up in the end. If one of your lines was off a little and you punch and drill from the paper, thats a crooked mount. But if you drill just one hole, your binding might be off a mm or two in one direction or the other, but will ultimately be aligned with the longitudinal axis.

  5. #805
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    4,195
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyski View Post
    I haven't paid for a binding mount in 20 years but these fuckers (Core 12 pro) look complicated ("Pins Axis Transverse Line?" Fuck you) compared to old dynafits/pivots/vipes/sollyfits and I'm not rolling out $300 for goddamned jig. Give it to me straight: How hard is it? Do I have to actually be sober? Should I suck it up and give the local shop I bought them from some biz, which would feel like defeat and take too long with everyone on the tour horse now?
    It's tech binding. Eh? Is this the first time you've witnessed sketchy translation into English?

    Folks who use jigs are gonna use em for any binder (NTTAWWT).

    Everyone's gonna use their preferred method irrespective of brand (paper, free hand, etc.).

    Test mount for the win. I always draw my own templayes on my CAD tool, ' oz I'm OCD, but any method will work.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  6. #806
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Tahoe>Missoula>Fort Collins
    Posts
    1,579
    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    I'm OCD

    ... Thom
    And we love you for it


  7. #807
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,143
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyski View Post
    ^^^that is exactly what I’m afraid of: “close enough” for other bindings won’t be close enough for these
    Have you done lots of tech binding mounts by hand? Then these are cake. They even include step-by-step instructions in their mounting guide. You'll be done before you even have a chance to get drunk.

  8. #808
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    917
    Quote Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive View Post
    Have you done lots of tech binding mounts by hand? Then these are cake. They even include step-by-step instructions in their mounting guide. You'll be done before you even have a chance to get drunk.
    Vipecs and comforts, so if these are cake in comparison, awesome.

  9. #809
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Reno
    Posts
    919
    Quote Originally Posted by Westcoaster View Post
    Moment is stocking the pieces to replace the removed brakes, and clean up the heel assy hit up melee for a link.
    Now available. Sold as a pair: https://www.momentskis.com/products/...atk-heel-cover

  10. #810
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    917
    Thank you!!!

  11. #811
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    341
    Today on my Crests I adjusted the BSL to a smaller boot which I do frequently. When I started skinning I noticed that when I was using heel risers the springs in the heel unit are now flexing excessively. With every step the heel unit moves back several mm.

    I am 99% sure this has not been happening until today. This is basically the same thing that people complained about with the first gen G3 Zed binding and now I'm dealing with it on my Crests. I have put 30 days on these bindings so far with no problems. Has anyone else had this issue? Is it safe to keep skiing them?

  12. #812
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    341
    Name:  IMG_0107.JPG
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    Note the heel adjustment screw sticking out a bit when the heel riser is weighted

  13. #813
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    204
    Anyone been on the Release 10?

    Looks like my ideal - brakeless w/ 10mm elastic heel travel and 240g.
    Last edited by dub_xion; 02-20-2021 at 11:27 PM.

  14. #814
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    615
    Quote Originally Posted by dub_xion View Post
    Anyone been on the Release 10?

    Looks like my ideal - brakeless w/ 10mm elastic heel travel and 240g.
    I ski the Crest 10 brakeless, it looks like the same riser/adjustment plate for the rear, and the toe just has quad springs rather than the mono-link deal. They ski great, although Iíve been noticing some things that are aggravating me.

    The rear tower spins too easily, Iíve got them cranked to 9, my usual setting is 8, but if Iím shedding speed quickly or if the tail gets caught on a buried branch even lightly, my heel wants to rotate out prematurely. In deep snow, it also rotates pretty easily when using the risers. Maybe theyíve fixed these issues with the newer models.

    Also the riser situation isnít as good as I thought initially. On the high setting, the pointy end of the riser gets stuck on my boot sole, pulling the riser up, eventually totally disengaging it and putting you back to the flat setting.

  15. #815
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    204
    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon3 View Post
    I ski the Crest 10 brakeless, it looks like the same riser/adjustment plate for the rear, and the toe just has quad springs rather than the mono-link deal. They ski great, although I’ve been noticing some things that are aggravating me.

    The rear tower spins too easily, I’ve got them cranked to 9, my usual setting is 8, but if I’m shedding speed quickly or if the tail gets caught on a buried branch even lightly, my heel wants to rotate out prematurely. In deep snow, it also rotates pretty easily when using the risers. Maybe they’ve fixed these issues with the newer models.

    Also the riser situation isn’t as good as I thought initially. On the high setting, the pointy end of the riser gets stuck on my boot sole, pulling the riser up, eventually totally disengaging it and putting you back to the flat setting.
    Wow, thanks for your comments. Sounds like a little extra weight and ~$100 more for running the Raider (or various iterations/brandings) brakeless would be worth it for the performance and lack of aggravations.

  16. #816
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    237
    In contrast I haven't had any of these issues on my crests, but I doubt they have nearly as many days on them so I'm dreading the future a bit. Heel riser stays where I put it (for now) and the only release I have had was a legit crash and the bindings released as they should have. I wonder if some vibra tite or something sticky on the risers would help them stay in place better? Sounds like all the higher price point ATKs have magnets for this which is a cool idea.

    Was paying attention to this issue that Benneke mentioned above while I was out this weekend and did not notice any of that kind of slop, not sure what's up. But like I said probably not nearly as many days on mine.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using TGR Forums mobile app

  17. #817
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    SLC, Utah
    Posts
    1,624
    Quote Originally Posted by dub_xion View Post
    Anyone been on the Release 10?

    Looks like my ideal - brakeless w/ 10mm elastic heel travel and 240g.
    yep i got a ton of days on them

    some minor annoyances, but overall, i love that binder. they ski really well

  18. #818
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    JH
    Posts
    471
    As a completist, I just got the heel covers from Moment for running the Voyager without brakes. I have spent approximately three and a half hours sitting in a chair staring at them. They seem pointless. Can anyone here convince me otherwise?

  19. #819
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    341
    post some pics of those heel covers Im curious

  20. #820
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    JH
    Posts
    471
    Name:  image0.jpeg
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    I really cannot find the point. They do not sit totally flush, there is a little gap where presumably the fearful snow would get in. They also seem to spread the free ride spacers which does not seem ideal.

  21. #821
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,299
    Quote Originally Posted by telelebowski View Post
    Name:  image0.jpeg
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    I really cannot find the point. They do not sit totally flush, there is a little gap where presumably the fearful snow would get in. They also seem to spread the free ride spacers which does not seem ideal.
    Can you show them installed?

  22. #822
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    637
    I just acquired some old l138s with a bunch of holes in them. I'd like to put a pair of Trofeo pluses on them but existing holes make that complicated.

    Am I correct that the XXL Toe Adjustment Plate (R08A) is compatible with the Trofeo plus toe pieces? It would seem so, but I can't find info on the exact measurements of the R08A or which bindings they are compatible with. Seems like maybe all ATK toe pieces share the same mounting template except some of the burlier Raider/Freeraider-type bindings?

    I thought the ATK jig manual would also explain which holes are for what bindings, but it doesn't seem like that manual is available online.

  23. #823
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    341
    Quote Originally Posted by Benneke10 View Post
    Today on my Crests I adjusted the BSL to a smaller boot which I do frequently. When I started skinning I noticed that when I was using heel risers the springs in the heel unit are now flexing excessively. With every step the heel unit moves back several mm.

    I am 99% sure this has not been happening until today. This is basically the same thing that people complained about with the first gen G3 Zed binding and now I'm dealing with it on my Crests. I have put 30 days on these bindings so far with no problems. Has anyone else had this issue? Is it safe to keep skiing them?
    Update: apparently ATK had a small batch of weak springs and Hagan is getting me a new pair

  24. #824
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    whitefish
    Posts
    1,068
    Quote Originally Posted by jorion View Post
    I just acquired some old l138s with a bunch of holes in them. I'd like to put a pair of Trofeo pluses on them but existing holes make that complicated.

    Am I correct that the XXL Toe Adjustment Plate (R08A) is compatible with the Trofeo plus toe pieces? It would seem so, but I can't find info on the exact measurements of the R08A or which bindings they are compatible with. Seems like maybe all ATK toe pieces share the same mounting template except some of the burlier Raider/Freeraider-type bindings?

    I thought the ATK jig manual would also explain which holes are for what bindings, but it doesn't seem like that manual is available online.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  25. #825
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    637
    Awesome thanks!

    I will add that plate to the shopping list for the next euro purchase.

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