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  1. #926
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    ID
    Posts
    790
    Quote Originally Posted by chill winston View Post
    I prefer the front brake 2.0s (and the RT front brake version) better than the newer back brake version.
    Haven't skied the new ones, but I thought the old brakes were great if odd looking. Who cares as long as they work?

    Are those photos from this season?

  2. #927
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Breckenridge
    Posts
    655
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan S. View Post
    Tomorrow I'll be able to compare side-by-side the current race model heel flap vs a 2017-18 version.
    But I think you would agree that the key with any of these is to keep the torx-head bolt sufficiently tight so that the heel flap stays flat/closed while skinning?
    Otherwise it can flip up vertically that get broken by a boot heel stomping down on it.
    (If the heel flap stays on the heel pins as intended while touring, sure seemed impossible to break.)
    The arch has been changed to prevent any contact with anything other than the heel pins. In the past there was stress placed on the arms which can cause it to break even without the traditional mechanism of breaking(flap partly up and being stepped on)

  3. #928
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Amherst, Mass.
    Posts
    4,368
    Quote Originally Posted by timmaio View Post
    The arch has been changed to prevent any contact with anything other than the heel pins. In the past there was stress placed on the arms which can cause it to break even without the traditional mechanism of breaking(flap partly up and being stepped on)
    Ah, interesting, thanks.
    The change must have occurred before the 2017-18 season, because my old heel flaps have that same arch as the current model.
    (I did notice that the small cut-out is on the underside of my old heel flaps as compared to the top of the new heel flaps, but that doesn't seem to be making any significant difference.)
    For those stuck in the Northeast, check out the NE Rando Race Series and my avalanche course. (For other avalanche course providers anywhere, feel free to use any of my "homework" assignments for your own courses too.)

  4. #929
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    445
    https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...EpDlPPeuYVZkUo

    Hagan coming out with the Core 10 which has a toe plate with multiple positioning options. At 390g its only 40g heavier than the standard Core/Raider 12, which is pretty good considering a toe shim weighs 30g. For me the ability to move the toe forward for tight trees and back for deep powder and open slopes is very appealing.

  5. #930
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    CO/UT
    Posts
    3,066
    Quote Originally Posted by Benneke10 View Post
    https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...EpDlPPeuYVZkUo

    Hagan coming out with the Core 10 which has a toe plate with multiple positioning options. At 390g its only 40g heavier than the standard Core/Raider 12, which is pretty good considering a toe shim weighs 30g. For me the ability to move the toe forward for tight trees and back for deep powder and open slopes is very appealing.
    You're gonna adjust your mount point based on what you are skiing? Sounds like a solution in search of a problem to me. I see the appeal, if say, you share skis in your family, but I'll stick to bindings with one less moving part.

  6. #931
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    445
    Quote Originally Posted by snowaddict91 View Post
    You're gonna adjust your mount point based on what you are skiing? Sounds like a solution in search of a problem to me. I see the appeal, if say, you share skis in your family, but I'll stick to bindings with one less moving part.
    I wouldn't be constantly moving back and forth but maybe have them forward for early season low angle/ tight trees and move back as more exciting terrain opens up.

  7. #932
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by snowaddict91 View Post
    You're gonna adjust your mount point based on what you are skiing?
    At the very least, this offers the ability to adjust your mount point. For gear finnickers, this seems like a great feature. Binding looks burly though. They should just make an adjustment plate.

  8. #933
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    334
    Takes place of a toe shim as well, less ramp. Kinda cool.

  9. #934
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    445
    Quote Originally Posted by CirqueScaler View Post
    At the very least, this offers the ability to adjust your mount point. For gear finnickers, this seems like a great feature. Binding looks burly though. They should just make an adjustment plate.
    they do https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodo...essories/r013/

  10. #935
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Maine Coast
    Posts
    3,181
    Searched the thread to no avail. Does anyone know if there is a substitute grease to use for the binding lubrication? I can probably order through Hagan, but seems much simpler to just go to Napa

  11. #936
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Walpole NH
    Posts
    9,271
    White lithium
    crab in my shoe mouth

  12. #937
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Maine Coast
    Posts
    3,181
    Thanks buttahflake


    Just to make it easy, here is a link for lubricating the brakes on a crest
    http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768w6eFdK78

    And the heel on crest and raiders
    http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7LgFke01yU
    Last edited by cat in january; 04-05-2021 at 09:06 AM.

  13. #938
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Walpole NH
    Posts
    9,271
    No worries
    crab in my shoe mouth

  14. #939
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Maine Coast
    Posts
    3,181
    I did contact atk about using an AL05 spacer with the crest 10 and this is their response:


    I don’t suggest you to use an AL05 with a CREST 10 because you will drill it in a position where you don’t need to fill the gap with the sole boot, exactly in the concave angle.
    In addition to this, the AL05 spacer should be installed with a pair of skis large in the central part at least 95-100 mm.
    For this reason, usually, the spacers are drilled with free touring/free ride gear.
    Last edited by cat in january; 04-05-2021 at 09:07 AM. Reason: Moved links to post above

  15. #940
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Swiss alps
    Posts
    622
    If anybody in Europe (CH preferrably) needs a ATK freeride spacer (AL05), I have an extra one, new in the wrapper with screws.
    Edit: a pair, obviously.

  16. #941
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    445
    A few weeks ago I was complaining about how the elasticity springs in my Hagan Pure/Crest bindings were really soft and squishy, and friends who have the same bindings all had varying degrees of squishiness. I even took them in to SkimoCo where I tested mine against a demo pair they had, both were very soft but mine were a bit softer. Hagan told me that there was a "batch" of springs from ATK that were too soft and replaced mine for free. The original springs I had were silver, as are the springs of all my friends who had bought them fall 2020 or earlier. The replacement springs are black MUCH stiffer, would not mistake them for my old ones or the springs on any of my friends bindings.

    Anyhoo, I just got a new pair of Crests and they came with stiffer springs, painted black. I don't think that the soft springs were just from one "batch," and it looks like they quietly made an update. If you have silver elasticity springs you might want to reach out and get some black ones.

  17. #942
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    45
    I currently ski ATK Trofeos and really like them. Have probably 150-200k ft on them, and I've never had a problem with them. Like I literally have not had a problem with them. Which is exactly what I want out of a binding. And I don't really want to fiddle with a binding, either - heel riser up, heel riser down, heel rotated, heel rotated back, middle heel riser up, high heel riser up, etc. - during a skin. It just seems tedious.

    Given this, do you all think that there's a lot of advantage to the elasticity of the Crest? Weight-wise, that's probably as high as I would go, and only because we can get them cheap through various methods. If I had to pay full price, I'd want to try the much-talked-about Ski Trab Varios.

    Thanks all.

  18. #943
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    5
    I also have trofeos and crests (run breakless, bought before the Release 10 was a thing). I only notice the crest as skiing better in two cases. When in funky dense snow that is constantly cambering and decambering the ski. Similar to having a more progressive fork on the bike in rock gardens etc. The other place I notice the crest as being noticable is if you have a really soft ski. I have found the spring helps take-up some of the extra flexing of the ski underfoot and prevents prerelease.
    Moving forward I would buy crests for the flexibility if I can get similar pricing. The extra 50g without brakes is worth it for me to get adjustable vert RV and the ability to have slightly more piece of mind about prerelease on my ski noodles

  19. #944
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    334
    Quote Originally Posted by Benneke10 View Post
    A few weeks ago I was complaining about how the elasticity springs in my Hagan Pure/Crest bindings were really soft and squishy, and friends who have the same bindings all had varying degrees of squishiness. I even took them in to SkimoCo where I tested mine against a demo pair they had, both were very soft but mine were a bit softer. Hagan told me that there was a "batch" of springs from ATK that were too soft and replaced mine for free. The original springs I had were silver, as are the springs of all my friends who had bought them fall 2020 or earlier. The replacement springs are black MUCH stiffer, would not mistake them for my old ones or the springs on any of my friends bindings.

    Anyhoo, I just got a new pair of Crests and they came with stiffer springs, painted black. I don't think that the soft springs were just from one "batch," and it looks like they quietly made an update. If you have silver elasticity springs you might want to reach out and get some black ones.
    I wish someone in NA was doing better comms for ATK. All companies have issues with new bindings, and ATK IMHO has comparatively few issues compared to G3/Dynafit etc - but it would be nice for *someone* affiliated with ATK to be posting in an official capacity about this inline changes. Transparency is always best...

  20. #945
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    SLC, Utah
    Posts
    1,767
    Quote Originally Posted by Westcoaster View Post
    I wish someone in NA was doing better comms for ATK. All companies have issues with new bindings, and ATK IMHO has comparatively few issues compared to G3/Dynafit etc - but it would be nice for *someone* affiliated with ATK to be posting in an official capacity about this inline changes. Transparency is always best...
    It's downright cartoonish how good ATK is at making bindings and how bad they are at literally every other aspect of their business. Product line management (Thom has to keep a 32-tab spreadsheet to track minute changes between models), advertising, recalls, customer communication, etc. Small wonder they come from the country that brought us Fiat.

    Quote Originally Posted by CirqueScaler
    Given this, do you all think that there's a lot of advantage to the elasticity of the Crest?
    you're the dude who only skis a 78mm ski in all conditions, right? by my calculations the extra 50g will result in a net change of .03% less shitty snow for you to spray about when everyone else is too busy mountain biking and climbing. tough call to make there.

    i ski release 10's and i love 'em. can't say if they're better or worse or whatever, but agonizing over 50g differences is internet wankery at it's finest. IMO the freeride spacer makes a bigger difference than any sort of heel elasticity, but i'm even too lazy to bother putting that on. maybe next year.

  21. #946
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by Climbers Right View Post
    get adjustable vert RV and the ability to have slightly more piece of mind about prerelease on my ski noodles
    yeah, the 8 RV I run is pretty firm for me, and I think the 6 would be too soft. Not ideal. I've talked about this w/ a ski partner.

    Quote Originally Posted by tgapp View Post
    agonizing over 50g differences is internet wankery at it's finest
    Good point, except for thinking that this is agony. Just like walking uphill, I love the pain, even if it's stupid.

  22. #947
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    281
    Quote Originally Posted by CirqueScaler View Post
    I currently ski ATK Trofeos and really like them. Have probably 150-200k ft on them, and I've never had a problem with them. Like I literally have not had a problem with them. Which is exactly what I want out of a binding. And I don't really want to fiddle with a binding, either - heel riser up, heel riser down, heel rotated, heel rotated back, middle heel riser up, high heel riser up, etc. - during a skin. It just seems tedious.

    Given this, do you all think that there's a lot of advantage to the elasticity of the Crest? Weight-wise, that's probably as high as I would go, and only because we can get them cheap through various methods. If I had to pay full price, I'd want to try the much-talked-about Ski Trab Varios.

    Thanks all.
    I can't speak for elasticity, but the one thing I really prefer about the crest over the trofeo is that if you spin the heel you get flat mode and high riser with just your ski pole. I hate having to turn the trofeo heel piece if I want to switch. Even if I only have to do it once it's awkward and hard to turn. I think some of the other ATK offerings have this setup too but I have lost track of them all at this point.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using TGR Forums mobile app

  23. #948
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    4,265
    Every one needs to be spun to get flat mode.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  24. #949
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    ID
    Posts
    790
    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Every one needs to be spun to get flat mode.

    ... Thom
    How low is the unspun lowest mode?

  25. #950
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    334
    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    How low is the unspun lowest mode?
    Low enough. Pin height

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