Official ATK Binding Thread

[Benneke10]

I’ve been debating finding a pair of MTNs for the big skis, as I’ve got a better track record with them.

I know this is the ATK thread, but this is a perfect situation to try Trab bindings because the toes use the same mount pattern (and you can drop an original Vario heelpiece right onto the ATK adjustment plate)

[kamtron]

Thanks, Riff, I was hoping you'd chime in because I remember the pin issue for you. Unfortunately not what I was hoping to hear.... Kind of sounds like the experience you've had is what I've had with past Dynafit non-rotation models: they work great in predictable snow but prerelease in the deep and heavy or choppy. I want to get away from locking my toes except in extreme situations. The rotations, while heavy, did a good job with not releasing except when needed.

BTW my Trofeos have crimped pins holding the toe arms on, looks like they've upgraded the toes to deal with the press-fit pins falling out.

Anybody else have similar or different experience? I may still just try these on the big skis and see what happens.

[ezgzy]

Anecdotally I think Cy Whitling uses trofeos with a homemade stomp pad on his pow skis. He skis pretty hard and I tend to trust his decisions for binding choices

[Westcoaster]

Thanks, Riff, I was hoping you'd chime in because I remember the pin issue for you. Unfortunately not what I was hoping to hear.... Kind of sounds like the experience you've had is what I've had with past Dynafit non-rotation models: they work great in predictable snow but prerelease in the deep and heavy or choppy. I want to get away from locking my toes except in extreme situations. The rotations, while heavy, did a good job with not releasing except when needed.

BTW my Trofeos have crimped pins holding the toe arms on, looks like they've upgraded the toes to deal with the press-fit pins falling out.

Anybody else have similar or different experience? I may still just try these on the big skis and see what happens.

No issues with my trofeos at 190 on skis 78-100 width. I think its clear that mtns have a very high toe clamping force, i imagine the trofeos are more sensitive to U spring strength than the Mtns with respect to release.

[fleaches]

Thanks, Riff, I was hoping you'd chime in because I remember the pin issue for you. Unfortunately not what I was hoping to hear.... Kind of sounds like the experience you've had is what I've had with past Dynafit non-rotation models: they work great in predictable snow but prerelease in the deep and heavy or choppy. I want to get away from locking my toes except in extreme situations. The rotations, while heavy, did a good job with not releasing except when needed.

BTW my Trofeos have crimped pins holding the toe arms on, looks like they've upgraded the toes to deal with the press-fit pins falling out.

Anybody else have similar or different experience? I may still just try these on the big skis and see what happens.

I have trofeos on my BG108 and have had zero pre releases (180 pounds, RV 10 spring).

Usually I get those out for soft snow though and I don't really catch air when touring. They have held up fine the few times I had them in more variable/weird snow.

It does sound like the mtn probably has a stronger toe spring, I am always hearing about how people can skin in them unlocked. I think wildsnow has an article with measured spring constants or something?

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[kamtron]

Yeah the post is here: https://www.wildsnow.com/18803/compa...er-g3-dynafit/
Plum, Atomic, Marker, G3 strongest springs. Trofeo (aka helio) measuring slightly above standard Dynafit.

[kamtron]

Thanks for the other feedback.
I feel like I'm splitting hairs but it's hard to find a binding which is light, solid, accepts Dynafit ski crampons, and has >25 mm of BSL adjustment.

[Benneke10]

Thanks for the other feedback.
I feel like I'm splitting hairs but it's hard to find a binding which is light, solid, accepts Dynafit ski crampons, and has >25 mm of BSL adjustment.

ATK R12/FR14/FR16, ATK C-Raider, Ski Trab Vario Adjustable, Ski Trab Vario.2, Marker Alpinist long travel all meet your criteria

[cydwhit]

Anecdotally I think Cy Whitling uses trofeos with a homemade stomp pad on his pow skis. He skis pretty hard and I tend to trust his decisions for binding choices

While I appreciate the sentiment, I'm definitely in "follow me at your own risk, I'm not sure where I'm going" territory with the Trofeos this year. Listen to other people in this thread over me haha!

That said, just got back from my first real day on them with the stomp pad idea that I stole from somebody in this thread I believe? They ski good. Like, really good. But also, it's by far the least "safe" binding I've ever used, and I feel like I'm skiing them differently because I'm counting on them not releasing when I want them to. And maybe I'll blow a heel tower off the ski in a compression because I'm fat and they have no compensation? IDK. Definitely taking some calculated risks there.

[kamtron]

Yeah I want release when I need it. I don't think I would put in a block under my heel personally.

I'm honestly surprised I haven't exploded any dynafit speed turn heels in compressions myself, because I've definitely skied those pretty hard.

[Climber Joe]

While I appreciate the sentiment, I'm definitely in "follow me at your own risk, I'm not sure where I'm going" territory with the Trofeos this year. Listen to other people in this thread over me haha!

That said, just got back from my first real day on them with the stomp pad idea that I stole from somebody in this thread I believe? They ski good. Like, really good. But also, it's by far the least "safe" binding I've ever used, and I feel like I'm skiing them differently because I'm counting on them not releasing when I want them to. And maybe I'll blow a heel tower off the ski in a compression because I'm fat and they have no compensation? IDK. Definitely taking some calculated risks there.

What’s the homemade stomp pad?

Also Back to the release with toes. I think the trab toes are the best for wider skis and/or variable snow simply because they never actually “release” they simply allow your boot to slip out with enough force. You never hit a point of no return and they pop open, they have a sort of elastic travel that way.

[riff]

Yeah I want release when I need it. I don't think I would put in a block under my heel personally.

I'm honestly surprised I haven't exploded any dynafit speed turn heels in compressions myself, because I've definitely skied those pretty hard.

Kamtron, I’d still probably go for it too- especially if there’s a better fix on the pivot pins. I just got some new 105 waist skis , and will likely put my old trofeos on them and carry on. If i was buying bindings though, might go trab or mtn. I bet if the arm pivots are fixed and you clear the toes well after bootpacking etc, you’ll be fine!


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[rfconroy]

ok mag community.

I just had to do a slightly sketchy transition with some freeraiders on my feet this afternoon, and really struggled. I've got to be missing something, since this is the hardest tech binding ive been in to transition without pulling skis off your feet.

So what's the trick for releasing the brake, and spinning the turret?

[tang]

I wish the buttons were asymmetric - much easier to hit the inside one, versus outside right one.
Good post. I’ve been thinking on a better way than getting super low, in order to save my right hip! Maybe crossing right ski over. Or pulling tail up behind you and tip into snow, although tricky since heels aren’t yet locked down.
For me the right ski is the issue given the button on the outside and my right hip impingement.

[Tjaardbreeuwer]

@Tang 100% agree. Hitting that outside brake release.button is awkward.

[rfconroy]

Damn, these are responses I did not want to hear.

Does anyone know if ATK has put out any usability videos like Marker has done with the Alpanist and Kingpin, or G3 has done with the Zed and Ion?

[whatsupdoc]

So I searched but couldn't get an exact answer. I'll throw this out there for some more opinions. Anyways...

I've got some older Hagan Core 12s (same as the older Raider 2.0s) with the front brakes. They have a standard 4 hold Dynafit pattern with the dual spring toes (springs on each side as opposed to the Monolink toe).

I broke one of the front brakes. I'm not a massive fan of brakes anyways on touring skis, I usually use leashes. And I'd like to shim the toes and reduce the 11mm pin delta a bit.

I could easily remove the brakes and shim the current toes, but there's the superfluous material from the front brakes that's not removable. That would hang over the shim. No a big deal but was thinking maybe snow could pack in there and maybe cause some issues.

I was contemplating swapping the toes out for Trofeo toes. Same mount pattern. Cleaner shim. A little weight savings. The only different is the Monolink toe.

Anyone have any experience with the Monolink toe replacing the dual spring toes? Any big difference in retention?

I usually ski at a RV of 9 which probably matters. They're on 116 mm underfoot pow skis, I would mostly use them in soft snow.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

[Benneke10]

I'm pretty sure Tgapp as well as some others have used B&D toe shims with the older front brake toes. You could also get Spyderjon to make custom shims that will cover the footprint properly for a very reasonable cost. If you wanted Trofeo toes I doubt you would have issues, because the Black Diamond Helio 350 has a Raider heel with a Trofeo toe and it seems to work fine, and that bindings has an advertised 12 release value. Another option would be to get a Trab toe which also shares the exact same mount pattern, and has a very light ~10 gram proprietary toe shim to reduce ramp.

[whatsupdoc]

I'm pretty sure Tgapp as well as some others have used B&D toe shims with the older front brake toes. You could also get Spyderjon to make custom shims that will cover the footprint properly for a very reasonable cost. If you wanted Trofeo toes I doubt you would have issues, because the Black Diamond Helio 350 has a Raider heel with a Trofeo toe and it seems to work fine, and that bindings has an advertised 12 release value. Another option would be to get a Trab toe which also shares the exact same mount pattern, and has a very light ~10 gram proprietary toe shim to reduce ramp.

Thanks that's helpful, some good ideas there

[Lord Thomas]

Looking for a set of touring clamps to put on my soon to be HL C132's and got a few questions. How much does a set of raider 12's weigh without a brake? And, can you still run a freeride spacer with the brake removed? Is there a freeride spacer for the Kuluar 12 other than the universal? Place to get trab toes for cheap?

[Benneke10]

Looking for a set of touring clamps to put on my soon to be HL C132's and got a few questions. How much does a set of raider 12's weigh without a brake? And, can you still run a freeride spacer with the brake removed? Is there a freeride spacer for the Kuluar 12 other than the universal? Place to get trab toes for cheap?

ATK brakes weigh about 50g so R12's without brakes weigh about 300g. You can run the AL09 freeride spacer without a brake no problem, but you may want to get the "Brake Seat Cover" to prevent snow buildup underneath the spacer.

The only ATK freeride spacers are the AL09 which is only compatible with the Raider series, and the universal spacer. So the only spacer you can use with the Kuluar is the Universal.

Trab toes for cheap.... good luck.

[jacob_dbu]

Does anyone know the difference between the toe adjustment plates R16A, R013, and R08A?

I want a toe adjustment plate for two reasons. One, I want to play with the mount point on a ski. Seems ideal for this, and as long as I'm using a Raider mounted to my BSL I should have ~ +/- 15mm so the +/- 13.5mm on the plates should be fine. Two, I want to use it as a shim to reduce stack height.

Questions are:
1. Which one do I get for the Raider Evo? Looks like the R16A. Does it work with a Crest 10? Looks like answer is yes.

2. Does the ATK jig have the mount holes for the plate? No idea?

3. What is the stack height for the plates? Can I use normal BF machines screws? Looks like screws are included and stack heigh is 4mm.

[Benneke10]

The R013 and R08A only work with the smaller mount skimo toes with a 30x27mm pattern. The R16A works with the larger mount freeride toes and the smaller skimo toes.

[rick woodson]

Anybody else having issues with the springless raider toes? Mine don't seem to have all that much clamping force in ski mode which has led to a couple prereleases and a weird "click" that happens when I put lateral force on the bindings (mostly in hard snow). I think the noise is the jaws partially opening but not releasing and then snapping back shut, but i'm not 100% on that.

Running a Hawx with about 30 days on em so it's probably not worn inserts. I'm a lightweight and have the lateral release at 10 (alpine binders at 8 w/ no issues), so I don't think too low of a release value is letting the heel pivot excessively. Always keep skis on to rip skins so probably not insert icing. Anybody have any insight as to what might be going on/possible solutions? Would adding a freeride spacer help by giving the boot more support, leading to less force going directly into the toes?

[twoturn]

I second that.
I am stoked with how light the FR16s are. My buddy has a couple of pairs of FR12s. He is 185lbs and I am 210lbs. We both don‘t hold back often in the Hills and feel confident in the hold and burliness of these bindings and at only around 350g, worth the extra bit of weight to drive bigger sticks. I have a pair of 16s on 104mm waist and 115mm waist skis.