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  1. #101
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
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    5
    Trying to decide whether to wait for the new c-raider 12 or grab an FR14. Any opinion on these two?

    I wonder whether the carbon base plate would help reduce vibrations on hard snow vs all-aluminum?

    Anyone have experience with the FR14? I assume the toe piece lateral release is stiffer than the new 12 binding. Anyone find it too stiff to safely release? Iím 200lbs 6í.

    Also is the toe piece spring design similar to the Raider (4springs) but fully enclosed ?

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Sun Valley, ID
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    1,848
    Quote Originally Posted by KM14 View Post
    Trying to decide whether to wait for the new c-raider 12 or grab an FR14. Any opinion on these two?

    I wonder whether the carbon base plate would help reduce vibrations on hard snow vs all-aluminum?

    Anyone have experience with the FR14? I assume the toe piece lateral release is stiffer than the new 12 binding. Anyone find it too stiff to safely release? Iím 200lbs 6í.

    Also is the toe piece spring design similar to the Raider (4springs) but fully enclosed ?
    Just seems you get a plastic toe plate vs metal.

    Up to you. I think the actual toe design is identical. The FR14 and R12 donít have regular springs.

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Sweden
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    10
    Quote Originally Posted by KM14 View Post
    Trying to decide whether to wait for the new c-raider 12 or grab an FR14. Any opinion on these two?

    I wonder whether the carbon base plate would help reduce vibrations on hard snow vs all-aluminum?

    Anyone have experience with the FR14? I assume the toe piece lateral release is stiffer than the new 12 binding. Anyone find it too stiff to safely release? I’m 200lbs 6’.

    Also is the toe piece spring design similar to the Raider (4springs) but fully enclosed ?
    Mounted my FR14's last week and got about 5 mellow tours in so far (still allowed here in Sweden). Loving how they perform on the up coming from Ions and Shifts most recently. The all metal toe-piece feels bomber and oozes of quality in my opinion.
    Unsure if the carbon infused plastic will help in reducing vibrations, dont think it will be a big noticable difference actually. I really like the fr14 and will probably get another pair next season if nothing happens with them during spring so highly recommended!

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    417
    Would one of you ATK binding experts mind schooling me on the BD Helio equivalents? I was thinking about getting a pair of Helio 110s for someone as a gift. The skier is 5’ 5” and 125lbs and looking to significantly lighten her touring setup. Thoughts? Anyone have experience with this binding in particular?

    Thanks in advance.

  5. #105
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    Nov 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGamms View Post
    Would one of you ATK binding experts mind schooling me on the BD Helio equivalents? I was thinking about getting a pair of Helio 110s for someone as a gift. The skier is 5’ 5” and 125lbs and looking to significantly lighten her touring setup. Thoughts? Anyone have experience with this binding in particular?

    Thanks in advance.
    the 110 is the world cup iirc, it's more a race binding than a touring binding (I have a friend who races a lot and has broken one, which is pretty rare for ATKs). the 145 is the way to go for touring imo.

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    417
    Thanks MW!! Care to expand at all? Is the main concern that the 110 is just less durable than the 145? She doesn’t need anything higher than a RV of 8, so that part is a non-issue.

    Also, does the 110 even have an option for ski crampons?

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
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    3,904
    Quote Originally Posted by DGamms View Post
    Would one of you ATK binding experts mind schooling me on the BD Helio equivalents? I was thinking about getting a pair of Helio 110s for someone as a gift. The skier is 5í 5Ē and 125lbs and looking to significantly lighten her touring setup. Thoughts? Anyone have experience with this binding in particular?

    Thanks in advance.
    See the chart I put up in post #1.

    The answer depends on whether she wants to be able to adjust the lateral release value.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  8. #108
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    Nov 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGamms View Post
    Thanks MW!! Care to expand at all? Is the main concern that the 110 is just less durable than the 145? She doesnít need anything higher than a RV of 8, so that part is a non-issue.

    Also, does the 110 even have an option for ski crampons?
    that is my understanding, weight and subsequently durability. you can get the 145 in a 6, 8 or 10 cheap on t-p fwiw

  9. #109
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    Feb 2013
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    FYI BD Helio 180's (aka ATK Trofeo Plus) are $287 on backcountry.com...basically the same price as T-P

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dshack89 View Post
    FYI BD Helio 180's (aka ATK Trofeo Plus) are $287 on backcountry.com...basically the same price as T-P
    jfc that is cheap

  11. #111
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Boulder
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    1,124
    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    I will just say I am ecstatic with my ATK Trofeo Plus. Everything just works, super dialed. Heel flap can be lifted with the handle on my ski pole during transitions. The rotation to/from flat mode is not too difficult when it's very cold (ahem Plum).
    Anybody have a direct comparison with the BD branded version in regard to heel rotation effort? I know they're the same binding, but this is the primary complaint I'm seeing with the Helio 180. Same priced shipped right now for either version.

  12. #112
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    1,412
    C-Raider 12 intriguing
    single? always know what to say with Keys
    www.thekeysapp.com

  13. #113
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    Aug 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    C-Raider 12 intriguing
    Yup. But I want to see some other people beat the shit out of that front Carbon base plate before I buy a pair. So for 2022 perhaps?
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  14. #114
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    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    C-Raider 12 intriguing
    Where are you seeing this version? [edit]Never mind ... I found this video ...[edit/]



    Quote Originally Posted by North View Post
    Anybody have a direct comparison with the BD branded version in regard to heel rotation effort? I know they're the same binding, but this is the primary complaint I'm seeing with the Helio 180. Same priced shipped right now for either version.
    I can't believe they're any different apart from the anodized color. At the same price, why not just go with BD for the added warranty support and not look back?

    Regarding spinning them, I've been musing about making a simple tool - a combined binding spinner and skin scraper. I set my Helio 200s to about 7.5 lateral and it's a bit of a challenge to rotate them.

    My idea is a simple, piece of 1/8" x 2.0" aluminum stock, bent into an "L" shape with the short side being about 5/8" long. Drill two holes that mate with the pins and voila! The long side (say 3" and used for leverage) can be used to de-glop skins. Maybe drill a hole at the end of the long side to run some 2mm cord through.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  15. #115
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    Nov 2014
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    Official ATK Binding Thread

    fwiw the 180s donít have adjustable anything release and theyíre fine to rotate (I run the ď10Ē RV so theoretically the stiffest offering for that particular model). maybe itís just my pair but if you think those rotate tough you havenít skied a plum. and Iím 5í10Ē / 145lbs so not exactly a big muscle man.

    no clue on the adjustable lateral RV ones though.

  16. #116
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    Mar 2008
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    Ya price + warranty support was too good to pass up. Sounds like a non-issue anyway.

  17. #117
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Norway
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    245
    I'm probably a moron, but is there any difference between the R12 and the Raider 12 2.0 (and the R14 - Freeraider 14 2.0) other than the rear/front brakes? Can you use the freeride spacer with the rear brakes? Any other differences? Their naming scheme doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

  18. #118
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    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrgha View Post
    I'm probably a moron, but is there any difference between the R12 and the Raider 12 2.0 (and the R14 - Freeraider 14 2.0) other than the rear/front brakes? Can you use the freeride spacer with the rear brakes? Any other differences? Their naming scheme doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
    This year's Raider/Freeraider have the brake at the toe. The R12/FR14 have it at the rear. Different toe piece design between the siblings, and I believe the Freeride spacers are different as well - to accommodate the different heel pieces.

    Follow the link to the ATK site in post #1.

    The chart in that post will likely help you suss out the naming schenes - at least a bit.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  19. #119
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Norway
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    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    This year's Raider/Freeraider have the brake at the toe. The R12/FR14 have it at the rear. Different toe piece design between the siblings, and I believe the Freeride spacers are different as well - to accommodate the different heel pieces.

    Follow the link to the ATK site in post #1.

    The chart in that post will likely help you suss out the naming schenes - at least a bit.

    ... Thom
    Thank you. It's still not clear to me why you would pick one over the other. Do they have any advantages/disadvantages over each other?

  20. #120
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    870
    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Where are you seeing this version? [edit]Never mind ... I found this video ...[edit/]
    Post #2 in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrgha View Post
    I'm probably a moron, but is there any difference between the R12 and the Raider 12 2.0 (and the R14 - Freeraider 14 2.0) other than the rear/front brakes? Can you use the freeride spacer with the rear brakes? Any other differences? Their naming scheme doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
    The main functional difference is that the Raider 12/14 2.0s have brakes that are always active -> you step out, they engange, vs R12/14s that are either fully locked or active. The toes are also different, where the R12/14 toes can be adjusted wrt clamping force. The Freeride spacers are also completely different between the two designs. On R12/14s the spacer is placed around the brake stomp pad and mounted as a part of the binding. On FR12/14s the Freeride Spacers is bolted on the bindng after it has been mounted, then adjusted for height.

    So the choice really boils down to if you want fully active brakes at all times or not, then which you can get cheaper. I doubt there is much of a difference in ride feel - the heel tower is the same between the two designs (I think). I have not used them back to back.

  21. #121
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    245
    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    Post #2 in this thread.



    The main functional difference is that the Raider 12/14 2.0s have brakes that are always active -> you step out, they engange, vs R12/14s that are either fully locked or active. The toes are also different, where the R12/14 toes can be adjusted wrt clamping force. The Freeride spacers are also completely different between the two designs. On R12/14s the spacer is placed around the brake stomp pad and mounted as a part of the binding. On FR12/14s the Freeride Spacers is bolted on the bindng after it has been mounted, then adjusted for height.

    So the choice really boils down to if you want fully active brakes at all times or not, then which you can get cheaper. I doubt there is much of a difference in ride feel - the heel tower is the same between the two designs (I think). I have not used them back to back.
    Great info, thank you! I've never tried ATK, but I'm very intrigued and will probably get a pair the next time I'm in the marked. How are brake sizes? True to size or oversized? (I'm looking at you, Fritschi...)

  22. #122
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    870
    Pretty much true to size They are at least more true to size than either Fritschi or Salomon/Atomics.

  23. #123
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    whitefish
    Posts
    1,023
    Question for those with ATK usage. Any lateral slop developing in the heel at all? My wife and I have used Salomon/atomic MTN/Backlands for the last 3 seasons and really like the binding, however the heels are all developing lateral slop, which I think is coming from the heel track for length adjustment. I'm thinking that the ATK bindings that have two length tracks (trofeo plus, haute route, that wouldn't be as vulnerable to this problem?

  24. #124
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Bottom feeding
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevino View Post
    Question for those with ATK usage. Any lateral slop developing in the heel at all? My wife and I have used Salomon/atomic MTN/Backlands for the last 3 seasons and really like the binding, however the heels are all developing lateral slop, which I think is coming from the heel track for length adjustment. I'm thinking that the ATK bindings that have two length tracks (trofeo plus, haute route, that wouldn't be as vulnerable to this problem?
    Zero slop between Mrs. Plug and I. Ha.
    4th season on Raider 12 2.0
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  25. #125
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    SLC
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    632
    Would be curious to get feedback on my gameplan for the BD Helio 180s / ATK Trofeo Plus that just showed up at my door:

    Setup #1 (lightweight spring ski, I will only use with a 310 BSL boot)
    -Toes with quiver killers
    -Heel with QK (no adjustment track, just the heel to save a few grams)

    Setup #2 (powder ski, I may use a 310 or 327 bsl boot based on day)
    -Toes with quiver killers
    -Mount heel track with traditional mount (would just attach heel onto track, might later QK if needed)

    My powder boards may not come back out this season, so my most pressing question is whether it's ok to mount the heel piece without the track. My guess is this is the same as the standard BD 145 / ATK trofeo. Looks like the screws will stick out about 0.5 mm longer than when going thru the adjustment track, but dont think that will matter.

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