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  1. #51
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    I added the FR 14's delta to the first post (11mm - as reported by @CalBrit).

    I also added the Haute Route (8mm with adjustment plate which is 5mm tall). My numbers differ slightly from skimo's and I trust my numbers. I think they offloaded this task to a rookie ;-)

    When I measure the delta, it's the height from the center of the pins to the top sheet, with the boot clicked into the toepiece, 'coz this shifts the height of the toe pins slightly.

    ... Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 03-18-2020 at 03:22 PM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sun Valley, ID
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    1,848
    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    I added the FR 14's delta to the first post (11mm - as reported by @CalBrit, measured with boot clicked into binding).

    I also added the Haute Route (8mm with adjustment plate which is 5mm tall). My numbers differ slightly from skimo's and I trust my numbers. I think they offloaded this task to a rookie ;-)

    When I measure the delta, it's the height from the center of the pins to the top sheet, with the boot clicked into the toepiece, 'coz this shifts the height of the toe pins slightly.

    ... Thom
    FYI I measured to the tip of the toe pin with the toe engaged, obviously no boot in. Could be a little different I guess.

  3. #53
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    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    FYI I measured to the tip of the toe pin with the toe engaged, obviously no boot in. Could be a little different I guess.
    Thanks. I just checked my RT 10s. Closed height is 32.5. Closed with boot inserted is 30.5. So, a couple mm difference. Venturing into princess & the pea land

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  4. #54
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    Dec 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Thanks. I just checked my RT 10s. Closed height is 32.5. Closed with boot inserted is 30.5. So, a couple mm difference. Venturing into princess & the pea land

    ... Thom
    Haha, and are you measuring that to the center of the toe pin at the arm binding arm?

    As I'm measuring to the tip of the pin, and if it is at an angle that would again change things.

    I guess you really want to measure to the top of the heel pin, and the top of to toe pin right where they each engage the boot with the boot in.

    My FR14's are not mounted yet so don't have that option.

  5. #55
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    Dec 2014
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    With the boot engaged, the toe pins are close to horizontal, so I'm measuring at the center of the outside of the pin - the part visible when clicked into the binding.

    I wonder if this is why skimo's numbers differ from mine - that they just pulled bindings out of the box to measure this?

    We're getting deep here (even for me). If my knee would get better, I wouldn't have as much idle time on my hands ;-)

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  6. #56
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    Dec 2009
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    Sun Valley, ID
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    Good to know, and could very well be why numbers vary a bit, not everyone is so obsessive.

    My knee is strained too, doesn't matter as being house bound with a 2.5 year old and 9 month old doesn't leave a tonne of time free........

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Tahoe
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    836
    I've got 2 days now on the Hagen Core 12 (Raider 12 2.0). Damnit ATK's naming of the bindings is confusing.

    I've only skied them in pow so I can't comment too much on skiing capability. I imagine they will ski like most other tech bindings. I did install the free ride spacer. Curious as to how much of a difference that will make. I did mount them on pow skis (Bibby Tours) so not entirely sure the free ride spacer was necessary. It's easy to take on/off. I like the concept. It does make the 'flat' touring position not completely flat which is a small negative. We'll see if I keep the spacer installed.

    Mounting was pretty straightforward with the paper templates. I did a test mount to make sure everything lined up well beforehand. The mount turned out fine. I do remember the templates didn't put the heel piece at the exact middle of the adjustment range. I think it was a few mm back of the middle when installed per the template. I moved it a few mm to compensate. I'd recommend a test mount beforehand just to make sure things line up how you want.

    I like how they tour. Brakes lock down easily and securely. No issues so far here. The heel risers are easy to operate. Construction seems bomber.

    Liking them so far. Time will tell.

  8. #58
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    Dec 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatsupdoc View Post
    I've got 2 days now on the Hagen Core 12 (Raider 12 2.0). Damnit ATK's naming of the bindings is confusing.

    I've only skied them in pow so I can't comment too much on skiing capability. I imagine they will ski like most other tech bindings. I did install the free ride spacer. Curious as to how much of a difference that will make. I did mount them on pow skis (Bibby Tours) so not entirely sure the free ride spacer was necessary. It's easy to take on/off. I like the concept. It does make the 'flat' touring position not completely flat which is a small negative. We'll see if I keep the spacer installed.

    Mounting was pretty straightforward with the paper templates. I did a test mount to make sure everything lined up well beforehand. The mount turned out fine. I do remember the templates didn't put the heel piece at the exact middle of the adjustment range. I think it was a few mm back of the middle when installed per the template. I moved it a few mm to compensate. I'd recommend a test mount beforehand just to make sure things line up how you want.

    I like how they tour. Brakes lock down easily and securely. No issues so far here. The heel risers are easy to operate. Construction seems bomber.

    Liking them so far. Time will tell.
    Ski one with the freeride spacer and one without and let us know!

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Tahoe
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    836
    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Ski one with the freeride spacer and one without and let us know!
    Good call. Too bad resorts aren't open otherwise I'd take them for a few groomer laps to check out how they ski firm snow +/- the spacer. I doubt I'd take the 116 underfoot Bibbys out if I was expecting form snow. Maybe next season...

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    whistler
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickel View Post
    Does the spring tension in the toe piece change between the r12 and fr14?
    Afaict no one has yet answered this?

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickel View Post
    Afaict no one has yet answered this?
    I donít think anyone knows. Why donít you email them? Iíd guess itís the same.

  12. #62
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    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatsupdoc View Post
    ... Mounting was pretty straightforward with the paper templates. I did a test mount to make sure everything lined up well beforehand. The mount turned out fine. I do remember the templates didn't put the heel piece at the exact middle of the adjustment range. I think it was a few mm back of the middle when installed per the template. I moved it a few mm to compensate. I'd recommend a test mount beforehand just to make sure things line up how you want.
    Just finished an RT 10 mount. The closest template I could find was a combination of the Haute Route toe and Crest heel.

    I had to adjust the longitudinal hole spacing for the toes by .010, and had to make minor hole spacing adjustments to the Crest heel (.25mm) as well as shifting the heel line to land the heel piece in the middle of the adjustment track.

    I always seem to end up making minor tweaks to published templates, so Crest may indeed be identical to RT 10 (no RT 10 template on their site).

    So yeah ... test mount.

    ... Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 03-26-2020 at 03:39 PM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  13. #63
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    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sun Valley, ID
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    BD helio crampons one sale along with all BD bindings. But a good chance to grab crampons for other ATK bindings for just under $60.

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    tahoe de chingao
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    Is the elasticity in the heel in the rt10 noticeable? Compared to like a plum guide or tlt? Iíve really enjoyed the downhill feel of dyna rotations, pretty sure the toe on those has more impact than the heel


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  15. #65
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    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by sruffian View Post
    Is the elasticity in the heel in the rt10 noticeable? Compared to like a plum guide or tlt? Iíve really enjoyed the downhill feel of dyna rotations, pretty sure the toe on those has more impact than the heel


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    With a gimpy knee I'm shut down at the moment, so my freshly mounted RT10s are taunting me.

    For comparison sake, when I pulled my Vipecs (spring loaded) off my GPOs and mounted Helio 200s (no spring loading), I didn't notice any degradation, but this was on a soft snow ski.

    ... Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 03-23-2020 at 04:00 AM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    870
    Remember reading this on insta a while back, so while not earth shattering news thought I should share. indultidavide is Davide aka the guy from ATK who does such a brilliant job of presenting ATK's bindings in the Freeride.com videos.

    Quote Originally Posted by kundalini_skiing
    Another dream setup. The Navis FB paired with the FR14. We hope ATK will lower the price for the Freeride Spacer for next season, so we can offer the R12 with the optional Spacer for the same price as the FR14. What do you think @indultidavide ?
    Quote Originally Posted by indultidavide
    Hello Guys next year freeride spacer's price will be lowered by a bunch of euros. The price of the R12+Spacers will then be on the same range of the FR14 one. Make your own choice
    I would have gotten 12s over 14s if the Freeride spacer was included, but went with 14s since they ended up being cheaper and also being less of a (admittedly limited) hassle.

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    16
    The ATK Crest, FR, and RT heel pieces all look almost identical to the Route (BD Helio 200). Does anyone know if the heel pieces on the ATK Crest can be mounted on the 30mm adjustment plates that come with the BD Helio 200 rather than the plastic base plate the Crest comes with?

    It would have to have the four screw holes in it and a flat base to fit on the plate. Looks like it may be setup on the bottom for the worm drive adjustment? Even if you just have a picture of the Crest heel piece removed from the plastic mounting plate it would be super helpful. Especially of the underside and the track securing tabs.

    I know, weird question, but I have my reasons for asking.

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    The Fish
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    3,389
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunks_Jesse View Post
    The ATK Crest, FR, and RT heel pieces all look almost identical to the Route (BD Helio 200). Does anyone know if the heel pieces on the ATK Crest can be mounted on the 30mm adjustment plates that come with the BD Helio 200 rather than the plastic base plate the Crest comes with?

    It would have to have the four screw holes in it and a flat base to fit on the plate. Looks like it may be setup on the bottom for the worm drive adjustment? Even if you just have a picture of the Crest heel piece removed from the plastic mounting plate it would be super helpful. Especially of the underside and the track securing tabs.

    I know, weird question, but I have my reasons for asking.
    no they can not, adjustment and connection is different.
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    1
    Why do the hagan bindings benefit so much from the freeride spacer?
    Is it something missing from the hagan bindings? If not, does that mean the spacer could be thrown on any minimal tech binding like the marker alpinist to improve their power transfer?

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bottom feeding
    Posts
    8,414
    Quote Originally Posted by ChainDriveStrider View Post
    the spacer could be thrown on any minimal tech binding like the marker alpinist to improve it
    Pretty much.
    Search this thread. Not ďtheĒ spacer, but ďaĒ spacer. Meaning, the distance isnít the same on all the bindings but youíre basically trying to take up that space below the pins so that you have sort of a stomp pad. The cool spacers have an AFD slider.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChainDriveStrider View Post
    Why do the hagan bindings benefit so much from the freeride spacer?
    Is it something missing from the hagan bindings? If not, does that mean the spacer could be thrown on any minimal tech binding like the marker alpinist to improve their power transfer?
    I'm guessing that by now, you know that Hagan and BD Helio = ATK.

    Whether they benefit from the stomp pads or not is something I can't speak to, but I have trouble believing they're worse than any pin binding where the heel is supported by the pins (is this all tech heels or just the vast majority?).

    The ATK implementation is very robust, and I recall reading comments about some tech heel units tilting a bit about the support pillar axis. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    BTW, the ATK spacer is height adjustable.

    ... Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 03-26-2020 at 05:35 PM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunks_Jesse View Post
    The ATK Crest, FR, and RT heel pieces all look almost identical to the Route (BD Helio 200). Does anyone know if the heel pieces on the ATK Crest can be mounted on the 30mm adjustment plates that come with the BD Helio 200 rather than the plastic base plate the Crest comes with?

    It would have to have the four screw holes in it and a flat base to fit on the plate. Looks like it may be setup on the bottom for the worm drive adjustment? Even if you just have a picture of the Crest heel piece removed from the plastic mounting plate it would be super helpful. Especially of the underside and the track securing tabs.

    I know, weird question, but I have my reasons for asking.
    The milling on the base of the heels are different. It's hard to get the contrast right in these photos, but the Haute Route has four screw holes on its base and the fixation for the RT10 appears to be how it slides into the track of the RT10's base.

    It looks as if the "dog ears" for the screw holes on the Haute Route have been milled off the RT10's base, but I'm sure there are quite a few other differences relating to the heel track, worm gear, etc.

    ... Thom (scroll down)



    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    16
    Thanks Thom! Exactly what I was looking for. Picked up a pair of Crest 10s at under 50% the price of the Helio 200! Deal.

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Colorado Front Range
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    I added ramp delta and riser height columns to first post. I also added a link to download the spreadsheet (Excel 2013). I also added two comparison rows (Fritschi Vipec Black & Plum Guide) to help reference the riser heights against a couple of common bindings.

    If you send me any data to add:

    • Measure the toe pin height with the boot clicked into the toe piece (changes the pin height slightly)
    • Measure from the top sheet to the center of the pins (account for any shims you may have on your setup)
    • For ramp measurements, measure to where the center of the heel pins would insert into the boot heel.

    Using the pins as a reference point (while not perfect) is the closest thing we have to a universally transferable measurement. Skimo.co measures this way as well, and for models they documented, I primed the spreadsheet with their numbers.

    ... Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 03-28-2020 at 05:36 PM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Breckenridge
    Posts
    605
    Is BD dropping the race binding next year?(Helio 110)

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