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  1. #101
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    Oct 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    It was clear to me, to the point I was going to say your buddies' quote was Sig worthy.

    ... Thom
    Thanks. Those guys were a lot of fun to ski with... a bit older than me, but keen to ski every weekend regardless of conditions. Several of them grew up there, so they could find decent skiing even when most of the snow was wind effected.

    Mallwalker was saying the same thing I just didn't read it that closely, didn't really need to be repeated.

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    777

    How heavy is your touring rig?

    Interesting the wide variety of preferences when it comes to the back country. Like many others, I’ve gone from weight is great, dukes and bibbys too stupid light and combinations of both. Pretty happy with the Navis/ F1 combination. It’s been three years and really not finding the need for anything new which is nice. Sure, slightly more flotation on the super deep days and slightly lighter binding would be nice, but really loving it. Solid, dependable and decent weight.
    Works out to 3786 gms per foot.
    Looking forward to the 0G 85 I Skis. Mounting them with BD Helio 145 bindings. Mohair skins and Alien RS boot. Should be 2429 gms per foot.
    The groomer zoomers are just for comparison. 985 gms per foot skis and skins without the boot. 2035 with moded tlt7 carbon and could be a lot less with a real race boot.Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #103
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    Oct 2003
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    Ogden
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    9,107
    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    words about heavier gear
    I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the move to heavier boots after some decent time in them. After some big days, different ski conditions, trade-offs, value gained lost, etc...

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,879

    How heavy is your touring rig?

    Still not super light but at least I’m heading in the right direction....

    I got some Dalbello Lupo Pro 130 HD boots (2,000gm per boot) with pins for use with Shifts. Previously had Dalbello Lupo 120 with regular soles for my Dukes.

    Past:
    ——-
    Went from last year’s sidecountry rig of:

    181cm Icelantic Nomad 105s (~2,312g/ski) + Marker Dukes (~2,760g total / 2 = 1,380gm per) = 2,312g ski + 1,380g binding + 2,000g boot = 5,692g per leg, or 12.6lbs per leg last year. But doable for very short sidecountry jaunts.

    Now:
    ——-
    to....this year’s set-up:

    180cm Blizzard Rustler 11s (~2,000g/ski) with Shifts (~1,730g total / 2 = 865gm per).
    = 2,000g ski + 865g binding + 2,000g boot = ~4,865g per leg, or 10.7lbs this year, a 23% weight decrease. Sticker weight is negligible.

    Based on what/where we ski...eg dropping kid at ski school and maybe doing a BC lap midday, the 180cm Rustler 11s + Shift combo with the 130 Lupo boots is a skiable set-up inbounds in pretty much any conditions that I’ll see at Baker or Whistler if I decide not to go OB after I’m on the hill. btw I’m 5’7”, 165 lbs, ski 60 days a year at Whistler and Baker with an additional 10 day powder highway trip each year.

    Most/all of my hiking is really short sidecountry stuff out of the resort to get freshies. Never timed myself on vertical. Don’t care. And it reminds me too much of the psycho Strava junkies I mtn bike with who spend more time looking at their Strava results after a mtn bike ride and then comparing their times on “up segments” than the total amount of time we spent riding). F off. It’s called downhill skiing...not walking up a hill. It’s 90% about the down. My mountain bike is a Knolly Fugitive 29’er....it’s heavy, I’m slow up but I’m a better rider down cause of that bike (I’m still not that good down)....which is the reason I went up?

    Some people are more focussed on the up. That’s fine too. I’m reminded of a time at Baker this doofus passed me on super light gear on a nasty part of the skin trail. Cause I was too slow. No worries. I let him by, even though it was sketch. He scurries by, all huffy and proud of himself. Then I get to the top just as he was heading down. He could barely fucking ski pow. Moron IMO.

    Future:
    ———
    Just bought some 2020 184cm 4FRNT Wolf Renegades....~1,990gm per ski? Likely may Shift them too.

    I would also like to get some 4FRNT Ravens and either add Shifts or Tectons. If I had Rens + Ravens could sell the R11s.

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    Last edited by kc_7777; 04-06-2020 at 10:37 AM.
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  5. #105
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    Nov 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the move to heavier boots after some decent time in them. After some big days, different ski conditions, trade-offs, value gained lost, etc...
    yeah, I am curious too tbh. going for 10k hopefully this weekend so we'll see how that goes. the extra fiddling is real annoying so far, but they ski great and walk so much better than boots in this class when I last used them (circa white mastrale RS, tecnica cochise 120, etc), they don't give up too much on the up to my Travers at least judging by the time it takes me. but I need a loooot more time on them to really compare...

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
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    118
    Quote Originally Posted by kc_7777 View Post
    Still not super light but I’m heading in the right direction....
    Woah, that's still a 9kg plus setup. And if you're on 180s you're probably no big unit. It's amazing to see the diversity of gear people are using; from the skimo minimalist stuff to the sidecountry beef gear.

    I guess the big intangibles in all this are: 1. what style of descent, and 2. how much do they actually get done when it comes to nailing vert.

    R11 is a sweet as ski (just toured with mine today) - it's on the heavier side, but it crushes whilst still being pretty forgiving of mistakes.

    I've got inserts for Shifts and Tectons. Pretty much never tour on Shifts anymore. I'm not rad enough to need anything more than the Tecton, which is easier to use and lighter than the Shift.

    Also got a pair of Dalbellos (Lupo Factory) that I dont know if I'll ever use much. ZGTP is plenty of boot for me, and again at a nice weight.

  7. #107
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    Nov 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecazdog View Post
    I guess the big intangibles in all this are: 1. what style of descent, and 2. how much do they actually get done when it comes to nailing vert.
    Also how many days in the season do you get out, what type of terrain, what type of access (gate? car shuttle? hike from the trailhead?), what climbing pace (what vert/hr under a roughly ordinary grade skinner (what do you consider an ordinary grade skinner)), how much vertical will you typically do in a day/week, how many days a week or in a row will you typically do, how many days inbounds (eg are you a 90% resort skier frustrated by even a tecton, or are you a 90% bc skier and use your pin bindings on the handful of resort days you have with your kids), and so on. There are so many variables. There's maybe no wrong way to select a touring setup, but all the context is nice for others here to have I think. And this is not to mention height/weight/experience/ability and so on. I've been trying to get 4k'+ a morning in dawn patrols this season, with 4 mornings a week during the weekdays. If I'm on day 4 (or 5 if I get that far) and already 16k' deep on the week before I start that morning, I'm way more likely to reach for the lightest skis I own (177cm, 89mm, 1400g including bindings), and I'm glad as fuck that I still own them. For some people that 16k' is their 6 hour Monday, and they go right back out the next day. For some people that's half their season vertical.

    I guess I just take everything with a grain of salt lol. Even among the like minded mags I tour with here in the central Wasatch in UT with the same snowpack in the same terrain at the same early-as-fuck time of day there are wide spreads in what is or is not acceptable gear... so much personal variance. And no matter how fast or slow you are, if you're in a group all going the same speed but it's a different speed than you (assuming similar fitness levels), you're not geared up right.

    The variance in style/gear/etc is genuinely one of the most fun things about the sport imo, but it does make some of the really short comments here not so useful without the broader context. When I hear advice from people I've toured with, their advice goes a looooong way, because I can interpret them with all this extra information. When Boissal told me he didn't need to use the high heel riser with his ZGTPs, even though the bastard was sandbagging me as usual, that was enough for me to understand how that boot walks, cuz we've toured together enough for me to know that. I bought them sight unseen and I'm glad I did. When he tells me a ski is short though, and I know he rips hard at all times and I am comparatively very pokey and like my wiggles, I think "alright, well I can still size down for this ski." Same with a bunch of other mags (and other people) I ski with, that just happens to be the most recent purchase decision I made. When one of the folks from the local skimo group tells me a ski is heavy, I think "this might be about right." When my friend in CO who is 6'2" 220lbs says "this boot walks well," well he thought the white Maestrale walked well, and I thought the walk mode may as well have been a sticker. People I read posts from here and get to know by their posting, that goes quite a ways too... I think some of the tech talk regulars maybe I can interpret what they mean. But a random poster / guy in the shop / etc saying "these skis are great" or "this is too light/heavy" or whatnot is just one data point missing all the vital context.

    Sorry for the ramble, stuck at home can't sleep even though in 6 hours getting up to ski pow, and feel like rambling about something besides the stupid plague.

    (e: I did say give the details and then not give them so, I know for myself, I'm 5'10" 150lbs soaking wet, 37 years old, skiing 34 of them, touring for the last 10. Last season was 129:2 touring:resort days with 415k' climbed, slightly behind that pace this season, though vert/day is higher. 80%+ of my days are weekday dawn patrols, and I ski alone more than I should. Most of my touring partners are from here. At a conversational pace I average roughly 1500'/hr on the up, up to maybe 2k'/hr if it's a switchback ladder or I'm in a hurry. I'd say I'm a competent technical skier but certainly not aggressive by TGR standards. other mags can say better how I ski lol)
    Last edited by mall walker; 03-19-2020 at 10:26 PM. Reason: clarity

  8. #108
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    Jul 2016
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    Mostly the Elks, mostly.
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    A+ post, MW

  9. #109
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    Jan 2007
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    THOR-Foothills
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    I picked up a pair of 194 XXLs that were drilled for Dukes. If that’s not the heaviest touring rig out there, I don’t know what is.


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    ...sooner or later you'll dance with the reaper
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    The other morning I was awoken to "Daddy, my fart fell on the floor"
    Kaz is my co-pilot

  10. #110
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    Dec 2007
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    Hell Track
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caucasian Asian View Post
    I picked up a pair of 194 XXLs that were drilled for Dukes. If that’s not the heaviest touring rig out there, I don’t know what is.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I spent a season touring on some fritschi freerides mounted to volante fat bastards, with krypton pros. Fucking heavy, but I'm pretty sure you have me beat.

    Current setup is about 3900g / foot on my scale. Deathwish tour, sally mtn binder, zero g boot, glidelite skins.

  11. #111
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    30,881
    I got Cochise with Barons but I've only ever unlocked them once, iots not the setup but it was used & cheap still a good setup for when the pow is all gone

    my early season ski is a JJ with FR+ and a specila base prep ;

    I have 7 skis that can tour
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  12. #112
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Swiss alps -> Bozone,MT
    Posts
    671
    I dont think I can beat the XXL with dukes but I come close: I have a 186 Blizzard bodacious with Jester's and CAST 1.0. Touring with Lange ZA plug boots in them..... for really short distances only!

    I did tour a few seasons on 185 blizzard cochise's with beast14's and blizzard gunsmoke with beast 16's. It al comes down to what you are used to... as long as you dont switch to a lighter setup it is fine. Now i would never go back to either of those

  13. #113
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    205
    ON3P Billy goat 189 w Kingpins & Fischer Ranger Fee 130's. Good compromise on weight for full shredability

    ~3180g/ski plus skins & 1590g/boot

  14. #114
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    No longer somewhere in Idaho
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    1,990

    How heavy is your touring rig?

    I’ll take a shot at Mall Walker level of detail...
    I do about 100/8 touring/resort days a year.
    I’m in central Washington, and most of the tours I do involve a decent approach so 4-6k is my usual. Probably at least 70% off a snowmo in early and mid winter.
    Maritime snow, always hoping for steeper terrain and summits. I also try for a handful of overnight tours or 3-6 day traverses a year.
    1500k an hour, 1k/hr breaking trail, prefer lower angle skinner with longer strides.
    7 years now on TLT6, with double tongues and power wraps. 1200g.
    5’11”, 180, 37yrs old, patrolled for 8 years, skiing for 17.

    Setups, heavy to light:

    188 Lithic Cohens 118, cast1.0, lupo factory.
    No idea on the weight, only used for resort days.

    187 UL GPO/veneer, MTN’s.
    Deep days, or early season sacrificial lamb. Bases are getting tired but damn i love this ski. 2100g with mtn.

    180 Lithic Ramblin Jack108/veneer.
    All around mid winter, 1900g with MTN. Killer for my purposes. Just upgraded to pomoca skins, which makes them the same weight going uphill as:

    175 Lithic Joplin98/veneer
    projects, longer days with less snow, 1850g with MTN.

    177 Down Lowdown 90
    Just got these from Mall Walker, stoked to try a truly light rig that can still handle occasional maritime.
    For bigger tours, traverses etc.
    1550g with mtns.


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    Gravity always wins...

  15. #115
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    118
    I'll play too.

    Used to tour more than resort, now a 50/50 skier, was moving into ski instructing, now who knows. Will be touring for the next year it seems. Started out out skimo race gear, and have been moving up the weight range since then.

    Ski year round - Japan, Australia, Canada, NZ. Look for about 2km vert a day, with some multiday in there too.

    Winter setups
    - ZGTP, Tecton and Rustler 11 for 8.35kg. Feels like a great compromise between up and down (for me).
    - ZGTP, ATK FR14 and Wildcat Tour 108 for 7.09kg. Lighter but still plenty capable in soft snow.
    - other stuff - toured Atris/ZGTP/Shift last season, and that was definitely too heavy (8.64kg). Might give the Mindbender 99s a go as a descent-focused 50/50 ski (just a tad lighter than the R11).

    Spring setups
    - Wildcat Tour 108 (as above)
    - ZGTP, Tecton, ZG108 - same weight as WCT108, but has a bit of an edge in terms of firm snow performance
    - Alien RS, ATK FR14, Backland UL 85 for 5.08kg. Great light setup for big days chasing corn.
    - Alien RS, race binding, Salomon Minim for 3.74kg. More for crazy long days or overly ambitious traverses. Also an ego deflater for when I think I can ski well.
    - other stuff - thinking of picking up a pair of Camox Freebirds - rave reviews from what I've heard. May also experiment with Wildcat Tours and Aliens

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    CA
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    2,904
    I used to just roll with a 106-underfoot ski with a midweight touring binding. Think 190 Praxis Backcountry with Kingpins. That worked well in 90% of conditions. Shoot, before that I had a pair of Lhasas (112 underfoot) with Dukes I used everyday of the season. Ha.
    Before that, I had Marker Dukes on Blizzard Cochises (!!!!!!), when I was young and strong enough to lap Shasta with. Holy crap. That must have been....Dukes (1350g/PER FOOT!) and Cochise (2300g) - 3650g!!! Wow. Times have changed. I'm a bit shocked by the Rustler/Shift weight, but just goes to show how much these systems have improved in terms of weight and function in the last ten years.
    First touring rig was Volkl G4 Vertigos with Fritschi Freerides. Had a few years of telemark skiing in there too.

    6', 190#, 40yo, based in California (Tahoe). I do believe the snow you ski makes a huge difference in preferred touring rigs. We get lots of deep, medium-density snow here. Very little blower, but lots of deep snow. And months of corn.
    Tour 25-40 days/year, resort about 35-50/year. 60-80 days/year total.
    Touring is a mix of short dawn patrol, half-day laps, 3-6 full days, (most years) a 7-9 day trip with 5-8k of touring everyday (big days in my book), and ideally a 2-5 day multi-day tour too.

    I used to be of the view that having a powerful touring binding was ideal. I'm now looking into broadening my horizons to the ultra-light bindings. Hoping to get this pair of Alpinists I have sitting here mounted up on the Helio 95s this year, and give those a run. I had bought the Alpinists to swap into the Protests (with Kingpin holes and lots of swiss cheese), but want to test them out first. (A little concerned with the nearly flat ramp angle - anyone have complaints about that? I hate the steep ramp angle of old-school Dynafits...)

    I like fatter skis, more directional, and generally stiff, but appreciate a more playful easier ski in BC conditions too.

    Current Quiver:

    188 Rustler 11s (18/19) with Shifts. 2952 grams. New to me. Travel ski, resort pow, sidecountry. SKIN: Pomoca Climb-Pro S-Glide. Yeah, these are the shit. Best I've used.
    187 Praxis Protest (14/15) with Kingpins. 2838g. Pow-touring. Love this rig. Will never ever sell the Protests, but I may swap out the KPs for Alpinists...someday...maybe...but why change what works and what you love? SKINS: BD Mohair-Mix. Great skin. Amazing how much better glide these have than Ascensions.
    189 Atomic Backland 107 (18/19) with Tectons. 2264g. Great tweener set-up. But in soft snow, I'd always rather be on the Protests...so I'll probably sell these.
    178 ZeroG 95s with Vipecs. 1928g. Big days, spring, volcanoes, multi-day. I should have gotten the 185s. They are stiff but demanding. Wanted something a little more playful, so picked up the next ski on a screaming deal (blem). SKINS: BD Mohair-Mix. Great skin.
    183 BD Helio 95s (unmounted, but most likely mounted with Alpinists. 1800g.)

    PLANS:
    Sell 178 ZeroG 95s; sell Vipecs
    Sell Backlands and Tectons
    Almost certainly sell Kingpins, and put Alpinists on Protests

    Result:
    188 Rustler 11s (18/19) with Shifts. 2952 grams. Sidecountry, travel, raging.
    187 Protests with Alpinists. ~2350 grams. Pow-touring. Every mid-winter day rig
    183 BD Helio 95s with Alpinists (or similar). 1800 grams. Big days, hard/corn, multi-day.
    ETA: Helio 95 with Alpinist - 1810g

    SKINS: I think people don't pay enough attention to these. I used Ascensions for my first few rigs. Tried a G3 skin (hated em, glue sucked). The Ascensions were extremely durable and had great grip, but they were slooooooowww. The Glidlite Mohair Mix skins way more efficiently. However, it also absorbs a fair amount of water when the snowpack is wet, so these can get heavy and water-logged. When they're not water-logged, they are amazing. Picked up the Pomoca Climb Pro S-Glides this year, and they glide just as well (better?) than the Mo-Mix, but have a backing that prevents the skin from absorbing water. So far, they have been the best all-around skin I have used.

    BOOTS:
    Head Kore 1 - ~1500 grams. Had Maestrale RS2s, first-gen RS, and others. Kore skis WAY better than the Maestrale, but walks a little worse, particularly in rearward ROM. Weight is the same.
    Looking for ~1000 gram TLT-style boot used, size 29. Holler.
    Last edited by meter-man; 04-20-2020 at 02:08 PM.
    sproing!

  17. #117
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    Nov 2014
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    With actual measurements:

    180cm Black Crows Solis w/ATK Trofeo Plus 10 - 2130g/ski
    26.5 Tecnica ZeroG Tour Pro - 1376g/foot
    Pomoca Climb Pro S-Glide skins - 256.5g/ski

    3762.5g/foot (~8.3lbs)

    177cm Movement Reponse-X w/Ski Trab Gara Titan (with plates) - 1402g/ski
    26.5 Tecnica ZeroG Tour Pro - 1376g/foot
    Colltex Pre-cut skins - 214.5g/foot

    2992.5g/foot (~6.6lbs)

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
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    Mostly the Elks, mostly.
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    with boots and skins ..

    Cease and Desist + shifts 3292g, maestrale 1490g, ascension 400g = 5182g/foot

    Pillow Fight + shifts .. 3641g, maestrale 1490g, ascension 410g = 5541g/foot

  19. #119
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    482
    183 Black Crows Corvus Freebird, Tectons, Scott Cosmos 3 27.5, and G3 Skins






    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    90% of skiing is just looking cool

  20. #120
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    Oct 2003
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    In Your Wife
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiddleOfNight View Post
    with boots and skins ..

    Cease and Desist + shifts 3292g, maestrale 1490g, ascension 400g = 5182g/foot

    Pillow Fight + shifts .. 3641g, maestrale 1490g, ascension 410g = 5541g/foot
    Holy shit, you're an animal. Strong work. Literally, in this case.

  21. #121
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    ^ lol yeah that’s impressive

  22. #122
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    Jan 2011
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    Alta
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    Toured once on some spatulas mounted with px18s. Used day wreckers and plug boots. That was crazy heavy. But fuck it was awesome to ski superior on that rig for my first superior lap ever. Makes me laugh at all the light weight gear people use just to ski superior through the Emma ridge line, like its some sort of expedition. All the ski strava dorks should list their gear weight too. I mean if you can motor up there on a heavy ass rig you’re more bad ass, right?


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  23. #123
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Tahoe
    Posts
    383
    Have a sidecountry setup that has now seen a lot of laps non-side country:

    ON3P Wrenegades + Tectons + pomoca skins + lange xt130s = right about 5kg/foot (give or take 25 grams for variation).

    Picked up a lighter setup:

    Ravens + speed radicals + pomoca tipons + lange xt130s = ~4.25kg/foot

    I'm heavy, I'm slow. Probably ~800-1000' of vert/hour. I've been taking the dogs, so there's a lot of fuckery. Only used the setups for 1-2x 1200-1500 foot laps in a day. At that limited pace, the weight savings on the ravens is nice but not world changing. Up sucks more on the wrens, not enough to feel it on the down though.

    Curious whether a boot like the Lupo Air could drive the wrens. Dalbellos tend to fit my foot very well, and cutting another pound wouldn't be all bad.

  24. #124
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by altacoup View Post
    Toured once on some spatulas mounted with px18s. Used day wreckers and plug boots. That was crazy heavy. But fuck it was awesome to ski superior on that rig for my first superior lap ever. Makes me laugh at all the light weight gear people use just to ski superior through the Emma ridge line, like its some sort of expedition. All the ski strava dorks should list their gear weight too. I mean if you can motor up there on a heavy ass rig you’re more bad ass, right?


    Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums
    either that or crazy, or cheap , or broke, or didnt know any better, or ...
    Last edited by XXX-er; 04-02-2020 at 12:26 PM.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  25. #125
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    448

    How heavy is your touring rig?

    I’ll play:

    184 Ravens with Shifts: 2670g

    G3 Alpinist skins: 300g

    Atomic hawx ultra xtd130, 27.5, with custom footbeds: 1530

    Grand total: 4500g per foot

    Pow touring: Protest 187 MAP 3 flex nylon 2220 per ski (so +445 per foot). I have some G3 momix skins for those I didn’t weight but they’re fucking heavy.

    For next year I’ll have Pescados in the mix as well (1780g ea) with BD Ascension skins, that should make pow touring a bit lighter.

    50/50 boot: Cochise 130 with custom foot beds and Pulse powerstrap (best upgrade ever) 2105g (or +575g per foot)

    Poles: black crow Oxus fixed length 125 cm, they come with 30cm grips so easy to choke up on for sidehill, etc. 208g

    I have not skied the Protest with the XTD 130 yet, but I’m really looking forward to it, as I think the flex of each component will really compliment each other.

    I’m stoked on the Raven/XTD combo as both punch above their weight on the down and are (relatively) easy on the climb. I have never tried skimo gear so I don’t really know what I’m missing but I don’t necessarily want to find out either. I’ve always appreciated more mass in my ski gear and still really like my resort skis to weigh at least 2200g flat and have some metal (Enforcer 104, Monster 88, bodacious OG, etc).




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    Last edited by YaBoyBlue; 04-07-2020 at 09:49 PM.

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