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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Fish
    Posts
    3,243

    How heavy is your touring rig?

    I’m not talking about uber light setups, if it can’t be driven by a 4 buckle boot you need not apply. I’m quizzing to see how stupid my idea is of putting light bindings in some heavier skis... basically I want a wider setup to have more fun on but haven’t walked on anything heavy in a bit. I will still have a lighter setup for long days but am thinking about throwing some 300g bindings on some 2200g skis.... should still be lighter than dukes on basically anything...

    Heavy skis always ski better but what’s the cut off when it comes to lugging them up hill?
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    82
    Still a work in progress for me.

    Last year I toured a heap on Atris/Shift/Zero G Tour Pro. Was pretty hard work at times, particularly for multiday trips. Using Tectons made that setup more manageable, but I found heavier skis more work than heavier bindings (despite similar total weights).

    If you're skiing soft snow, your idea could totally work. But if it gets firm, I'd want at least a Tecton for that heel retention over pins.

    My issue is dialing in the boot - ZGTP feels a bit undergunned at times, but I'm not interested in going up to a Cochise or Nordica Strider.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sun Valley, ID
    Posts
    1,835
    Iím coming to the conclusion that light skis just suck balls

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    602
    I spent a half season skiing 250g Alpinists on 2400g renegades, (boots are burly Dalbello Factorys). I didn't have any issues with that setup other than just being slow (no prerelease, etc.). Switched out the Rens for 1800g Voile Chargers about 20 days ago and am very happy. Feels about the same on the downhill and way faster and more nimble on the climb.

    Disclaimer: 85% of my tours are 1500' to 3500' vertical with fairly easy approaches.

    I do occasionally take out my Zero G 85s, but except for perfect corn I often end up regretting not having something more stout. I'd rather be a little slower and have more fun.

    Sent from my SM-N970U using TGR Forums mobile app

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Not Brooklyn
    Posts
    6,488
    I once put some Speed Radicals on a pair of OG Cochises when I knew I'd be doing a bunch of short uphills to ski some sweet terrain with funky ass snow. This was pre-Beast 16, and therefore, pre Kingpin, Tecton, Shift etc. I don't like frame bindings. It's not only the weight that makes them suck. The setup worked quite well for my purpose. Then I pulled of the tech binding and put alpine bindings back on like a normal person.

    If I was facing a similar objective today with access to gear that is currently available I'd put some Tectons or Shifts on a ski that weighs around 2000g. There are some very stable skis that come in around this weight (Corvus and Rustler 11's come to mind). Rustler 11's with Shifts probably weigh as much or more than Cochises with Speed Radicals but the Rustler-Shift combo skis much better. I should know. I have a pair. Great for lift assisted touring.

    But if I'm actually going to lug a pair of skis and bindings up 3000'+ on a regular basis? No fucking way. 1800g max. The benefits extra mass beyond that are minimal. Unless the snow sucks, you can haul ass on 1600g skis with 200g bindings and a 1400g boot. The feel of lighter gear can be unnerving at first but it holds up just fine once you learn to trust it. And if the snow sucks that bad, why are you hauling ass in the backcountry? That's when I work enjoying the scenery, the exercise and the company and focus on getting home safely.

    That said, I always like to point out there isn't one right way to go ski touring. If there is a 2200g ski that just speaks to you, or you just get a kick out of skiing on a big-ass ski like Praxis Protests, then why the hell not? Worse thing that can happen is some know-it-all will tell you you're doing it wrong. Then you can go find someone else to ski with.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    507
    184 4Frnt Ravens with Zeds, no brakes. ~2175g total per foot.
    192 MAP Veneer Protests, with Shifts. ~3200g total per foot.

    I'm pretty on board with the idea of trying to save more weight in the binding and "budgeting" that weight for the ski. If I didn't ski the Protests inbounds with some regularity, I'd have a lighter binding on there. I'll probably add a more pow-oriented dedicated touring rig for next season (Renegades? Wildcat Tours? Not sure...) but I'll put a light-ish binding on those too. Zed/ATK Raider or Crest, etc.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Park City
    Posts
    3,408
    Iíve got carbon kusala in at 1950 ish so 8.5 pounds for the pair? Mounted w tltís, ski w Lange freetours. Great setup for me but Iím slow.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I rip the groomed on tele gear

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Squaw valley
    Posts
    2,947
    A few years ago i was on bonafides 180 with dynafit ft12
    Now I'm on vwerks katanas 184 with Salomon mtn, i probably lost 500 g per ski, and 500 g in boots, currently zero g pro

    But i can't say that I'm faster. I used to do 6,000 ft tours then and same now.
    The setup skis better though.

    Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    3,759
    Definitely a work in progress. I seem to have both extremes covered:

    • Praxis EXPs (88mm) / Plum Guides - 1,770 per foot
    • Praxis GPOs (116mm) / BD Helio 200s - 2,220 per foot

    The GPOs went from an inbound rig, to Vipec mounts, to the Helio 200s (ATK Haute Route). Knocking off 410g. per foot by going to the Helios, was no compromise for me in a soft snow ski. I'm slow as hell and need all the help on the up that I can recruit.

    Zero-G Tour Pro at the moment, although I've been curious about something like an F1 for quite some time. Rumor has it that it's as burly as the Mango Maestrale, and I was OK with that boot for the most part - mostly changing to the Z-G 'coz I have narrow heels & bony ankles.

    I've been in search of the Goldilocks, 100-ish ski for a while now. A CD 104L could be the ticket (the LD 102 wasn't quite my cup of tea, although it certainly had its virtues).

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    779
    I think that a heavier ski mated with light weight tech bindings makes a ton of sense for certain uses. 300-500grs extra in your skis should in most cases yield a larger benefit than 300-500gr extra in your bindings (Tecton or Shifts over MTN/ATKs) - even at the loss of TUV release and toe elasticity. With there being several boots in the 1400gr range that skis awesomely, a bomber setup at a reasonable weight should be very achievable.

    Of course, if all you are going to ski is perfect soft snow a heavier ski makes less sense.

    My main touring rigs for the next seasons will be Rustler10s and Rustler11s mounted with ATK FR14s - to be used with Hawx XTD 130s. Yeah, Rustlers are fairly light compared to a lot of skis similar skis, but they pack a decent punch as well. The main reason I decided to go with them (other than how awesomely they ski) is to have zero adjustment / relearning curve when I go touring. The slight weight penalty on the way up is more than worth it for the familiarity on the way down.

    I also have a pair of BMT90s (currently mounted with Vipecs, but might remount with ATK Raider 12 2.0s) and BMT122s w/MTNs. I only plan on using the BMT90s for mulitday treks (BMT90s can be bought dirt cheap in Euroland nowadays), while the BMT122s (can also be found at 60-70% off) doubles as lady shred resort pow sticks. The BMT122s are actually the ones I've spent the most time touring on this year. They ski/tour awesomely, but the black top sheet is suboptimal - snow sticks on them like it is going out of fashion (surprise surprise).

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasatch
    Posts
    5,696

    How heavy is your touring rig?

    183 Camox free with vipecs 2000g
    187 wootest with tecton who knows but they are fun and donít feel heavy
    182 and 192 drifter with tecton
    Not bad and a lot of float

    I used to carry skis with p18 so
    These are light by comparison
    Itís about the down for me mostly


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we finally made it to Utah.....


    Thanks BCSAR and POWMOW Ski Patrol for rescues

    8, 17, 13, 18, 16, 18, 20, 19, 16

    2018/2019 (24/32)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    71
    East coast touring and resort/travel touring. Currently using both with the same strider 130 but eyeing deals on touring spec boots for the light set.

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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    837
    I've got a kastle bmx 105 with shifts that i use with freetours - roughly 2350 ski, 885 binding and 1850 boot --> feels like lead on my feet. Imho sucks balls as a touring setup.
    Possibly not entirely weight related but a combination of weight, poor ROM in boot and single binding riser. Im in process of moving the shifts to a different ski and dumping the freetour for xtd. Im certain I'll be much happier even if the ski not as stout

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    311
    I run faction dictator 3 (~2100g?) + shift (~885g) + xtd(~1500g?). The weight balance works well for me such that the uphill is manageable and the downhill is fun.

    Have a pair of K2 wayback (88s I think) I got for cheap that Iím going to be mounting with vipecs I think for spring corn conditions.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    6,043
    I only have one currently and it's heavy. Like really heavy. It's mostly for traveling w/ some touring potential if need be.

    Dalbello Lupo Pro HD in a 26.5: ~4,000 grams total when including tongues. W/o ~3,600

    Dynastar Pro-to Factory w/ CAST 3.0 ~5,000 per pair +~2,000 grams in touring mode /~3,000 with everything included in total

    So we're looking at 4,000g boots+5,000g skis+3,000g bindings=12,000g total or 26 pounds. I felt it after a week touring in Jackson where we averaged 5k vert a day. May not be a lot for some of you, but it felt like it to me.

    I'm looking to get a lighter spring/more BC oriented setup that'll be the MTN Binding+something ~1,800 max per ski+Lupos (for now). Should be nice...
    For Sale:


    Dynastar Legend Factory 115 mounted 1x for 306mm Look Pivot

    Steeple 102 in a 184 mounted 1x for 302 Kingpins (mounting insert mishap though)

    Salomon Ghost 130 (Orange and Black Model Year) 26.5

    POC Auric Cut BC Spin XL

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...90#post5923890

    If you're in the Northeast and would like to borrow some Jigarex Plates I have:

    Rossi/Look plates
    Salomon Warden 13 plates
    Marker Kingpin Plates

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    83
    I've moved toward lighter since I play it pretty conservative re avy conditions
    Winter ski = Raven + FT2.0 = 2480g per foot
    - the Ravens do great for their weight given pretty stiff + rocker, only downside is uphill grip on steep hard snow
    - forgot how heavy those Dynas are, and one just broke... grrr
    Spring/summer (or distance) ski = Zero G 85 + Speed Rad = 1565g per foot... like 2 lbs per foot lighter!
    Use Maestrale RS for both

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    59
    I'm currently rocking ~2100g 188cm QST 99s mounted w/ Shifts (865g) using Tecnica Cochise 120s (1925g) for a grand total of 4890g. This is my first setup so I kinda just took what I had/could get cheap to put my setup together. I impulse bought some Woodsmans for my inbounds daily driver though and now the QST is only ever used for touring which puts it in an odd spot because I would go with a very different setup if I was just looking for a pure touring ski.

    I actually just ordered 189 Billy Goats (2450g) and Shifts again, and looking to get Hawx Ultra XTD 130s (1430g) so I'd be carrying similar weight (4745g) but would hopefully enjoy it more, and the Billy Goat would still get use in bounds as a powder ski when the weather called for it.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    457
    193 Praxis MVP/Shifts/S-Lab. Turns out to be 2050g + 885g + 1570g = 4505g per foot. It's burly but I think the performance is worth it and ski the setup inbounds as well. I've also never toured on anything much lighter. If I would get another setup it would be a pow ski with a lighter binding.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
    Posts
    6,626
    My two main rigs are:

    187 Praxis Protest, #4 flex enduro core w/ carbon + G3 Ion LT: about 2100g ski + 450g binding
    184 Praxis Freeride (older construction, roughly translates to #4 flex enduro core) + Salomon MTN (no brakes): about 2000g ski + 290g binding
    In both cases I typically use an Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD 130 at 1430g.
    I also use pretty exclusively BD GlideLite Mix skins, which are quite a bit lighter than an Ascension or similar.

    I also own Down LD90s with Dynafit Speed Radicals and Dynafit TLT6Ps but I generally only use them if I'm going for over 10mi or 4000'+ in a day. They're wonderful to skin on but absolutely do not ski as well as the above setups. Most of my days are in the range of 2000-4000' of climbing and the above setups are fantastic for that. Sure I could ski more on lighter gear but it's quality over quantity for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Mostly the Elks, mostly.
    Posts
    691
    on3p Cease and Desist + shifts .. 3292g/ski
    on3p Pillow Fight + shifts .. 3641g/ski

    ascensions and maestrales.

    start early. start slow, taper. Suffer.
    But enjoy the skiing!

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Golden B.C.
    Posts
    329
    Vision 108 183, 1605g
    Sally mtn w/o brakes 300g
    Coltex skins
    Dalbello Lupo air 130, 1500ish g

    Set up is really light, powerful, damp and fun. No interest in going heavier. Ive skied it as hard as i can and it skis great. Sleep in, walk fast, suffer, have fun skiing lol.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    5,281
    I've been a light-is-right guy mostly but for my new setup I am putting ATK Trofeos on BC Solis (~1950g/ski) and driving them with Tecnica ZeroG Tour Pros. I'll let you know how it works out. I've got Trofeos on a 1650g/ski setup and they do just fine. I wouldn't really worry about the weight of the binding I guess, save that for the skis or boots, imo anyway.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
    Posts
    6,626
    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    I wouldn't really worry about the weight of the binding I guess, save that for the skis or boots, imo anyway.
    I generally agree with this. Adding weight to skis or boots generally yields larger performance gains than adding weight in the binding. Figuring out what features you want in a binding then buying the lightest one that has those is the way to go IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
    Posts
    3,497
    Quote Originally Posted by skisurfmirth View Post
    Vision 108 183, 1605g
    Sally mtn w/o brakes 300g
    I think this is pretty much the sweet spot if your partners are in decent touring shape.

    If I'm going with someone slow I have some 180 Rustler 11's with Shifts, but they feel heavy. Putting MTN's on them would drop ~600 grams, but they ski better with Shifts. Boot is Zero G Tour Pro.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    9,498
    Eluder, it doesn't matter what setup you go with, you're realistically going to ski it 3 times, decide there's something better out there, sell it, and buy something else that's slightly different. The cycle will then repeat. That answer is the same regardless of the weight of the setup, and regardless of how much you fret about it on the internet.

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