How heavy is your touring rig?

[thecazdog]

I think there is a point of diminishing returns for the downhill performance of your heavy gear. Especially on longer touring days/trips.

There's definitely a weight spectrum that I've operated across, and the ends of that are the most interesting for me to think about.

Lower limit (say 6.5%, for a skimo-esk rig) is fine in consistent corn, but any sort of weird or deep snow makes it hard work. So for me at least, lowest weight is tied to my (questionable) skiing ability and snow conditions more than anything else. Elaborate way of saying basically the lightest rig I can still have fun on, which sometimes means reasonably heavy.

The upper limit is more interesting, and if you have excessive gear syndrome/different setups you can creep up in weight and then suddenly find that point at which it's too much.

For example, last year I did lots on both these setups (same boots):
Atris/Shift 11.2%
Wildcat Tour 108 / Shift 10.4%

But yeah, the difference between being above or below 11% for me was substantial. The Atris would brutalise me on big days, whilst the WCT108 was never uncomfortable.

[gregL]

Interesting data points! Did you feel the heaviest setup weighed enough that it was less fun overall to tour on?

Fatigue factor was definitely more noticeable, plus I feel confident on pretty much any terrain/snow on the Zero G 105 rig @ 9.5% and wouldn't choose to lug more weight uphill except in an emergency or "travel" scenario . . .

[gregL]

Funny. I was 77kg in 8th grade. Last time I ran into you touring was a quite a few years ago going up Mt. Catherine after a big pow dump. You were fit as a fiddle, up front stomping track 50% of the time.

We should do it again when this COVID-madness abates . . .

[GeezerSteve]

I'm in

[ThatDudeDane]

189 Line Vision 108 - 1605 g per ski
Dynafit Rotation ST 12 - ~624 g per binder
Dalbello Lupo Pro HD - ~1860 g per boot (without tongues)
Black Diamond Ascension - 375 g per skin

My first and only touring setup got mounted just yesterday! Feelin' pretty stoked on it. Boots are a little heavier than I would like, but whatever, it'll help on the downhill, plus they fit great and I got them for an absolute steal. Ready to go climb some PNW volcanoes.. now, FUCK OFF, COVID! ;-)

[whyturn]

Used the super light Camox freebird with vipec evo today. 2000g per foot and maybe another 250g for skins
Dalbello ax 120 worked well


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[madriverfreeride]

Are you positive on that vision weight? My 189s were over 1700 grams and my current 183 are around 1600. Maybe you got a nice light pair, or I got a heavy pair.

[DGamms]

I'd certainly agree with the idea that, if you are spent when you get to the top, you aren't going to have fun skiing regardless of how heavy the gear is that you're skiing on. I would also say OTOH though that doing things like casual skimo races or just forcing yourself to transition immediately can help you get used to skiing with that tired feeling in you still, which is imo as much or more mental as physical.

Spoken like a skier who dabbles in SkiMo and tours a helluva lot more than I do per season!!

[glademaster]

Used the super light Camox freebird with vipec evo today. 2000g per foot and maybe another 250g for skins
Dalbello ax 120 worked well


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Interesting setup to run such a heavy binding on such a lightweight ski. What's the rationale behind that?

[1000-oaks]

I'm putting Tecton's (340g) on Mantra VW (~1,605g) for shorter days and booting, and Xenic on VTA 98 (~1,400g) and Down YW89 (1,200g) for longer days.

[mall walker]

^ skimoco has the tecton at 586g/foot without brakes... is that wildly off?

I also recall the vipec being way different in weight... blister has the evo 12 at 500g without brakes...?

[1000-oaks]

Haven't calibrated my scale, but here's what I have in my notes for one binding. (I believe some of Wildsnow's weights are off.)

Tecton:
585g without brake arm or screws
680g with brake & screws (toe: 269g, heel w/o brake: 311g, brake: 80g, screws 23g) (I'm off by 5g somewhere here.)

Vipec Evo:
632g (toe: 271g, heel w/o brake 266g, 120 brake 72g, screws 23g)

Vipec Black:
627g with 120 brake and screws

[kid-kapow]

^ Vipec Evo is 316g per binding with brakes, making WT's Camox Freebird 1,684g, so not all that lightweight as far as AT skis go. Could save 150-175g per foot with ultralight binders, but that gives up the horizontal toe release and toe elasticity. Seems like a good mid-weight combo.

I'm putting Tecton's (340g) on Mantra VW (~1,605g) for shorter days and booting, and Xenic on VTA 98 (~1,400g) and Down YW89 (1,200g) for longer days.

Did you divide the Fritschi weights by two? Tectons are 680gr/foot or some such, while Vipecs are 500gr or so w/o brakes, 580 with. Well worth it if you prioritize the downs imho, though bindings like MTN also ski very well.

Mantra VWs and Tectons should be a killer setup - I am putting Vipecs on mine. It will not be feather weight, but man oh man it will be capable going downhill

[mall walker]

those Mantra VWs look dope, are you all paying a G for them tho? I’d love to try a pair but they seem so spendy

[glademaster]

^ Vipec Evo is 316g per binding with brakes, making WT's Camox Freebird 1,684g, so not all that lightweight as far as AT skis go. Could save 150-175g per foot with ultralight binders, but that gives up the horizontal toe release and toe elasticity. Seems like a good mid-weight combo.

I'm putting Tecton's (340g) on Mantra VW (~1,605g) for shorter days and booting, and Xenic on VTA 98 (~1,400g) and Down YW89 (1,200g) for longer days.

Vipec Evo's weigh out to 630-635g per binding.

So my question still stands. A ~1300g ski is going to ski like ass in anything but perfect snow, regardless of what binding you put on it, so why bolt a heavy tech binding onto a ski like that?

IME/IMO, at the same total mass, a "heavy" ski with a light binding will ski better than a light ski with a "heavy" binding.

[kid-kapow]

Völkl changes the graphics on the MVW and Katana VWs for next year (after keeping them the same for two years), so shops are looking to get rid of the current graphic ones. At least here in Scandiland. 40-50% off retail is the current pricing.

IME/IMO, at the same total mass, a "heavy" ski with a light binding will ski better than a light ski with a "heavy" binding.

I was totally preaching that approach as well before riding Rustler10s w/ATK FR14s and Völkl BMT 90 v/Vipecs back to back. After, well - the jury is still out, but the BMT90s will be in the quiver going forward whilst the R10s have already been sold.

I have been blown away by the BMT90s (177). Their performance is the main reason I picked up said Mantras, as well as a pair of Katanas. BMT90s ski very, very well for their weight imho. I have not tried them with traditional tech bindings, but the pairing with Vipecs (currently w/o brakes) is golden. I skied them back to back with Praxis EXPs (173) w/Atomic Backland bindings today. Both ski well, if quite differently. It would be interesting to try the EXPs back to back with BMT90s in 170 though, as the 177 is notiably more ski.

I think the Camox+Vipec setup sounds like a pretty sweet setup, especially if they will see a (fair) bit of resort time as well. It should be a versatile setup if nothing else. The Camox is not über light and BC/Julien states that their focus is more on skiability - that is downhill performance - then weight, so again - the pairing makes sense to me at least.

[gregL]

Haven't calibrated my scale, but here's what I have in my notes. (I believe some of Wildsnow's weights are off.)

Tecton:
585g without brake arm or screws
680g with brake & screws (toe: 269g, heel w/o brake: 311g, brake: 80g, screws 23g) (I'm off by 5g somewhere here.)

Vipec Evo:
632g (toe: 271g, heel w/o brake 266g, 120 brake 72g, screws 23g)

Vipec Black:
627g with 120 brake and screws

All of those weights are for one binding, not two.

[1000-oaks]

Did you divide the Fritschi weights by two? Tectons are 680gr/foot or some such, while Vipecs are 500gr or so w/o brakes, 580 with. Well worth it if you prioritize the downs imho, though bindings like MTN also ski very well.

Mantra VWs and Tectons should be a killer setup - I am putting Vipecs on mine. It will not be feather weight, but man oh man it will be capable going downhill

Total brain fail, lol. My bad.

those Mantra VWs look dope, are you all paying a G for them tho? I’d love to try a pair but they seem so spendy

Think mine were $600 last Summer.

[::: :::]

got round to weighing my AT stuff
i was never trying to go light, but this thread provoked the question of what i'm carrying uphill

193 black crows corvus + look hm12 :: 3001g
27.5 dalbello lupo 120ax w/ 130 tongue + stock liner + alpine blocks :: 1815g
black diamond traverse pole :: 305g

5121g x 2 = 10242g (22 1/2 lbs)

10.242kg / 98.89kg* = 10.4%

10.242kg / 90.7kg** = 11.3%

* skiing weight this winter
** I lost 17+ lbs since end of Jan, so my % would be up right now (if I could ski...)

it seems like i'm def in the heavyweight category either way

i don't even want to know what my old frame binding setup was now...


EDIT
oof...just discovered kitchen scale I used maxed out at 6lb 10oz...which is 3kg

^^^ski weight + bindings is off
so the percentage is going up too

[CuriousGeorge]

Me - 6ft 175lb

Mid Winter
Praxis BC 190 - Plum Guide - 2400

Early, Late & bigger days
Praxis Yeti 182 - Plum Guide - 1900

Lupo AX 120 - Pro tour - 1500

The BC's are an older vintage with quite a bit of backbone, they keep trucking in pretty much anything

Yeti's are new to me ~10 days now, impressed with how much fun they are on the down considering weight

Personally value boot performance over ski, Lupo is a good fit and goes uphill well sans tongue

Guides are a bit of a mixed bag, had toe issues but the design has evolved if you look closely, heals are fine and they ski well with a toe shim

Overall content with where I'm at @ the mo..

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[glademaster]

got round to weighing my AT stuff
i was never trying to go light, but this thread provoked the question of what i'm carrying uphill

193 black crows corvus + look hm12 :: 3001g
27.5 dalbello lupo 120ax w/ 130 tongue + stock liner + alpine blocks :: 1815g
black diamond traverse pole :: 305g

5121g x 2 = 10242g (22 1/2 lbs)

10.242kg / 98.89kg* = 10.4%

10.242kg / 90.7kg** = 11.3%

* skiing weight this winter
** I lost 17+ lbs since end of Jan, so my % would be up right now (if I could ski...)

it seems like i'm def in the heavyweight category either way

i don't even want to know what my old frame binding setup was now...

Don't forget your skins.

[nickel]

got round to weighing my AT stuff
i was never trying to go light, but this thread provoked the question of what i'm carrying uphill

193 black crows corvus + look hm12 :: 3001g
27.5 dalbello lupo 120ax w/ 130 tongue + stock liner + alpine blocks :: 1815g
black diamond traverse pole :: 305g

5121g x 2 = 10242g (22 1/2 lbs)

10.242kg / 98.89kg* = 10.4%

10.242kg / 90.7kg** = 11.3%

* skiing weight this winter
** I lost 17+ lbs since end of Jan, so my % would be up right now (if I could ski...)

it seems like i'm def in the heavyweight category either way

i don't even want to know what my old frame binding setup was now...

IMO This post exposes the flaw of the formula. Dude lost 17 pounds. Anyone think he'd find his setup 0.9% harder to drag uphill? I lost 25 pounds this winter. I definitely did not suddenly feel like my setup was worse for it.

Great starting point though.

[::: :::]

Don't forget your skins.

Doh... nice catch

Another 820g (w/ skin keepers still on)

12.2%

I def had more weight to lose on my body than in my kit

Altho, if I went weight weenie, I’m sure there’s plenty more to save

[whyturn]

Interesting setup to run such a heavy binding on such a lightweight ski. What's the rationale behind that?

It’s what I knew from Lou
I made a call and it skis good. Don’t like super light
The up is fine it’s light. Down feels safe


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[smooth operator]

IME/IMO, at the same total mass, a "heavy" ski with a light binding will ski better than a light ski with a "heavy" binding.

everthing within reason of course, but in general I agree with this.