How heavy is your touring rig?

[donutlynx]

BD 175 Helio 105 w/ Superlite 2's (~3350g / pair)
Still touring in Titan UL's w/ Intuitions (~3500g / pair)
BD Glidelite Mix (~600g / pair)

Somewhere around 3725 grams per foot.

[DGamms]

Still pretty psyched on this setup for my low tide/go light go far touring equipment.

Line Vision 98 179cm + Xenics brakeless + Pomoca Climb-Pro S Glide skins + Fischer Travers CS 27.5 + Intuition Tour Wrap 27s with 4mm foam shims + Green Superfeet = approx 3200gm per foot

[DGamms]

One more thought... ski tour fanatics will often obsess about the dynamic weight attached to their feet to the gram. But not much attention is paid to the dynamic weight in your hands.

I’m not a ski tour guru by any means. But light poles have certainly helped me feel less tired this season. It’s weight that you have to lift every step, just like your boots/bindings/skis.

If you never collapse your two/three piece telescopic poles, then why carry that weight on most tours?

I got some 125cm BD Helio poles with powder baskets at 50% off this year. Well worth it so far.

I added a tiny bit of black duct tape on the handle and about 10” down for side hill grip. They are still stupid light.



Ok, ONE more last thought. Sorry, I’m bored.

Is there a good metric out there for dynamic touring weight (poles+skis+bindings+boots+liners+foot beds+shims/booster straps+skins) vs total kg weight of the skier? Maybe there is already.

But if not, I’m going to propose the following:

For a lightweight uphill but downhill capable (not skimo but not inbounds charging) ski touring setup, the golden ratio of grams of dynamic weight per kg of naked skier should equal approximately 50.

Example 1:
- DGamms weighs approximately 66kg with nothing on.
- His total dynamic touring setup weight (hands and feet) for his light kit is approximately 3380gm
- DGamms ratio: 3380/66 = 51.2

Thoughts?? Is a golden ratio of 50 too low or too high? Perseverate and pontificate freely.

Lord knows most of us don’t have anything else to do

[gregL]

4699 g. = Blizzard Rustler 11 (180), Atomic Shift, Lange XT Free LV (26.5)
3153 g. = Blizzard Zero G 105 (180), Atomic Backland Tour (no brake), Tecnica Zero G Tour Pro (26.5)
2477 g. = Blizzard Zero G 95 (171), Atomic Backland Tour (no brake), Dalbello Quantum Asolo (27.5)

[backcountrybummer]

Just for fun
5323g touring
5728g skiing
2019 K2 Catamarans in 186, 2019 K2 pinnacle 130s in 28.5, and CAST Freetour Upgrade Kit.

This is my heaviest option although my others aren't much lighter... Thinking is I'm still a young buck so might as well work harder on the up to enjoy my down uncompromised while I still can.

[MiddleOfNight]

One more thought... ski tour fanatics will often obsess about the dynamic weight attached to their feet to the gram. But not much attention is paid to the dynamic weight in your hands.

Interesting. Consider me interested.
Screw with your chi on the downhill at all?

[DGamms]

Interesting. Consider me interested.
Screw with your chi on the downhill at all?

The light poles? No, not at all.

If you are doing a touring day that truly requires using your hands outside of normal pole plants (ice axes or whippets on a steep couloir or exposed face) then the BD Helio Carbon fixed length poles don’t make sense.

But that’s a rare tour for me.

The only other potential downside to these poles (outside of retail cost) is that they will literally be blown away in high ridge top winds.

Ultimately, like most things, I think the cost/benefit of light poles will probably come down to personal preference of how and where you tour.

TLDR...

Do you really need an adjustable ski pole most touring days?

And bigger picture, where does your light touring setup fall on the metric of the DGamms Golden Ratio: total leg/arm dynamic weight in grams divided by naked skier weight in kg??

Above or below 50? And if significantly above or below, why or why not?

[mall walker]

^ I'm a big fan of one piece aluminum poles with an extended grip, the Helios are too spendy for me but I have some trabs ( https://skimo.co/ski-trab-maestro-poles ) and they're great. I also have dual whippets for that kind of day, but almost always just take the trabs. 125cm, simple light and durable. in the Wasatch I never need to adjust them anyway, it's not like we have 5 mile approaches across frozen lakes where you're skating nordic style or anything.

so I'm at ski/binding 2130g, 1376g boot, 255g skin, 226g pole... 150lbs soaking wet is ~68kg so my DGamms ratio is at at 58.6. I guess I should count my gloves... my Trab Maximos are 136g, not sure on my OR ExtraVerts. I have looot of different glove combos though... but the maximos would have my DGamms ratio at 60

[Kreemcheese]

One more thought... ski tour fanatics will often obsess about the dynamic weight attached to their feet to the gram. But not much attention is paid to the dynamic weight in your hands.

I’m not a ski tour guru by any means. But light poles have certainly helped me feel less tired this season. It’s weight that you have to lift every step, just like your boots/bindings/skis.

If you never collapse your two/three piece telescopic poles, then why carry that weight on most tours?

I got some 125cm BD Helio poles with powder baskets at 50% off this year. Well worth it so far.

I added a tiny bit of black duct tape on the handle and about 10” down for side hill grip. They are still stupid light.

Those BD Helios are so freaking light but so incredibly expensive! Do you think about the strength of the pole while using them? I tend to wack my boots a bit hard sometimes and feel like I would brake the carbon to easily?

I use a pair of Scott Cascade Telescopics since I find myself adjusting the length quite often and like the ability to collapse them a bit before sticking between my back and backpack when switching to ice-axs or rappelling.

And I also think I like my poles a bit short when skiing? 183cm or 6 feet and almost always ski with 115cm (45 inch)

[gregL]

And I also think I like my poles a bit short when skiing? 183cm or 6 feet and almost always ski with 115cm (45 inch)

Perfect for the park.

[swissiphic]

I'm always adjusting my adjustable poles. Worth their weight in gold. Shorten for steep pitches, asymmetrical really long/really short for sidehillz, super long for power double poling on the flats. The range of hand position on a regular fixed length pole just doesn't cut the mustard.

On the note of weight...personally, i find that super light poles bring more drawbacks than benefits...ime, they break, whereas durable heavy workhorses like black diamond razor carbons generally don't. Also, the light poles really suck when skiing fast and/or in windy conditions...they don't 'swing' forward and you waste more energy trynna do proper pole plants. Just my obs/opinion.

[GeezerSteve]

I dislike the swingweight of every adjustable pole I've tried, although I use them for some fat fishscale tours and tours where I anticipate double-poling long low angle exits. For most tours I use a simple tough inexpensive BD Expedition 1 Al alloy 1-piece pole, mostly because the swingweight hits the sweet spot for me.

Our lightest touring rig (ski + binding + boot) weights:

Mine: 184cm Salomon MTN Explore 95 + Turn 2.0 modded w/DIY Al top plate and B&D volcano + TLT6 w/CL liner (30.5) = 3330g ETA 3738g w/skin

Wife's: 163 Fischer Transalp 88 + TLT heel modded with DIY Al top plate and B&D volcano/4-screw Radical toe + Atomic Backland Carbon (26.5) = 2800g ETA 3190 w/skin

ETA: Our lightest fat fishscale rigs are roughly the same weight, should get lighter if/when we replace with HyperVector BC

[mall walker]

^ those BD Expedition 1s are awesome, the only reason I switched is I badly bent one JONGing it up and couldn't find another pair in my size. Probably my favorites though (assuming you have the bomber black/yellow ones)

[nickel]

Perfect for the park.

I'm also 6ft, hate the park, and collapse my poles to 115 for skiing.

On a recent hut trip there was a guy skiing with his poles still set at 125 as a 5'8 guy. It was messing with his body position in a big way and our guide told him so. He tried skiing with shorter poles and it instantly reduced the weird stuff he was doing with his upper body.

Different strokes and all that but I'm quite surprised to hear the pole lengths many here are using.

[plugboots]

Climb 140, ski 120. I don’t ever shorten up on the pole on side hills, I just angle the pole back behind me and push off it that way. I push off with my poles a lot. It seems for some reason back country skiers don’t do this, but I definitely push hard off my poles.
Edit to add I'm 6'2" but with 36" shirt sleeve length arms. My skate poles are even with my forehead.

[snowaddict91]

I'll continue on with the thread drift. I'm a hair under 6' and ski with my poles at 110-115 typically. If I think about it, I usually extended my poles to 120 for the up.

[plugboots]

Got around to weighing my stuff.
Praxis BC+C 190 + ATK Raider 2 = 2255g + TLT5P (1170g) = 3425g + BD UL mix (484g) = 3909g
DPS original pure Wailer 112/190 + Vert. ST = 2333g + TLT5P (1170g) = 3503g + BD mix (682g) = 4185g
Lhasa C 196 + Tecton = 2857g + Cochise (2054g) = 4911g + G3 speed (650g) = 5561g

Mrs. Plug light set-up:
Praxis LePetit UL+C 168 + ATK Raider 2 = 1800g + Scarpa Diva (1550g) = 3350g + BD UL mix (424g) = 3774g

Not a lot of surprises, but thought the Praxis set-up would be a lot lighter than the DPS, but then saw the 200g difference w/ the skins. Also thought the TLT5's would be closer to 1Kg, esp. w/Intuition tours. Boots are beat, so shopping for something similar.

[mall walker]

using longer fixed length poles with the extended grip I usually just choke up on the descent...

[plugboots]

using longer fixed length poles with the extended grip I usually just choke up on the descent...

I see that a lot with some of my buds. I may rethink some things if and when my BD C fliklocks break.

[XXX-er]

Having taken a few chopper rides into huts and done a season of hut expediting

the BD flicklock is the classic pole you see most often IME in fact its so prolific people get them mixed up

I wrap the uppers on mine with road bike tape,

[glademaster]

Skis: 182cm Skinny Praxis Quixotes (108 underfoot) mounted with G3 Ion12's (with ski crampon adapter): 2547g and 2540g

Boots: La Sportiva Spectre 2.0 (27.5) with Intuition Dreamliner and custom insole: 1573g and 1575g

Skins: BD Ascension Nylon: 401g and 402g

Poles: Leki Carbon Adjustable: 260g each

Total weight per foot: ~4520g

[DGamms]

Interesting to hear everyone’s take on pole lengths and weights. At 5’ 9” with my 125cm Helios, I do what mall walker said: just choke up a little on the downhill. I’m not super sensitive to pole length though. I will ski park with 110 cm poles one day and ski sidecountry with my 125 cm poles without feeling like I have to change my technique much.

I totally agree with others about using collapsible poles when you need to use ice axes/whippets/ropes. I just don’t do much touring like that.

Kreemcheese: I’ve treated the Helios like any other pole, they haven’t needed babying to keep them from breaking yet. But I probably only have 25-30 days on them so far.

GeezerSteve and Plugboots: your setups seem pretty light too. What does the ratio of your touring gear dynamic weight in gms divided by your naked weight in kg look like?

XXX-Er: agree, you see a lot of those BD flicklock poles on the BC hut trips for the guests. But interestingly the guides I went with all used fixed length poles. They said it was more for pole durability than anything else.

Mall Walker: you tour about 50 times the amount I do per season. Do you feel like that your gm/kg ratio of 60 is about perfect for you in the Wasatch? Also, as an aside: I bought some of those Trab Maximo Gloves on your recommendation for touring. They are awesome, thanks!

[snowaddict91]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/p8VT3bw8P7YiKKQJ7

Watch that with sound on to hear Mall Walker having an epiphany about ski weight.

[mall walker]

Mall Walker: you tour about 50 times the amount I do per season. Do you feel like that DGamms ratio of 60 is about perfect for you in the Wasatch? Also, as an aside: I bought some of those Trab Maximo Gloves on your recommendation for touring. They are awesome, thanks!

Well, I've been on a much lighter setup (1.5lbs/foot lighter) which had me at about a perfect 50 DGamms ratio for a long time. Now at a 60 it's a bit heavier, but the down is more fun... only 33k' on the heavy kit so far, so time will tell. So far I haven't noticed that I'm much slower with the heavier setup, but I am more sore, especially after 2 or 3 consecutive 4k'+ dawn patrols. Hopefully I'll just adjust / get strong though.

Those Maximo gloves are the absolute shit, although eventually they wear out... I've been trying to ration my usage of them for only the days when I really need it, if I can get by with a thinner glove I've been doing that lol. But the Maximos w/a nitrile glove underneath have been perfect for me for temps from about -5F to about 35F, which is plenty of range for me. Glad you like em! I will probably buy another new pair next year, but I do wish they were a bit more durable. At least this year's are more durable than last year's though...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/p8VT3bw8P7YiKKQJ7

Watch that with sound on to hear Mall Walker having an epiphany about ski weight.

hahah. my first turns on that setup, god damn they were fun. also that's me not choking up on 125cm poles at 5'10" ... hey my technique sucks, whatever, I'm having fun

[plugboots]

My DGamms ratio, huh, hadn't thought about it. I'm ~80 Kg, so 49 for the Praxis and 69 for the Lhasas.