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Thread: How heavy is your touring rig?
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04-15-2020, 11:27 AM #176Registered User
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Interesting how this can *almost* apply to mountain biking. I've always prioritized the down because honestly saving a few grams or even a pound or two doesn't overall change the fact that I'm a slow climber. Sure, lighter bike with less travel makes for easier climbing and maybe I'm a couple of minutes faster but if it's at the expense of really enjoying the down, then I've always opted for the heavier, bigger travel bike. Gonna apply the same principles to my new touring setup and see how it goes as I'll definitely be prioritizing the down. I'm coming off frame bindings so I think anything will be an improvement over those! (except they were dead easy to use and had predictable release... at least for me).
The K-12 dude. You make a gnarly run like that and girls will get sterile just looking at you - Charles De Mar
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04-15-2020, 11:34 AM #177Banned
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04-15-2020, 12:41 PM #178
Read this thread lots and learned lots thanks. I’ve always had a “heavier” sidecountry set-up (R11s/Shifts) as I’m mostly a resort skier (kid in ski school all day) and am more focussed on the down. I’m not fast up. But I’m a decent skier.
I’m grumpy today also.
Rant coming....
I like that people are really passionate and techy, nerdy about bc gear weight, gear weight to body weight ratios etc.
I know light gear helps with travel speed up.
And I’m all for doing your own thing....whatever makes you happy. And I love gear so I’m always interested.
But if you are super techy about bc gear yet you can’t ski that well on the way down then please please lose that tiny bit of superiority in your tone, when you talk/lecture? about how light your gear is, or what your vertical speed climbing up is....when the rest of us poor dumbasses really have no idea....but we are decent skiers and we know we don’t look like an intermediate who is skiing pow for the first time. You know you ski like an intermediate....so lose the tone. Just tell us about the gear. Thx!
And ya same applies to mtn bikes. Fucking hate when the first thing people do after a ride is review their Strava for 15 minutes, looking for personal records. Instead of talking and shooting the shit with each other while having a beer. When riding with these people I intentionally stop to screw up their Strava. They get so stressed...even when it’s a beautiful day for a ride. They only care about their time. Ya wonder what their parents did to them as a kid? Yeesh! Again to each their own._________________________________________________
I love big dumps.
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04-15-2020, 03:07 PM #179Registered User
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My take is that all the frame bindings weigh at least 2 kilo, any tech binding will only be < half the weight of a frame binding which is the lions share of weight I can shed so i will put up with brakes and better heelpices over going super light
I still use frame bindings on piste or for early season rock skis and I can see how they slow me down compared to my long time touring buds on tech bindings
if yer a tech newby DO learn how to clear pins and toe piecesLee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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04-15-2020, 04:39 PM #180Registered User
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The K-12 dude. You make a gnarly run like that and girls will get sterile just looking at you - Charles De Mar
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04-15-2020, 07:11 PM #181Galibier Designcrafting technology in service of music
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04-15-2020, 07:18 PM #182yet you can’t ski that well on the way downYou know you ski like an intermediate....so lose the tone.Well maybe I'm the faggot America
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda
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04-15-2020, 07:26 PM #183
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04-15-2020, 07:38 PM #184
Sold the 180 Rustler 11/Shift setup when none of my travel plans materialized this year. Replaced it last week with a Blizzard Zero G 85 (164). With Atomic Backland Tour (no brake), Dalbello Quantum Asolo Factory it's 2349 g. per side (add 205 g. for G3 Minimalist Glide skin). Sure, when it's super gloppy and sticky I ski like an intermediate on them, but today in nice corn they were $$$.
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04-15-2020, 09:17 PM #185
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04-15-2020, 09:28 PM #186Registered User
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I don’t have full set weights so I won’t be as fancy as everyone else here but:
183cm line vision 108 (1650ish grams) w/ radical 1 fts
Plus multiple other fat skis with cast freetours on them, use cast when hiking less than an hour or resort accessed stuff, vision 108s for everything else.
Have one more second ski kit for the cast which might go on any number of skis, most interesting option would be pon2oons, most versatile option would be my beloved rossi sickles.
Boots:
Hawx xtd w/ alpine liners for shorter tours or more demanding skiing, stock liner for long walks.
Nordica promachine w/ cast tech toe for sidecountry and or very short tours where I want an alpine boot for the down, done about an hour tour in them and it wasn’t the worst thing in the world but wasn’t great.Last edited by madriverfreeride; 04-16-2020 at 10:30 AM.
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04-16-2020, 08:45 PM #187Registered User
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184 Steeple 108 and Tecton ~2880 grams. Old ascension skins - heavy. OG Maestrale RS - heavy for what it is. Set up performs great in all conditions and shines in pow. Brutal overkill for long springtime walks in the sun. Boots are on their way out and lighter spring set up is being pieced together.
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04-17-2020, 08:37 AM #188Registered User
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But if you are super techy about bc gear yet you can’t ski that well on the way down then please please lose that tiny bit of superiority in your tone, when you talk/lecture?
Being able to ski really well is a big advantage though because its way easier to get fit and move fast than it is to learn to ski well.
Which brand of superior am I? Hahaha
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04-17-2020, 08:49 AM #189Registered User
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While I am pretty sure nobody here is as cool as I am, however they ski or bike is still fine with me ... people need to either go lighter or heavier
Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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04-17-2020, 09:53 AM #190
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04-17-2020, 10:05 AM #191
Just picked up a pair Zero G 95's to add the mix. BD Helio 200's or MTN's hmmm....
a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort
Formerly Rludes025
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04-17-2020, 10:09 AM #192
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04-17-2020, 12:37 PM #193Registered User
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Those Helio 145s look awesome! Sort of wish I had put those on my light setup instead of Xenics. Oh well.
My larger point from a few posts ago was that listing the grams of your touring setup without putting it in context of the weight of the skier doesn’t make sense. It’s equivalent to saying you ski a 194cm length ski, but ignoring the fact you are 5’ 6” or 6’ 4”.
The 10% rule seems about right to me for a light touring setup (total dynamic gear weight of 2 skis/2 bindings/2 boots/2 skins/2 poles should equal about 10% of the total weight of the naked skier).
And by expressing this as a percentage, you guys can make much more apples-to-apples comparisons between setups. Without using the context of the skier’s individual weight, comparing the weights of multiple touring setups alone has much less relevance.
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04-17-2020, 12:56 PM #194
Fair enough, though I'm fatter than most of you at 77 kilos so it looks more impressive. The Zero G 85 setup with Dalbello Quantum Asolo Factory boots, Backland Tours and G3 Minimist Mix skins + Leki Aergonlite 2's (231 g. each) = 7.2 %. Winter setup with Zero G 105's, Backland Tours, G3 Alpinist skins and same poles = 9.5%
Edit to add: Rustler 11/Shift/Lange XT Free/G3 Alpinist+ Universal/Leki Aergonlite2 setup = 13.5% - I only skinned on it one day, and yeah, it was too heavy for my tastes.
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04-17-2020, 02:02 PM #195
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04-17-2020, 04:55 PM #196Registered User
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we bought the 1st DPS wailers with the shiny top sheet in the narth back when you pay in advance and the skis show up 2 months later, some guy in the lift line asked if they were relly as good as they say ?
oh yeah man !Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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04-17-2020, 06:36 PM #197
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04-18-2020, 11:18 AM #198Registered User
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Interesting data points! Did you feel the heaviest setup weighed enough that it was less fun overall to tour on?
I remember hauling a heavy setup on a four day hut trip in the Sawtooths a few years ago. I knew we were going to be skiing steep terrain, so I prioritized downhill performance over uphill weight/speed.
Lange XT 130 LVs (26.5) with Booster Strap and bontex shims: 1520 gm
Zipfit WC with custom footbeds: 780 gm
184cm 4FRNT Ravens: 1780 gm
Kingpin 13s: 770 gm
Kohla skins: 280 gm
Old BD 2-piece flicklock alu poles: 310 gm
The dynamic weight of my setup was 5440 gm per side! This put me at a total dynamic gear weight per kg of naked skier percentage of 16.5%.
The effort required to climb with this heavy of a setup (in addition to the increased effort of skinning due to the crappy ROM of the Zipfit liners) meant that by the time I got to the top of the face or couloir each day, I was so tired I couldn’t ski well on the descent.
All that to say: even for the ski tourer who is focused primarily on the descent, I think there is a point of diminishing returns for the downhill performance of your heavy gear. Especially on longer touring days/trips.Last edited by DGamms; 04-18-2020 at 09:41 PM. Reason: Math error
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04-18-2020, 11:37 AM #199
I'd certainly agree with the idea that, if you are spent when you get to the top, you aren't going to have fun skiing regardless of how heavy the gear is that you're skiing on. I would also say OTOH though that doing things like casual skimo races or just forcing yourself to transition immediately can help you get used to skiing with that tired feeling in your legs still, which is imo as much or more mental as physical. If you just get used to always skiing with burning sore legs your body eventually just tunes it out to a greater degree than you'd think, or that's been my experience anyway. I notice the fatigue after say, a 10k' day going up way more than coming down, even if the last descent is steep in bad snow etc., ymmv of course.
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04-18-2020, 12:52 PM #200
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