How heavy is your touring rig?

[TheK12]

That equation has validity if the tour's sole objective is the descent. For some tourists, that's always the goal, but not for others, at least not all the time. Sometimes skiing is the best mode of transport to tag a summit or do a mountaineering route or to get from Point A to Point B (and usually back to Point A).

Interesting how this can *almost* apply to mountain biking. I've always prioritized the down because honestly saving a few grams or even a pound or two doesn't overall change the fact that I'm a slow climber. Sure, lighter bike with less travel makes for easier climbing and maybe I'm a couple of minutes faster but if it's at the expense of really enjoying the down, then I've always opted for the heavier, bigger travel bike. Gonna apply the same principles to my new touring setup and see how it goes as I'll definitely be prioritizing the down. I'm coming off frame bindings so I think anything will be an improvement over those! (except they were dead easy to use and had predictable release... at least for me).

[glademaster]

Interesting how this can *almost* apply to mountain biking. I've always prioritized the down because honestly saving a few grams or even a pound or two doesn't overall change the fact that I'm a slow climber. Sure, lighter bike with less travel makes for easier climbing and maybe I'm a couple of minutes faster but if it's at the expense of really enjoying the down, then I've always opted for the heavier, bigger travel bike. Gonna apply the same principles to my new touring setup and see how it goes as I'll definitely be prioritizing the down. I'm coming off frame bindings so I think anything will be an improvement over those! (except they were dead easy to use and had predictable release... at least for me).

Once you spend about 15 minutes familiarizing yourself with them in your living room, odds are good you'll find tech bindings easier to use than frame ones.

[kc_7777]

Read this thread lots and learned lots thanks. I’ve always had a “heavier” sidecountry set-up (R11s/Shifts) as I’m mostly a resort skier (kid in ski school all day) and am more focussed on the down. I’m not fast up. But I’m a decent skier.

I’m grumpy today also.

Rant coming....

I like that people are really passionate and techy, nerdy about bc gear weight, gear weight to body weight ratios etc.

I know light gear helps with travel speed up.

And I’m all for doing your own thing....whatever makes you happy. And I love gear so I’m always interested.

But if you are super techy about bc gear yet you can’t ski that well on the way down then please please lose that tiny bit of superiority in your tone, when you talk/lecture? about how light your gear is, or what your vertical speed climbing up is....when the rest of us poor dumbasses really have no idea....but we are decent skiers and we know we don’t look like an intermediate who is skiing pow for the first time. You know you ski like an intermediate....so lose the tone. Just tell us about the gear. Thx!

And ya same applies to mtn bikes. Fucking hate when the first thing people do after a ride is review their Strava for 15 minutes, looking for personal records. Instead of talking and shooting the shit with each other while having a beer. When riding with these people I intentionally stop to screw up their Strava. They get so stressed...even when it’s a beautiful day for a ride. They only care about their time. Ya wonder what their parents did to them as a kid? Yeesh! Again to each their own.

[XXX-er]

Interesting how this can *almost* apply to mountain biking. I've always prioritized the down because honestly saving a few grams or even a pound or two doesn't overall change the fact that I'm a slow climber. Sure, lighter bike with less travel makes for easier climbing and maybe I'm a couple of minutes faster but if it's at the expense of really enjoying the down, then I've always opted for the heavier, bigger travel bike. Gonna apply the same principles to my new touring setup and see how it goes as I'll definitely be prioritizing the down. I'm coming off frame bindings so I think anything will be an improvement over those! (except they were dead easy to use and had predictable release... at least for me).

My take is that all the frame bindings weigh at least 2 kilo, any tech binding will only be < half the weight of a frame binding which is the lions share of weight I can shed so i will put up with brakes and better heelpices over going super light

I still use frame bindings on piste or for early season rock skis and I can see how they slow me down compared to my long time touring buds on tech bindings

if yer a tech newby DO learn how to clear pins and toe pieces

[TheK12]

My take is that all the frame bindings weigh at least 2 kilo, any tech binding will only be < half the weight of a frame binding which is the lions share of weight I can shed so i will put up with brakes and better heelpices over going super light

I still use frame bindings on piste or for early season rock skis and I can see how they slow me down compared to my long time touring buds on tech bindings

if yer a tech newby DO learn how to clear pins and toe pieces

Yep, that's the plan. I'm going to ease back into touring with easy meadow skipping and low angle skiing to familiarize myself with skinning and skiing with tech bindings.

[galibier_numero_un]

... And ya same applies to mtn bikes. Fucking hate when the first thing people do after a ride is review their Strava for 15 minutes, looking for personal records. Instead of talking and shooting the shit with each other while having a beer. When riding with these people I intentionally stop to screw up their Strava. They get so stressed...even when it’s a beautiful day for a ride. They only care about their time. Ya wonder what their parents did to them as a kid? Yeesh! Again to each their own.

If this is your experience and it pisses you off, then you're choosing the wrong partners.

Whose fault is that?

[plugboots]

yet you can’t ski that well on the way down

You know you ski like an intermediate....so lose the tone.

Who in the actual fuck are you talking about? I've seen some posts from a few folks in this thread, and I think they ski pretty fucking well. Don't make grossly exaggerated generalizations. You must have no idea how most people ski in this thread.

[snowaddict91]

Who in the actual fuck are you talking about? I've seen some posts from a few folks in this thread, and I think they ski pretty fucking well. Don't make grossly exaggerated generalizations. You must have no idea how most people ski in this thread.

+1. I've skied plenty with someone in this thread who is posting lots of nerdy numbers and data, but he is definitely not the person you are describing.

[gregL]

4699 g. = Blizzard Rustler 11 (180), Atomic Shift, Lange XT Free LV (26.5)
3153 g. = Blizzard Zero G 105 (180), Atomic Backland Tour (no brake), Tecnica Zero G Tour Pro (26.5)
2477 g. = Blizzard Zero G 95 (171), Atomic Backland Tour (no brake), Dalbello Quantum Asolo (27.5)

Sold the 180 Rustler 11/Shift setup when none of my travel plans materialized this year. Replaced it last week with a Blizzard Zero G 85 (164). With Atomic Backland Tour (no brake), Dalbello Quantum Asolo Factory it's 2349 g. per side (add 205 g. for G3 Minimalist Glide skin). Sure, when it's super gloppy and sticky I ski like an intermediate on them, but today in nice corn they were $$$.

[kc_7777]

If this is your experience and it pisses you off, then you're choosing the wrong partners.
Whose fault is that?

Ya good point. That’s on me. Thought often times it’s someone who joins as part of a group you’re in.

[madriverfreeride]

I don’t have full set weights so I won’t be as fancy as everyone else here but:

183cm line vision 108 (1650ish grams) w/ radical 1 fts

Plus multiple other fat skis with cast freetours on them, use cast when hiking less than an hour or resort accessed stuff, vision 108s for everything else.

Have one more second ski kit for the cast which might go on any number of skis, most interesting option would be pon2oons, most versatile option would be my beloved rossi sickles.

Boots:
Hawx xtd w/ alpine liners for shorter tours or more demanding skiing, stock liner for long walks.

Nordica promachine w/ cast tech toe for sidecountry and or very short tours where I want an alpine boot for the down, done about an hour tour in them and it wasn’t the worst thing in the world but wasn’t great.

[Reformed]

184 Steeple 108 and Tecton ~2880 grams. Old ascension skins - heavy. OG Maestrale RS - heavy for what it is. Set up performs great in all conditions and shines in pow. Brutal overkill for long springtime walks in the sun. Boots are on their way out and lighter spring set up is being pieced together.

[MTPOW]

But if you are super techy about bc gear yet you can’t ski that well on the way down then please please lose that tiny bit of superiority in your tone, when you talk/lecture?

Moving fast and covering ground / skiing more in a day is pretty damn rad. My view is that being fast is at least as cool being a skillful skier. Probably cooler by the simple fact that you cover more ground in the mountains and mountains are cooler than any skier.

Being able to ski really well is a big advantage though because its way easier to get fit and move fast than it is to learn to ski well.

Which brand of superior am I? Hahaha

[XXX-er]

While I am pretty sure nobody here is as cool as I am, however they ski or bike is still fine with me ... people need to either go lighter or heavier

[gregL]

... people need to either go lighter or heavier

You got that right. There's always room for one more "perfect" setup in the garage, eh?

[Eluder]

Just picked up a pair Zero G 95's to add the mix. BD Helio 200's or MTN's hmmm....

[gregL]

Just picked up a pair Zero G 95's to add the mix. BD Helio 200's or MTN's hmmm....

Wanted to do Helio 145's on the Zero G 85's, would have saved another 150 grams, but the Backland Tours were sitting in my basement already and I'm not working.

[DGamms]

Those Helio 145s look awesome! Sort of wish I had put those on my light setup instead of Xenics. Oh well.

My larger point from a few posts ago was that listing the grams of your touring setup without putting it in context of the weight of the skier doesn’t make sense. It’s equivalent to saying you ski a 194cm length ski, but ignoring the fact you are 5’ 6” or 6’ 4”.

The 10% rule seems about right to me for a light touring setup (total dynamic gear weight of 2 skis/2 bindings/2 boots/2 skins/2 poles should equal about 10% of the total weight of the naked skier).

And by expressing this as a percentage, you guys can make much more apples-to-apples comparisons between setups. Without using the context of the skier’s individual weight, comparing the weights of multiple touring setups alone has much less relevance.

[gregL]

. . . by expressing this as a percentage, you guys can make much more apples-to-apples comparisons between setups. Without using the context of the skier’s individual weight, comparing the weights of multiple touring setups alone has much less relevance.

Fair enough, though I'm fatter than most of you at 77 kilos so it looks more impressive. The Zero G 85 setup with Dalbello Quantum Asolo Factory boots, Backland Tours and G3 Minimist Mix skins + Leki Aergonlite 2's (231 g. each) = 7.2 %. Winter setup with Zero G 105's, Backland Tours, G3 Alpinist skins and same poles = 9.5%

Edit to add: Rustler 11/Shift/Lange XT Free/G3 Alpinist+ Universal/Leki Aergonlite2 setup = 13.5% - I only skinned on it one day, and yeah, it was too heavy for my tastes.

[f=ma]

Moving fast and covering ground / skiing more in a day is pretty damn rad. My view is that being fast is at least as cool being a skillful skier. Probably cooler by the simple fact that you cover more ground in the mountains and mountains are cooler than any skier.

Being able to ski really well is a big advantage though because its way easier to get fit and move fast than it is to learn to ski well.

Which brand of superior am I? Hahaha

See my sig

[XXX-er]

we bought the 1st DPS wailers with the shiny top sheet in the narth back when you pay in advance and the skis show up 2 months later, some guy in the lift line asked if they were relly as good as they say ?

oh yeah man !

[Dshack89]

Fair enough, though I'm fatter than most of you at 77 kilos so it looks more impressive.

I dont feel like doing math, but at 215 lbs, I'm gonna have a ridiculously low % for my zero g 85 / helio 180 / pomoca race / alien rs setup. I'm not trying to be fast I'm just lazy.

[DGamms]

Fair enough, though I'm fatter than most of you at 77 kilos so it looks more impressive. The Zero G 85 setup with Dalbello Quantum Asolo Factory boots, Backland Tours and G3 Minimist Mix skins + Leki Aergonlite 2's (231 g. each) = 7.2 %. Winter setup with Zero G 105's, Backland Tours, G3 Alpinist skins and same poles = 9.5%

Edit to add: Rustler 11/Shift/Lange XT Free/G3 Alpinist+ Universal/Leki Aergonlite2 setup = 13.5% - I only skinned on it one day, and yeah, it was too heavy for my tastes.

Interesting data points! Did you feel the heaviest setup weighed enough that it was less fun overall to tour on?

I remember hauling a heavy setup on a four day hut trip in the Sawtooths a few years ago. I knew we were going to be skiing steep terrain, so I prioritized downhill performance over uphill weight/speed.

Lange XT 130 LVs (26.5) with Booster Strap and bontex shims: 1520 gm
Zipfit WC with custom footbeds: 780 gm
184cm 4FRNT Ravens: 1780 gm
Kingpin 13s: 770 gm
Kohla skins: 280 gm
Old BD 2-piece flicklock alu poles: 310 gm

The dynamic weight of my setup was 5440 gm per side! This put me at a total dynamic gear weight per kg of naked skier percentage of 16.5%.

The effort required to climb with this heavy of a setup (in addition to the increased effort of skinning due to the crappy ROM of the Zipfit liners) meant that by the time I got to the top of the face or couloir each day, I was so tired I couldn’t ski well on the descent.

All that to say: even for the ski tourer who is focused primarily on the descent, I think there is a point of diminishing returns for the downhill performance of your heavy gear. Especially on longer touring days/trips.

[mall walker]

All that to say: even for the ski tourer who is focused primarily on the descent, I think there is a point of diminishing returns for the downhill performance of your heavy gear. Especially on longer touring days/trips.

I'd certainly agree with the idea that, if you are spent when you get to the top, you aren't going to have fun skiing regardless of how heavy the gear is that you're skiing on. I would also say OTOH though that doing things like casual skimo races or just forcing yourself to transition immediately can help you get used to skiing with that tired feeling in your legs still, which is imo as much or more mental as physical. If you just get used to always skiing with burning sore legs your body eventually just tunes it out to a greater degree than you'd think, or that's been my experience anyway. I notice the fatigue after say, a 10k' day going up way more than coming down, even if the last descent is steep in bad snow etc., ymmv of course.

[GeezerSteve]

Fair enough, though I'm fatter than most of you at 77 kilos. . . .

Funny. I was 77kg in 8th grade. Last time I ran into you touring was a quite a few years ago going up Mt. Catherine after a big pow dump. You were fit as a fiddle, up front stomping track 50% of the time.