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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    441

    Knee-protective bindings settings?

    This is out of my wheelhouse so I figured I'd ask the "injury-experienced". Just had my second bad knee sprain/MCL scare after 1) a toe non-release 2) rough toe release. Both forced external rotation. Had the bindings checked (Salomon shift). Had the boot checked (Tecnica zeroG). No issues. So to protect myself I'm toying with the idea of dialing Down my toe din only to try to encourage lateral releases. Is this a thing? What do people do to protect against excessive lateral forces?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    The bindings will not protect you against soft tissue damage. Only against bone breakage. So you would probably need a din setting of 1 to protect your ligaments.

    Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huskydoc View Post
    Is this a thing?
    Absolutely it is.

    You can get to a level of skiing where the chart really doesn't work. (if you don't believe me, consider high end bindings going to DIN 16,17,18,20, 24, even 30....when the retail charts go to 12...12 for an enormous aggressive skier with a tiny foot, lol.)
    Racing, moguls, aggressive freeride....the chart will have you walking out of bindings....so at that point you have to figure out where the margin exists between adequate retention and adequate release. You've just had some feedback (you feel your system should have let you out) that says dial it down a bit. 1/2 a DIN, a full DIN....then you'll have a phase where you have to really watch what you do while you build trust in the system at that lower DIN, because sketchy prereleases are also dangerous.

    The exact correct number for a stronger-than-the-chart DIN can be tough to get to without scary things happening....your non-release falls and your terrifying pre-release falls.
    This is one of the (many) reasons a competition background in your teens helps, because you can kind of get some baselines figured out while you're young and durable.

    If you have trustworthy, thoughtful skiers of similar size and approach, it's useful sometimes to ask what they're skiing...but you have to approach all this with a lot of thought and care.

    Ideally you get to a DIN where you have a few releases that feel appropriate (which sucks, because shit has to go wrong, but....) but don't hurt you. At that stage you have a number you trust for that system...then you can carry that baseline forward, each time approaching new situations (binding, boot, adjustment, body changes, new season....whatever) with reduced trust and increased caution while you build up mileage and trust or have events that prompt you to adjust.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
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    All of what IAS said.

    Case in point: I got a new ACL, harvested from my quad tendon, in late april; also nibbled the meniscus a little and a partial MCL tear.

    My din should be about 7; in a regular season I prolly start at 8 and go up as I get my ski legs. Within 4-8 weeks I'm at about 10, maybe 11/12 if sketch terrain or deeeep snow.


    This season I started at 7 and have been going up a 1/2 turn every coupla weeks. Turned up to 9+ the other day and promptly wrecked. I kinda feel like my new leg pain is because I didn't come out easily enough. The repair feels good but other parts of the area got rattled. Big muscle strains.

    Finding the fine line is a challenge for a while. My concerns initially were a ski not coming off easily enough. That evolves into hoping it doesn't come off at speed.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Missoula, MT
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    Half a turn might be fine, but remember that the binding will not protect you from a slow backward twisting fall.
    YMMV
    PS, I don't know how old you are, but you're supposed to go down one if you're 50+ years old according to the DIN people.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  6. #6
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    Nov 2004
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    6 3 240, 42yrs, 326 bsl alpine
    My safety setting is usually 10. I will sometimes leave pivot 18s at 10 because of the outstanding elasticity. I had a really heinous wreck prereleasing out of 10 on a px14 straightlining the bottom of a zipperline a few years ago. I think a p18 would have held on at 10 there.
    More normal skiing moves to 11. I have a long history of Salomon drivers releasing me appropriately at 11-12.
    I will go as high as 13 on drivers. Usually 11 is my pivot 12/14 setting. I feel really confident in that setting on those after a lot of mileage.

    I have Tyrolia fr17s on SL race skis set at 11...never have released, have had weird “trying to snap newschool SL skis” crashes a couple of times...but the skis are so little and it’s on corduroy so I dunno... not the most confident in that setup. Writing this now makes me think I could knock those down a din.

    Have Marker Comp 20s on a 201 GS ski at 14 for skiing very fast....prayerfully.

  7. #7
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    Nov 2010
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    Sandy
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    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    6 3 240, 42yrs, 326 bsl alpine
    My safety setting is usually 10. I will sometimes leave pivot 18s at 10 because of the outstanding elasticity. I had a really heinous wreck prereleasing out of 10 on a px14 straightlining the bottom of a zipperline a few years ago. I think a p18 would have held on at 10 there.
    More normal skiing moves to 11. I have a long history of Salomon drivers releasing me appropriately at 11-12.
    I will go as high as 13 on drivers. Usually 11 is my pivot 12/14 setting. I feel really confident in that setting on those after a lot of mileage.

    I have Tyrolia fr17s on SL race skis set at 11...never have released, have had weird “trying to snap newschool SL skis” crashes a couple of times...but the skis are so little and it’s on corduroy so I dunno... not the most confident in that setup. Writing this now makes me think I could knock those down a din.

    Have Marker Comp 20s on a 201 GS ski at 14 for skiing very fast....prayerfully.
    You are making rethink that I've been skiing at 10 for years on pivots at 180lbs (but 305 bsl). Though you are a much smoother skier than I.
    I skied at 11-12 on pxs and markers for a while but had a scary fall where it felt like I was close to doing major knee damage and went down to 10 after that.

    I had a double heel eject last year on p18s set at 10 when I hit a very firm mogul on the backside with 6" of cream on top. I felt like I should have stayed in my bindings and considered bumping up my DIN after that but it was one of those moments that happened so fast I really don't know if I could have saved it or not.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    880
    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    6 3 240, 42yrs, 326 bsl alpine
    My safety setting is usually 10. I will sometimes leave pivot 18s at 10 because of the outstanding elasticity. I had a really heinous wreck prereleasing out of 10 on a px14 straightlining the bottom of a zipperline a few years ago. I think a p18 would have held on at 10 there.
    More normal skiing moves to 11. I have a long history of Salomon drivers releasing me appropriately at 11-12.
    I will go as high as 13 on drivers. Usually 11 is my pivot 12/14 setting. I feel really confident in that setting on those after a lot of mileage.

    I have Tyrolia fr17s on SL race skis set at 11...never have released, have had weird “trying to snap newschool SL skis” crashes a couple of times...but the skis are so little and it’s on corduroy so I dunno... not the most confident in that setup. Writing this now makes me think I could knock those down a din.

    Have Marker Comp 20s on a 201 GS ski at 14 for skiing very fast....prayerfully.
    Gold!!!

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  9. #9
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    Nov 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Half a turn might be fine, but remember that the binding will not protect you from a slow backward twisting fall.
    YMMV
    PS, I don't know how old you are, but you're supposed to go down one if you're 50+ years old according to the DIN people.
    Hell, I had to google that shit to see what my number is. I haven't gone by that in years, I adjust them by how I feel about myself, and skiing at the time.
    Until last april, when I proved your first statement, I bet my skis had not seen a 7 in 30 years. Which felt awkward turning them down last Fall.
    ~~~~~~~~~~
    I agree that a burlier clamp set at the same din is a preferred setup.

    With an appropriate application of physics, that ski can pop off way easier than ya think - high speed chatter walkouts to hidden bump megaflex DHRs.
    Like me last week as well...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowaddict91 View Post
    You are making rethink that I've been skiing at 10 for years on pivots at 180lbs (but 305 bsl). Though you are a much smoother skier than I.
    You’re dealing with a lot more variable snow, and situations where losing a ski is catastrophic, and you’re actually strong and in shape.
    I dunno, you know where you need to be.

  11. #11
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    Nov 2010
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    Knee-protective bindings settings?

    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    You’re dealing with a lot more variable snow, and situations where losing a ski is catastrophic, and you’re actually strong and in shape.
    I dunno, you know where you need to be.
    It also speaks to the elasticity of a pivot heel.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Missoula, MT
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    20,625
    9.
    9 is the number, brah.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    11
    Given the nature of the discussion... I haven't had any knee injury yet, but I have had some muscle imbalance in my thigh, hip flexor, etc. Anybody have any exercises that are good for knee stability/strength?

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