In Praise of Inexpensive (relatively) (and GOOD) Liquor

[evasive_MT]

good recommendations. I agree that Glenlivet is pretty bland. A friend gifted me a Macallan 12 Double Cask, and I’d say that’s a great beginner scotch, especially if you’ve started out with American whiskey. Macallan is a classic, but the house style of big sherry notes is very Sinatra and Cadillacs- especially the 18. I have to be in the right mood. The Double Cask really tones down the sherry. I like it a lot (for something that’s not an Islay).

[Dave Minion]

Hoi! any o' yous try'd Talisker Dark Storm?
I think it's mainly in duty free sales, but it smokes the normal Storm and the 10 year. I love the flavour profile, outstanding, not budget though.

For a summertime single malt, Craigellachie 13yr is worth a try, but not budget either.

For budget whiskies, can't go wrong with Famous Grouse and the FG Smoky black versions. Macallan and Highland park are in the FG, Islay blend for the Smoky black.

[Grange]

I have not tried Talisker Dark Storm. I was going to look for it on my vacation, but the trip was cancelled so I didn't get the chance. I've wanted to try it for quite a while, but have been able to find it.

I did recently pick up Talisker Distillers Edition however and it is fantastic. It is a 10 yr aged Talisker double matured in Amoroso casks. It definitely is not an inexpensive liquor, but for me it was worth the cost.

[MontuckyFried]

don't listen to this malarkey, just man up and embrace the peat. speysides are for people who like to talk about their feelings and parse the nuance between "plum" and "peach" flavors. try mixing with that bottle of storm - like make an oldfashioned, but use the storm instead of whatever bourbon.

if you want a real peat monster for cheap, check out "Old Finlaggan" at Trader Joe's. It's like $20. and a serious, serious peat bomb - a lot of scotch experts think that it's a whitelabeled Laguvulin 6 or a young Laphroaig. makes the storm seem like a tempest in a teacup compared to the raging north atlantic.

That's hilarious. I definitely don't want a bland Scotch. I LIKE the peat and brine flavors that the Storm provides, but as a rookie they were a bit too much for my beginner taste. Kinda like when microbrewers go a little too bonkers with the hoppiness of an IPA. Perhaps what I like is something a bit more balanced or nuanced.

i mean yeah but it's also unrealistic to compare storm to the nicer taliskers. it's $30 or whatever. for $30, it's great. is it as complex as talisker18? jesus no. is it as fruity as talisker distillers? does the pope shit in the woods?

compared to other widely available $30 speciality scotches, it's a decent value. monkey shoulder or the aforementioned old finlaggan are the only ones that comes close IMO, and they're both very different (monkey is less peaty, while old finalaggan is significantly more peaty). you could have a decent spread of scotch with those three bottles on your bar.

$30?! Where?! I spent like $65.
I'll have to check your other recommendations out.

monkey shoulder is just a good all arounder - sweet, inoffensive, no weird off flavors. if you want something louder/stronger there are definitely better choices. i think it's good "bar scotch" for people who don't really like scotch at all.

Not really looking for a Scotch that's not for Scotch people. Haha. I want those elements that makes a good Scotch, well... Scotch.

Talisker is more like briny peat than smoky peat like Ardbeg or laphaoig to me. I do agree with others that Talisker is not a scotch I'd recommend for a scotch novice. It is my favorite distillery, but for a novice I'd recommend something like Aberfeldy 12, Glenfiddich 12 or 14, or even Glenmorange 10 as these are fairly friendly. I'm not the biggest fan of Glenlivet 12 as I find it boring, but it is another easy drinking scotch. If you want to ease you way into peat then Highland Park 12 or Oban Little Bay or 14 are good starting points, but it certainly would call these inexpensive.

I've recommended scotch that is sherry cask aged or finished for bourbon lovers as these whiskys seem to be closer to the sweeter notes of bourbon.

Some great recs to check out. I'll start looking into those after I polish off my bottle of Storm. Will everything seem like weak sauce after jumping off with that? Hahaha.

For reference, my benchmark is Johnie Walker Blue Label. Had some a couple times and was always supremely happy with the pour. Since that's obviously way out of my price range these days, in the spirit of the whole intent of this thread, I'd love to find something along those flavor notes and smoothness but as cheap as possible. Kind of like the Shevkoff brandy I mentioned earlier in this thread. It's $20 but compares nicely to stuff literally 100x it's price.

[MontuckyFried]

Now on the OTHER side of the spectrum, let's talk rum.

My jam lately has been El Dorado 12.
https://theeldoradorum.com/blended-rums/12-year-old

I usually pay around $28 and WOW this stuff seems top shelf. A fantastic rum to sip on neat but of course enjoy it however you like. Chilled, on ice, doesn't matter. This is a superb rum IMO. Every time I drink it I can't believe it doesn't cost twice as much.

One of the reasons I actually have really come to appreciate rums. Not only do I enjoy the taste of a good rum, but you can start exploring decent ones between $10-20. Spend north of 20 or 30 bucks and you start getting into the really good stuff. WAY cheaper to explore than Scotch.

[Danno]

If talking rum, some friends of mine make this stuff, it's very good, made in a cool small town in Colorado, got to give it a plug:

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

They grow sugar cane in Colorado?

[bennymac]

The catch-22 of scotch is that if you are new to it and haven’t yet fully acquired the taste you tend to go for the cheaper bottle first to try it out - which often leaves you with the younger, stronger flavors and sometimes even with not that great at all scotch.

Whereas the very expensive 18-21yo scotch is often mellower and smoother and an easier introduction - but few scotch rookies are gonna pay $200+ for a bottle for something they’re not sure they like yet.

I’m not saying age of scotch denotes everything - just making general statements as there are so many other factors. But getting into scotch by going with Talisker or other peaty scotches is somewhat equivalent to learning to ski by taking the tram to the top with rear entry boots and rental skis. It will work though. And if you already like $30 peaty scotch you are well on your way.

[irul&ublo]

If you are just starting on scotch, a high quality blend like Black Label is worth a shot.

[Meadow Skipper]

Glenmorangie 10 is a great place to start with scotch.

[irul&ublo]

Balvenie Double Wood is a good one too. Not peaty, decent price

[tgapp]

If talking rum, some friends of mine make this stuff, it's very good, made in a cool small town in Colorado, got to give it a plug:

This looks amazing, I love craft rum. Will definitely keep an eye out the next time I'm in Colorado.

As for other rum recommendations, I can't speak highly enough of Plantation Pineapple rum. For $30 it's just incredible - sweet without being cloying, and remarkably complex and satisfying for something that conjures up images of solo cups and frat parties. Makes for an amazing vieux carré (subbing out the cognac).

My other cheap rum go-to is Barbencourt 8 (technically a rhum). Great as a substitute for bourbon in most cocktails. Love me a rum old fashioned.



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[Danno]

They grow sugar cane in Colorado?

Louisiana sugar cane, distilled in Colorado.

This looks amazing, I love craft rum. Will definitely keep an eye out the next time I'm in Colorado.

It's available outside of Colorado: https://www.montanyarum.com/where-to-buy But of course there is something cooler about buying it when local.

[Brownski]

If you are just starting on scotch, a high quality blend like Black Label is worth a shot.

This is good advice. You don’t see it everywhere but Ballantine Finest is a very high quality but inexpensive blend. If you’re into the smoke but still a newby, Chivas 12 yr is known as a slightly smoky blend.

[tgapp]

The catch-22 of scotch is that if you are new to it and haven’t yet fully acquired the taste you tend to go for the cheaper bottle first to try it out - which often leaves you with the younger, stronger flavors and sometimes even with not that great at all scotch.

Whereas the very expensive 18-21yo scotch is often mellower and smoother and an easier introduction - but few scotch rookies are gonna pay $200+ for a bottle for something they’re not sure they like yet.

I’m not saying age of scotch denotes everything - just making general statements as there are so many other factors. But getting into scotch by going with Talisker or other peaty scotches is somewhat equivalent to learning to ski by taking the tram to the top with rear entry boots and rental skis. It will work though. And if you already like $30 peaty scotch you are well on your way.

I agree with this quite a bit; however; I feel like the explosion in demand for scotch has forced distillers to start coming up with absolutely incredible Non Age Statement scotches (NAS). If I were to try and introduce a scotchnoob, I would use NAS scotches almost exclusively - they're the best value on the market right now, so long as you don't care about the number on the bottle. People always knock young whiskey because it's too "on the nose" (strong wood flavors, spice, lack of harmony), but when balanced with older whiskey, it can be a really harmonious blend.

Another good example of this from the world of rye whiskey (and keeping with the theme of the thread) is Sazerac Rye whiskey. I believe it's 80% 6 year and 20% 18year, but it is a NAS whiskey that is really incredible, and usually like $26 a bottle. Rittenhouse and Sazerac are constantly competing for the coveted spot of the house rye mixing whiskey.

My real jam is barrel strength, ex-sherry casked NAS highlands and islays though...Talisker Distiller's (technically a NAS, though it is a base of the 10yr), Ardbeg Corryvreckan/Uigedal, Aberlour Abunadh, the list goes on. Somehow the combination of fruit and peat is just incredible. Great values to be had, too - sure, $90 a bottle is a lot, but when compared to the MacCallan 25's, Talisker 18, Glenmorangie 18s of the world, they're a downright bargain.

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[tgapp]

Louisiana sugar cane, distilled in Colorado.



It's available outside of Colorado: https://www.montanyarum.com/where-to-buy But of course there is something cooler about buying it when local.

I live in fucking Utah. Nothing is available here. All you mags with decent liquor selections can go fuck yourselves.

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[Grange]

If you are just starting on scotch, a high quality blend like Black Label is worth a shot.

That is a decent scotch. It is a big leap over JW Red.

Balvenie Double Wood is a good one too. Not peaty, decent price

I like the double wood, but their single barrel is my go to when I just want a whisky. There isn't anything fancy to it, but it is damn fine whisky and one of my favorites.

[bennymac]

I agree with this quite a bit; however; I feel like the explosion in demand for scotch has forced distillers to start coming up with absolutely incredible Non Age Statement scotches (NAS). If I were to try and introduce a scotchnoob, I would use NAS scotches almost exclusively - they're the best value on the market right now, so long as you don't care about the number on the bottle. People always knock young whiskey because it's too "on the nose" (strong wood flavors, spice, lack of harmony), but when balanced with older whiskey, it can be a really harmonious blend.

Another good example of this from the world of rye whiskey (and keeping with the theme of the thread) is Sazerac Rye whiskey. I believe it's 80% 6 year and 20% 18year, but it is a NAS whiskey that is really incredible, and usually like $26 a bottle. Rittenhouse and Sazerac are constantly competing for the coveted spot of the house rye mixing whiskey.

My real jam is barrel strength, ex-sherry casked NAS highlands and islays though...Talisker Distiller's (technically a NAS, though it is a base of the 10yr), Ardbeg Corryvreckan/Uigedal, Aberlour Abunadh, the list goes on. Somehow the combination of fruit and peat is just incredible. Great values to be had, too - sure, $90 a bottle is a lot, but when compared to the MacCallan 25's, Talisker 18, Glenmorangie 18s of the world, they're a downright bargain.

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agree 100%. It's a different conversation when talking with scotch noobs vs scotch veterans who have sorted out all the different nuances in their head. I try to keep it simple because noobs (like we all were once) get fixated on age statements, get told by snobs to ignore blended scotch as inferior, get told a single malt is the best etc. And when they see the price of Macallan 18 they instead reach for a cheap single malt to try it out - which will likely be young, strong, potentially harsh, and not worth the money versus the other options that they were erroneously told to avoid.

Truth is even your purest single malt (if not from a single cask) is a "blend" - just not a "blend of grain whiskies" like the branding term blended.

Even a branded 6 year old single malt will likely contain some older whiskey from the same distillery mixed in to balance the taste (again not talking about single cask bottles here). So it's blended but not a blended whiskey.

Uigedal has been my benchmark since I first fell in love with it a decade ago. That stuff is mana from heaven.

[MontuckyFried]

Dammit. You guys are really inspiring me to get into Scotch more. Too bad it would cost me like a grand to try out all of your excellent suggestions.

I just saw that my local bodega has a smaller 200 mL bottle of JW Blue for a much more doable price than the 750 mL. Worth it?

Tempted to make a quick run down to Mexico to stock my bar for less than half the price on all this stuff. Lol.


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[bennymac]

my advice for what it's worth

1. it doesn't have to be expensive to be good

2. just because it's expensive doesn't mean you will enjoy it or that it is any good - in fact in a lot of cases a 30 year old scotch is gonna be more enjoyable than a 50 year old scotch - at some point the scotch is gonna start losing flavor and intensity - depends on a number of factors but the value of super old scotch is the rarity and not always some super amazing taste (similar to wine)

3. what you enjoy now may change in the future - that's part of the fun

4. "single malt scotch" can be amazing or not - but it is not some ultra-special, can do no wrong, put it on a pedestal above all else alcohol - and if it's coming from a big distillery it's manufactured like a can of pepsi - not saying there is anything wrong with that - but you'll be lead to believe that it's made by an old man on a Scottish island toiling away at a still while breathing in the salt air

5. *drink what you like*. I can't emphasize this enough. Put a drop of water in your scotch if you want (it changes the taste and sometimes improves it). Put 10 drops in if you want. Put ice in it if you want. Add it to cola or gingerale if you want. It's your drink, your money, and it's your life. There shouldn't be any rules and any snobbery. If someone tells you that a drop of water dilutes the scotch too much feel free to laugh at them. It's literally a drop of water. The posturing that goes on with scotch is hilarious - like they want their 46% alcohol scotch and 45.8% won't do for these hard men. Or that putting Macallan in gingerale is some travesty. Shit they sell 10 million bottles a year - we're not talking about wasting some ancient relic from prehistoric times.

Ask them how much water they think is added to the scotch at the distillery at the time of bottling....I bet they won't have an answer. Then ask them how do the distilleries get each and every single bottle over the years to come out exactly at 46% ABV (or whatever level they are aiming for).......

[Meadow Skipper]

^ Good. Also, do some research on Islay vs Highlands vs Speyside etc. It makes a difference.

[bennymac]

^ Good. Also, do some research on Islay vs Highlands vs Speyside etc. It makes a difference.

It’s true - that’s a good place to start with regards to single malt scotch regions (plus lowlands - some people also divide into Islands region and Campbelton region etc). You can learn some generalities using these parameters.

I’ve also had amazing peated Speyside scotch and amazing non-peated Islay scotch so the rabbit hole gets complicated beyond just the regions. There are no rules with regards to how a scotch from a particular region is required to be made or taste.

Ultimately it comes down to the specifics of the individual bottle in front of you.

[Tri-Ungulate]

For the Scotch aficionados, we klueless n00bs need a cheat card that goes like:
CheapScotch tasteslike (or intro to) ExpensiveScotch,
i.e. using examples above - say,

Old Finlaggin = Lagavulin

etc.

I know it's far more nuanced than that, but at least as a baseline for the Scotch for Dummies crowd.

[tgapp]

For the Scotch aficionados, we klueless n00bs need a cheat card that goes like:
CheapScotch tasteslike (or intro to) ExpensiveScotch,
i.e. using examples above - say,

Old Finlaggin = Lagavulin

etc.

I know it's far more nuanced than that, but at least as a baseline for the Scotch for Dummies crowd.

hm yeah that's a really good idea but i'm not sure i'm capable of putting something like that together. but honestly, age changes malt so much that while "young talisker" (storm etc) has a lot in common with "old talisker" (18), it's difficult to draw direct parallels - younger whiskeys are hot and flavorful, older tend to be balanced and subdued.

what is true though is that each distillery (for the most part) has a somewhat similar flavor profile (talisker is brine, maccallan/glenmorangie are balanced, laphroaig is medicinal peat, ardbeg is smokey peat), so if you find a distillery you like, chances are there will be a common denominator between all bottles of that distillery.

I’ve also had amazing peated Speyside scotch and amazing non-peated Islay scotch so the rabbit hole gets complicated beyond just the regions. There are no rules with regards to how a scotch from a particular region is required to be made or taste.

getting too into regions/terroir is a little like the tail wagging the dog, but it is helpful in a general sense. if i'm in a bar and i see a scotch list i am unfamiliar with but i tell the bartender i like sherry-casked islays, that's a pretty damn specific flavor profile. but yeah, the map is not the territory.

*drink what you like*. I can't emphasize this enough. Put a drop of water in your scotch if you want (it changes the taste and sometimes improves it). Put 10 drops in if you want. Put ice in it if you want. Add it to cola or gingerale if you want. It's your drink, your money, and it's your life. There shouldn't be any rules and any snobbery. If someone tells you that a drop of water dilutes the scotch too much feel free to laugh at them. It's literally a drop of water. The posturing that goes on with scotch is hilarious - like they want their 46% alcohol scotch and 45.8% won't do for these hard men. Or that putting Macallan in gingerale is some travesty. Shit they sell 10 million bottles a year - we're not talking about wasting some ancient relic from prehistoric times.

yeah yeah okay i agree, it's a globally available product and there's nothing "special" about it; these flavors are carefully crafted (re: engineered) to be consistent, and you can do what you want with it. there are no rules, we're all adults, do what makes you happy because we're all gonna die anyway. you want your JW BL in diet coke? drink yourself silly mate!

THAT BEING SAID - part of the beauty of this (or any other flavor based pursuit) is that you get what you put into it, and while there is no moral imperative - no right way/wrong way, there are depths of complexity and nuance to scotch (and whiskey or even alcohol in general) that are best explored within certain parameters. meaning - there is somewhat of a (soft) hierarchy of aesthetic. otherwise, your kid's 3rd grade drawings would be hanging on the walls of the Louvre and no one would give a fuck who damien hirst is.

experimenting around with how you like your whiskey is totally a part of that exploratory journey, and sure, if in the long run you end up settling with the old diet coke strategy, that's fine, but at first you should (i think) learn to sit with and appreciate the aesthetic of the thing by itself, on it's own merits. then start adding water, see how that changes things. maybe try making some ultra classic cocktails with it - that's always really cool, and it lets you play around with how the flavors of whatever whiskey intersect with other flavors.

it's a little like coffee, i guess. i'm a huge coffee nerd, and when people say "i can't have my coffee without cream and sugar", i know that they either 1. have really bad coffee, 2. don't really like coffee, or 3. don't really know how to taste coffee. i imagine even cardboard would taste good with enough cream and sugar.

Uigedal has been my benchmark since I first fell in love with it a decade ago. That stuff is mana from heaven.

see this here tells me we could be friends. i'm a corryvreckan guy myself, but they're both just different sides of the same coin - i would pick up (and cherish) either in a heartbeat. sadly, both bottles are increasingly hard to find. it's an absolute shame.

Dammit. You guys are really inspiring me to get into Scotch more. Too bad it would cost me like a grand to try out all of your excellent suggestions.

I just saw that my local bodega has a smaller 200 mL bottle of JW Blue for a much more doable price than the 750 mL. Worth it?

honestly i don't think so, but that's just one man's opinion. JW BL is worth trying at a bar, sure, but i would not recommend that bottle outright. IMO, it's like the non scotch-drinker's scotch. people who like it always say "it's so smooth", and while they are right, i don't want my whiskey pretending to be anything it's not. smoothness is not the end-all be-all of culinary experiences. but - that's just me, i'm not really a fan of most blended scotch. if i want something sweet/inoffensive, i'll drink a highland usually.

if i wanted to snag a nice "middle ground" bottle of scotch, my recommendation would be Macallan 10/12, Glenmorangie 10, Glenlivet 12, or Balvenie doublewood. my preference is the first two, but others like the latter two just as much. depends on what you're looking for, i guess, but macallan IMO is the most perfect "scotch tasting scotch" i could think of for a novice.

[Cruiser]

Craigellachie 17 was the single best whiskey I remember tasting in 2018. For Speyside fans, I'm not sure how you could do much better without dropping $$$.