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  1. #1
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    Increasing tech binding ramp angle

    Lots of past thoughts and posts about toe shims to decrease ramp angle. However with new tech bindings with lower ramps has anyone made the change to increase?

    I have marker alpinist which are 2mm delta so pretty flat. I always kind of feel in the back seat and I am considering shimming to increase it. 2mm is pretty much alpine but I wonder if my touring boots are just a little more upright than my resort boots.

    Has anyone improved the feel of their tech bindings by increasing the ramp or am I clutching at straws???

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Has anyone improved the feel of their tech bindings by increasing the ramp or am I clutching at straws???
    Indirectly related: In the old days, some people increased ramp angle of Fritschi frame bindings, some of which actually had zero or even negative ramp angle out of the box. It was common to omit the decorative/non-functional plate under the toe. I shimmed the heel of a few for buds who wanted more ramp angle.

  3. #3
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    I happen to fall into the camp of preferring less ramp, so I'm stoked that there are more options that I don't have to fuck around with and shim, but I can't think of any reason you couldn't go the other way if that's your preference. I've done countless toe shims without issue.

  4. #4
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    What boots? Something with a flat sole like the Cochise can feel very upright in a tech binding, but a 0G Tour or other full-rocker boot will be pitched forward more because the toe sockets are higher in relation to the ball of your foot.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    What boots? Something with a flat sole like the Cochise can feel very upright in a tech binding, but a 0G Tour or other full-rocker boot will be pitched forward more because the toe sockets are higher in relation to the ball of your foot.
    Zero G Tour Pro with the lean tab set to 13 but we all know that does little.

    Alpine boots are Cochise 130 DYN which are apparently 12.5.

    I guess Iíll put 1 foot in each boot and click into respective skis and see how they feel.

  6. #6
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    Curious what anyone would want more ramp?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dane1 View Post
    Curious what anyone would want more ramp?
    As I said. I feel backseat allot. I mean every single binding in the world comes with some ramp.

  8. #8
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    It's a personal thing. My bud who has been skiing for nearly 60 years likes 10-15 mm ramp on all his skis.

  9. #9
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    I subscribe to the theory that more ramp = more backseat skiing, not less.

    https://skimo.co/pin-heights

  10. #10
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    yes, I added a 3mm lift to the heel of my kingpins to feel balanced.

    just needed to find longer screws at local shop


  11. #11
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    You can and many do ski tech bindings with -0- ramp.

    Skimo Co. has a list but by a mix and match of heels and toes you can get even closer to -0- ramp. -0- ramp seems to be a good thing to me both on skin tracks and skiing. Back seat? I'd first look at where your skis are mounted and then at technique.

    More than you'll ever want to know about ramp delta.

    https://coldthistle.blogspot.com/201...part.html#more
    Last edited by Dane1; 02-23-2020 at 12:18 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dane1 View Post
    You can and many do ski tech bindings with -0- ramp.

    Skimo Co. has a list but by a mix and match of heels and toes you can get even closer to -0- ramp. -0- ramp seems to be a good thing to me both on skin tracks and skiing. Back seat? I'd first look at where your skis are mounted and then at technique.

    More than you'll ever want to know about ramp delta.

    https://coldthistle.blogspot.com/201...part.html#more
    Yeah. I know. I get all that. I have no problem until I ski tech setup. I mess with mount point allot on my alpine bindings as I use marker demos. My technique is fine. Iím just trying to pinpoint why the transition to tech is so weird.

    Not necessarily backseat but thatís the closest I can come to describe it. More like it makes me like an intermediate skier haha!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    I subscribe to the theory that more ramp = more backseat skiing, not less.
    X2, but if a boot is too upright, the outside ski will feel like gets too far ahead of your knee at the end of turns when you're trying to spring off the tail.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    X2, but if a boot is too upright, the outside ski will feel like gets too far ahead of your knee at the end of turns when you're trying to spring off the tail.
    Could be it. Iíll stick the spoiler back in my zero gís on the back of the liner. I took it out when I went from race fx to tour wrap.

  15. #15
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    My apologies. With a +2 delta, likely boot or mount.

  16. #16
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    Some people are more affected by ramp changes than others. I was able to ski OK switching between STH (+6mm) and Plum Guide (+18mm) and never raised the toes like most of my friends. I ski way better with the MTN @ +8mm.

    It is the total ramp of the ski, boot and binding that matters. A good starting point might be to download a digital level app for your phone and stick it in both your alpine setup and touring setup with liners out (kind of hard to find a place that accurately reflects the overall interior ramp, as the bootboard is not totally flat). Forward lean is a different but often related variable, but I usually try to match that if possible as well.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    A good starting point might be to download a digital level app for your phone and stick it in both your alpine setup and touring setup with liners out (kind of hard to find a place that accurately reflects the overall interior ramp, as the bootboard is not totally flat). Forward lean is a different but often related variable, but I usually try to match that if possible as well.
    I'd try a carpenter's square for that. It would average the bootboard, and you could take the angle measurement on the vertical side.

  18. #18
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    Everybody will have their own preference and what works best for them - there is no universal right or wrong. Like others in the thread, I prefer a bit more ramp angle. I see no reason why you couldn't shim the heel to get the desired increase you're looking for. You could also shim the heel and add a spoiler to your boots if you'd like some more forward lean. This combo might be too much, but removing a spoiler is easy and can be done throughout the day.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    Indirectly related: In the old days, some people increased ramp angle of Fritschi frame bindings, some of which actually had zero or even negative ramp angle out of the box. It was common to omit the decorative/non-functional plate under the toe. I shimmed the heel of a few for buds who wanted more ramp angle.
    The the vulcan especialy has that wonderful hit-the-brick-wall stiffness so I removed the toe shim on the FR+ ,IME its just enough to get the boot flex started more easily, Its cheap n easy to do BUT anybody contemplating this mod
    should be sure removing the plastic shim does not make the screws too long / dimple the bases

    A ski tech buddy looked at my stance while fiddling with boots (Salomon wave 8.0) he told me I had too much forward lean so I asked how he could tell, simple yer ass sticks out, if yer ass sticks out your weight will be back. My chicken legs in a stock boot that might have been a size too big means the shin was too far forward all the time so I shimmed the toe to get less forward lean to stand taller which of course also changed Delta but IME decreasing forward lean to be more centered /uprightwas more noticable/positive than the effect of the increased delta, I got rid of the Salomons long ago and they are probably the wrong boot for my foot, the Dalbello's seem to wok fine as-is in a stock alpine binding

    As for AT applications I shimmed the FR+ (black n red ) but i've used RAD1/ Verticals/ Barons as-is, they seem to do down hill fine so i do not seem to be sensitive to changes in Delta in site of having a small BSL which means changes would affect me more a guy using boots with a big BSL

    so what I know is that ski boots can have too much forward lean BUT ski boots can also be too upright
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    I'd try a carpenter's square for that. It would average the bootboard, and you could take the angle measurement on the vertical side.
    Not exactly, most bootboards are lower at the ball of foot and the mild arch could interfere . . .

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Some people are more affected by ramp changes than others. I was able to ski OK switching between STH (+6mm) and Plum Guide (+18mm) and never raised the toes like most of my friends. I ski way better with the MTN @ +8mm.

    It is the total ramp of the ski, boot and binding that matters. A good starting point might be to download a digital level app for your phone and stick it in both your alpine setup and touring setup with liners out (kind of hard to find a place that accurately reflects the overall interior ramp, as the bootboard is not totally flat). Forward lean is a different but often related variable, but I usually try to match that if possible as well.
    Great idea thanks!

  22. #22
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    So many variables to tune...took me a decade to figure it all out...but i'm there and results are skis/boots/bindings all work in synergy so that the artificial things attached to my legs and feet feel like extensions of the body in more skiing contexts than ever before.

    Does this go on the O.SKI.D. thread?

    Bingding ramp angle: One trick I used extensively to test different binding ramp angle positions on my dynafit tlt tourlites and vertical st's was:

    On nicely groomed, soft snow lower angle ski hill runs:

    Lock the toes and set heel pieces to tour mode and stack plastic spacers attached with double sided carpet tape to the flat forward extension of heelpiece baseplate on the st's (the little taps that extend forward from the turret of all of mine have busted off), or, the ski topsheet with the tlt's to incrementally, systematically test and refine the optimum binding ramp angle. Ski with boots buckled, totally loose in the cuff and try everything in between. Add and remove various thicknesses of ghetto spoilers to roughly tweak boot forward lean after changing binding ramp angle with the heel spacers. It's really quite fun to play around with it all and get a general feel for what works best for getting to a setting that allows for natural, intuitive turn initiation and tip to tail balance feeling on skis.

    Goes without saying, try not to fall on yer face or wreck yer knees, it's a risk/reward equation to calculate.

    Of course, that's just one variable to test in concert with dicking around with in boot ramp/delta (whatever it's called), boot forward lean, boot forward flex, cuff alignment, adding/subtracting tip and tail xtensions from skis, spooning the tip area base edges, bending custom rocker into skis so that the front rocker contact point works in synergy with all the other variables tweaked to create a net benefit effect, etc....
    Master of mediocrity.

  23. #23
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    Don't recall if it's been said yet or not, but playing with shims is a lot easier if you're using inserts. Might be worth it to insert your heels and buy a bunch of fasteners and shim material and play around with it.

    Sent from my SM-A505W using Tapatalk
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty_J View Post
    Don't recall if it's been said yet or not, but playing with shims is a lot easier if you're using inserts. Might be worth it to insert your heels and buy a bunch of fasteners and shim material and play around with it.

    Sent from my SM-A505W using Tapatalk
    This is a great idea.

  25. #25
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    I would try an insole in the boot to increase ramp. I have an old pair of cork custom insoles and the heel is quite tall.

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