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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huskydoc View Post
    1. Tech talk.
    2. What exactly are you asking? You're wandering around with an airbag worrying about lightweight axes? Water? If you don't need it don't bring it.
    3. Dude's article covers some good stuff but his point on pack weight, particularly in the context of minimalist features, is stupid. If you're lacking on a place to Stow X because you wanted to save a few hundred grams, and the extra hassle costs you Y time in transitioning and contaminates your dry stuff looking for it, then it's a shitty trade off. I could take a burlap sack, sew on some runners, and it'd be very light weight. It would also suck a lot. Save weight on your feet. Save weight on your tools. A well-featured, versatile pack is worth the weight. Airbag or not.
    Yep, and one that carries skis and boots well

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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peruvian View Post
    I like this idea. What bladder are you using? Something like this?

    Attachment 316548

    How is that the drink from? Seem like it would be prone to spilling all over your face unless itís held ďjust soĒ.
    These are good, easy to drink from, but somewhat fragile. I go thru at least a couple a year

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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2clue View Post
    Let me guess, you boot up couloirs without your helmet on also?
    I do

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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootenayskier View Post
    ...anyone implying theyíre essential is just revealing their fear and ignorance.
    Agreed, to imply they are essential would be foolish. You know whatís just as foolish, other than not having a healthy fear anytime you step into the backcountry? To imply there will never be a situation where the use of an airbag pack could save someoneís life, even when a skier/rider makes the best, most responsible decisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamdirt View Post
    Maybe 1 person of 25+ or so I tour/ sled and shred with uses one.
    I donít know....Iíve seen an awful lot of videos of pro riders who are sporting airbag packs in the backcountry. Donít most (all) of the riders on the FWT wear them? Personal decisions, I get it, but you canít dispute that a lot of knowledgeable, careful people are using them.

    Hey, I donít ski with one either, but not because I donít think they could be useful. For me itís a cost-benefit decision. The amount of days I spend in the backcountry, combined with my conservative decision making, makes me comfortable with my personal choice not to lay out the $$ and ski with one.....but if money were no object you bet Iíd add that layer of extra insurance.

    Your decision not to use one because you, or any skier who knows what he or she is doing, can mitigate 100% of risk in the backcountry.....well, thatís just pure hubris.

    Seriously, you guys seem like walking heuristic traps. Stay safe out there.

  5. #55
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    I have an airbag, haven't used it in 4 years.
    I think it depends where you're skiing.
    Continental climate, sure. But i ski in a Maritime climate.

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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTG4 View Post
    Agreed, to imply they are essential would be foolish. You know whatís just as foolish, other than not having a healthy fear anytime you step into the backcountry? To imply there will never be a situation where the use of an airbag pack could save someoneís life, even when a skier/rider makes the best, most responsible decisions.



    I donít know....Iíve seen an awful lot of videos of pro riders who are sporting airbag packs in the backcountry. Donít most (all) of the riders on the FWT wear them? Personal decisions, I get it, but you canít dispute that a lot of knowledgeable, careful people are using them.

    Hey, I donít ski with one either, but not because I donít think they could be useful. For me itís a cost-benefit decision. The amount of days I spend in the backcountry, combined with my conservative decision making, makes me comfortable with my personal choice not to lay out the $$ and ski with one.....but if money were no object you bet Iíd add that layer of extra insurance.

    Your decision not to use one because you, or any skier who knows what he or she is doing, can mitigate 100% of risk in the backcountry.....well, thatís just pure hubris.

    Seriously, you guys seem like walking heuristic traps. Stay safe out there.
    In keeping with this thread, I suggest itís also possible to make sensible weight:benefit calculations for everything we take ski touring. I donít accept that risk is exempt from these calculations, and that if 100% certainty is your standard, then ski touring probably isnít the game for you.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootenayskier View Post
    In keeping with this thread, I suggest itís also possible to make sensible weight:benefit calculations for everything we take ski touring. I donít accept that risk is exempt from these calculations, and that if 100% certainty is your standard, then ski touring probably isnít the game for you.
    If you are saying that intelligent backcountry skiers can consider weight:benefit calculations and personally assess risks, leading some to carry airbag packs and some not to, then we are in total agreement. I thought your initial comment implied only clueless Euros and dads on vacation would ever carry such a thing.

    On the whole weight thing, my pack is always heavy as shit. I bring a lot of water, but I drink it all. The bladder on back to melt snow thing is intriguing. I need to bring less food because I never eat it all.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTG4 View Post
    If you are saying that intelligent backcountry skiers can consider weight:benefit calculations and personally assess risks, leading some to carry airbag packs and some not to, then we are in total agreement. I thought your initial comment implied only clueless Euros and dads on vacation would ever carry such a thing.

    On the whole weight thing, my pack is always heavy as shit. I bring a lot of water, but I drink it all. The bladder on back to melt snow thing is intriguing. I need to bring less food because I never eat it all.
    Then we agree. I hydrate before skiing, drink from creeks (if accessible), pace myself so as to not sweat, and only carry a 1 litre Nalgene bottle (also good for fishing for water down deep holes) for a full day of touring. Sometimes I end the day thirsty, but that just makes the first beer so much more satisfying.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootenayskier View Post
    I hydrate before skiing.....
    I need to do that. Iím terrible about hydration and fuel. Heck, I DEhydrate the night before skiing with too much hot tub time and booze when Iím traveling....

  10. #60
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    First rule of endurance pursuits is that your body carries water better than any vessel. Forego the alcohol and caffeine for 24 hours and you won't have to stop to pee twelve times on the skintrack.

    I like the article, but although I don't know Teague I know his type. He has a valid point that we either tend to embrace the light is right philosophy or write it off.

    The thing I would differ about, is that I don't ski with a pack of hyenas every outing. This article reads like a manifesto of how to fit in with your local hard charging ski rando road cycling scene. Sure, it's hard to tuck into the paceline with hairy legs, most of us get that. Should be followed up with an article about how real friends are more valuable than Strava times. Whomever said it's all training weight, I salute you. Geek out for events or your weekly wolf pack yo yo trip, but don't be the guy that rides off every time the Jong in the back catches up to the rest spot.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowsparkco View Post
    real friends are more valuable than Strava times
    Preposterous. Live and die by the Strava times. There's no other way to measure one's self worth.

    It always blows my mind when I accidentally leave the watch on driving away from the trailhead, it posts as a KOM for a road segment with a completely ridiculous time, and a least 5 fucking randos report the time and file a complaint with Strava cause there's some cheating going on. Who can possibly give that much of a shit? The hamsters in the Wasatch wheel, that's who.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boissal View Post
    Preposterous. Live and die by the Strava times. There's no other way to measure one's self worth.

    It always blows my mind when I accidentally leave the watch on driving away from the trailhead, it posts as a KOM for a road segment with a completely ridiculous time, and a least 5 fucking randos report the time and file a complaint with Strava cause there's some cheating going on. Who can possibly give that much of a shit? The hamsters in the Wasatch wheel, that's who.
    Iíve done that and been called out. I told them I was on an ebike and left it.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowsparkco View Post
    First rule..

    don't be the guy that rides off every time the Jong in the back catches up to the rest spot.
    If safety is a concern, make it a habit not to ski with Jongs.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mofro261 View Post
    If safety is a concern, make it a habit not to ski with Jongs.
    Gotta fight the outdoor elite clique mentality...

    Everyone has to learn from someone, go out and mentor a Jong rather than chastise him for skinning too slowly.

    Safety is always a concern, but hopefully some of us have been around long enough to be both safe and welcoming. More heuristic traps with more knowledgeable partners, sometimes a one chief system is safer. The Jong might not be able to help me, but at least he might try. The guy with half a toothbrush in his pack is going to freeze to death before you fix a broken binding. Every man for himself builds independent strong skiers, but expeditions built on trust build community which I find to be in shorter supply nearly every damn day.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by plugboots View Post
    Iíve done that and been called out. I told them I was on an ebike and left it.
    Money.

    Full disclosure I don't even have a Strava account and consider quitting Facebook daily.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowsparkco View Post
    Gotta fight the outdoor elite clique mentality...

    Everyone has to learn from someone, go out and mentor a Jong rather than chastise him for skinning too slowly.

    Safety is always a concern, but hopefully some of us have been around long enough to be both safe and welcoming. More heuristic traps with more knowledgeable partners, sometimes a one chief system is safer. The Jong might not be able to help me, but at least he might try. The guy with half a toothbrush in his pack is going to freeze to death before you fix a broken binding. Every man for himself builds independent strong skiers, but expeditions built on trust build community which I find to be in shorter supply nearly every damn day.
    so we can direct the JONGS to you for daycare, got it. Speed on the up doesn't define being a JONG, being clueless does. If you enjoy educating the clueless then more power to you, fight the good fight.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  17. #67
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    Oct 2009
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    You people are weak. In Switzerland we carry shovel, probe and Fondue set

    Click image for larger version. 

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  18. #68
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    Snowshoe with my friends and get to top for pics and rest. He pulls out a stove and makes cocoa. It was the best


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    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we finally made it to Utah.....


    Thanks BCSAR and POWMOW Ski Patrol for rescues

    8, 17, 13, 18, 16, 18, 20, 19, 16

    2018/2019 (24/32)

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mofro261 View Post
    so we can direct the JONGS to you for daycare, got it. Speed on the up doesn't define being a JONG, being clueless does. If you enjoy educating the clueless then more power to you, fight the good fight.
    I've been babysitting JONGs for 20 years, it's called professional guiding. Send 'em my way.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by whyturn View Post
    Snowshoe with my friends and get to top for pics and rest. He pulls out a stove and makes cocoa. It was the best


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    For the ones that carry two liters of water, one liter weighs 2.2 lbs plus the bottle.

    An msr reactor is 16 ounces.

    And it only takes a few minutes to melt snow.



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  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    For the ones that carry two liters of water, one liter weighs 2.2 lbs plus the bottle.

    An msr reactor is 16 ounces.

    And it only takes a few minutes to melt snow.
    Interesting point. Though in terms of balancing interests, if the goal of less weight is more speed, snow melting time takes away from that. And the 2.2lb of water weight goes away once I drink it, but the stove weight is there for the whole tour. But stove weight probably makes sense if you're looking at an all-day effort where lugging enough water for proper hydration would be back-breaking.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cravenmorhead View Post
    Interesting point. Though in terms of balancing interests, if the goal of less weight is more speed, snow melting time takes away from that. And the 2.2lb of water weight goes away once I drink it, but the stove weight is there for the whole tour. But stove weight probably makes sense if you're looking at an all-day effort where lugging enough water for proper hydration would be back-breaking.
    Or if there are more than one people

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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by TG View Post
    something called a cnoc vecto
    Thx, gonna buy one. My summer mtn biking has evolved toward a single water bottle and an MSR mini filter hand pump. 8 hr rides, drinking as much as I want from streams and tarns. No reason not to do this on skis too. Way back in the day I used to do this with large Nalgenes in the E Sierra but I guess I stopped somewhere along the way..

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