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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Bethel, Maine
    Posts
    699
    I can ski around it to a point, but particularly with wide skis, base convexity tends to be an issue. If you only ski soft snow, that may not matter, but if you want to be able to edge effectively—even if it's just on the sketchy, still-frozen traverse to get to the aspect in the sun—having a base that's at least close to flat matters.

    Also, when you try to wax and you can't get the iron to melt wax on the middle of the base at the same time as where it meets the edge, it's probably time for a grind.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    NWCT
    Posts
    2,020
    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsAugustWest View Post
    Everyday I ski at Magic my skis get a stone grind.
    This guy knows whatís up!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    4,758
    Quote Originally Posted by PlayItLeo View Post
    This guy knows whatís up!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I thought August west mainly knew that the life heís livinís no good....

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Missoula, MT
    Posts
    20,635
    It's actually the amazing the difference a stone grind can make.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    19,408
    I would agree ^^ for sure get a stone grind is worth the money especaily if the skis have issues

    but once they were ground the issues were taken care of and my concave bases were flat

    Once the bases were right I didn't see a reason to do a stone grind but YMMV
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Masshole
    Posts
    619
    I try to get them done once a year, generally when my edges are shot. I do maintain with stone, files, and wax but sometimes that's not enough.

    What's the "go to" pattern for coldish temps and natural snow?

    Asking anyone except the actual tech generally results in head scratching.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    State of Jefferson
    Posts
    395
    I played around a lot with the patterns with the Wintersteiger at my old job, couldn't tell any difference on snow. I think it's more a race thing where a tiny bit less wax gives you an advantage.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Bethel, Maine
    Posts
    699
    Quote Originally Posted by lowsparkco View Post
    I played around a lot with the patterns with the Wintersteiger at my old job, couldn't tell any difference on snow. I think it's more a race thing where a tiny bit less wax gives you an advantage.
    The son of a guy I coach with just did a school science project comparing grinds and got repeatable, measurable differences. Whether the fastest grind on his test would also be the fastest on different snow is admittedly unknown. Last I heard, they were hoping to retest in different snow conditions, but there's a bit of a scheduling challenge involved.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using TGR Forums mobile app

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    4,758
    But itís all relative. Fuck me if Iím wrong, but snow, as an abrasive material, will wear out a pattern/structure and the ďopeningsĒ in a sintered base that any stone grind will create. Yes/no? And it behooves one to have a refreshed grind/structure to a sintered base for improved glide more frequently than once a year if a skier is putting more than 100k of vertical ft on their boards. Yes/no?

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    tetons
    Posts
    6,947
    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    But it’s all relative. Fuck me if I’m wrong, but snow, as an abrasive material, will wear out a pattern/structure and the “openings” in a sintered base that any stone grind will create. Yes/no? And it behooves one to have a refreshed grind/structure to a sintered base for improved glide more frequently than once a year if a skier is putting more than 100k of vertical ft on their boards. Yes/no?
    I think so, but I'm not a dentist
    I feel like it "refreshes" the ski, amirite?
    skid luxury

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    State of Jefferson
    Posts
    395
    I think we need a race coach magi to get it perfect, but my understanding is that different structure patterns hold different waxes better/worse. Generally, if you can see some structure and the bases are flat, edges are sharp, and you have some wax on the ski you're in front of the curve. I know a lot of rippers that never wax their boards, but you can tell when the lighter skier passes them in a traverse. I always have liked faster skis as they seem more predictable. And, well, they're faster.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,779
    Structure is not about 'holding' wax. Structure is for controlling suction created by water.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    DownEast
    Posts
    597
    ^^^ Correct, structure is for channeling water away/off the ski base to prevent suction. When we ski, we are melting the snow with friction and gliding on a thin film of water. A fresh stone grind re-establishes the structure or "gutters" for channeling water. But, the stone grind cutting process also creates "hairs" of plastic base material that clog the gutters... so for the fastest possible skis, the hairs must be removed by hand with directional application of a scotchbrite pad, bronze brush, or silicone carbide paper (or all three in magical secret combination) which cuts in one direction to clean the hairs out of the gutters in the structure. This only makes a practical difference when racing at the highest levels and is a black art practiced down a rabbit hole. For every athlete on the podium, there is a ski tech who didn't sleep the night before. And once you manage to get a pair of speed skis "fast" you'd NEVER stone grind them again and repeat all the handwork it took to get them there. You limit their runs and preserve and pass them around to the athlete with the best chance of winning that day. Now I just enjoy a day on the mountain and don't sweat the tune, unless it is incredibly railed or incredibly dull. Each fixed by a standard shop full tune with stone grind.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,167
    all new skis deserve a nice structure right off the bat (there are some exceptions that have good patterns out of the factory though) as the regular old basic linear pattern is garbage.

    Super fine broken/cross linear for mid winter, less fine cross linear for spring.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Missoula, MT
    Posts
    20,635
    Can super fine stone grinds "wear out" more easily?
    The one put on some of my skis (skinny diagonal stripes. Fairly light/fine) is probably finer than it needs to be for the type of snow around here normally (Missoula area, mostly Snowbowl), especially this year (been warm), but it's hard to tell how much of the stripy pattern is left on bright green bases. It never really stood out like it would on black.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    State of Jefferson
    Posts
    395
    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    Structure is not about 'holding' wax. Structure is for controlling suction created by water.
    Thanks for the correction. I knew there was something I was forgetting. So, theoretically you would change it depending on how wet/warm the snow is at race time?

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    DownEast
    Posts
    597
    Quote Originally Posted by lowsparkco View Post
    Thanks for the correction. I knew there was something I was forgetting. So, theoretically you would change it depending on how wet/warm the snow is at race time?
    Yes, in theory. In practice, each athlete has a warm and a cold speed ski with specific grinds and prep depending on temperature. There is also the old school "riller bar" used to manually cut more structure into the base if needed immediately.

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