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Thread: Stone Grinds. Do you do it?
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02-19-2020, 09:13 PM #26Registered User
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I can ski around it to a point, but particularly with wide skis, base convexity tends to be an issue. If you only ski soft snow, that may not matter, but if you want to be able to edge effectively—even if it's just on the sketchy, still-frozen traverse to get to the aspect in the sun—having a base that's at least close to flat matters.
Also, when you try to wax and you can't get the iron to melt wax on the middle of the base at the same time as where it meets the edge, it's probably time for a grind.
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02-19-2020, 09:24 PM #27
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02-20-2020, 08:15 PM #28
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02-20-2020, 08:58 PM #29
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02-20-2020, 09:48 PM #30Registered User
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I would agree ^^ for sure get a stone grind is worth the money especaily if the skis have issues
but once they were ground the issues were taken care of and my concave bases were flat
Once the bases were right I didn't see a reason to do a stone grind but YMMVLee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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02-21-2020, 12:53 PM #31
I try to get them done once a year, generally when my edges are shot. I do maintain with stone, files, and wax but sometimes that's not enough.
What's the "go to" pattern for coldish temps and natural snow?
Asking anyone except the actual tech generally results in head scratching.
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02-21-2020, 06:43 PM #32
I played around a lot with the patterns with the Wintersteiger at my old job, couldn't tell any difference on snow. I think it's more a race thing where a tiny bit less wax gives you an advantage.
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02-21-2020, 07:19 PM #33Registered User
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The son of a guy I coach with just did a school science project comparing grinds and got repeatable, measurable differences. Whether the fastest grind on his test would also be the fastest on different snow is admittedly unknown. Last I heard, they were hoping to retest in different snow conditions, but there's a bit of a scheduling challenge involved.
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02-21-2020, 07:29 PM #34
But it’s all relative. Fuck me if I’m wrong, but snow, as an abrasive material, will wear out a pattern/structure and the “openings” in a sintered base that any stone grind will create. Yes/no? And it behooves one to have a refreshed grind/structure to a sintered base for improved glide more frequently than once a year if a skier is putting more than 100k of vertical ft on their boards. Yes/no?
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02-21-2020, 07:35 PM #35
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02-22-2020, 05:08 AM #36
I think we need a race coach magi to get it perfect, but my understanding is that different structure patterns hold different waxes better/worse. Generally, if you can see some structure and the bases are flat, edges are sharp, and you have some wax on the ski you're in front of the curve. I know a lot of rippers that never wax their boards, but you can tell when the lighter skier passes them in a traverse. I always have liked faster skis as they seem more predictable. And, well, they're faster.
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02-22-2020, 07:32 AM #37
Structure is not about 'holding' wax. Structure is for controlling suction created by water.
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02-22-2020, 09:44 AM #38
^^^ Correct, structure is for channeling water away/off the ski base to prevent suction. When we ski, we are melting the snow with friction and gliding on a thin film of water. A fresh stone grind re-establishes the structure or "gutters" for channeling water. But, the stone grind cutting process also creates "hairs" of plastic base material that clog the gutters... so for the fastest possible skis, the hairs must be removed by hand with directional application of a scotchbrite pad, bronze brush, or silicone carbide paper (or all three in magical secret combination) which cuts in one direction to clean the hairs out of the gutters in the structure. This only makes a practical difference when racing at the highest levels and is a black art practiced down a rabbit hole. For every athlete on the podium, there is a ski tech who didn't sleep the night before. And once you manage to get a pair of speed skis "fast" you'd NEVER stone grind them again and repeat all the handwork it took to get them there. You limit their runs and preserve and pass them around to the athlete with the best chance of winning that day. Now I just enjoy a day on the mountain and don't sweat the tune, unless it is incredibly railed or incredibly dull. Each fixed by a standard shop full tune with stone grind.
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02-22-2020, 01:21 PM #39
all new skis deserve a nice structure right off the bat (there are some exceptions that have good patterns out of the factory though) as the regular old basic linear pattern is garbage.
Super fine broken/cross linear for mid winter, less fine cross linear for spring.
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02-22-2020, 03:39 PM #40
Can super fine stone grinds "wear out" more easily?
The one put on some of my skis (skinny diagonal stripes. Fairly light/fine) is probably finer than it needs to be for the type of snow around here normally (Missoula area, mostly Snowbowl), especially this year (been warm), but it's hard to tell how much of the stripy pattern is left on bright green bases. It never really stood out like it would on black.
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02-22-2020, 10:44 PM #41
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02-23-2020, 09:13 AM #42
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