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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by powdork View Post
    absolutely incorrect. how is a 58 year old recreational skier supposed to know what is happening when he sees (if he sees) the chair coming at him with no seat? And more importantly, how is he as a guest supposed to be responsible for knowing what to do in the maybe one second after realizing vail failed to do their duty. Also the guest had no idea the level of danger he was facing.
    I didn't say the guest was at fault, but maybe 10% responsibility falls on the guest for being an idiot to sit in a chair with no seat. If one doesn't look at where they're sitting down...This is what happens when lift ops are shitty. Vail will get fuct.

    On a fixed chair, it would be different, on a detachable it would be easy for even a moron to move to the side if they're paying attention even a little

  2. #102
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    why is noone blaming arc teryx? After all, it was the jacket that killed him.
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2skier112 View Post
    On a fixed chair, it would be different, on a detachable it would be easy for even a moron to move to the side if they're paying attention even a little
    What if the deceased was an expert skier that was distracted from checking the chair as it came around the bullwheel by a small child. Once skier noticed the seat was not positioned correctly there was no where to move because they were flanked by others.

    Point being, you're assuming a lot of shit here. The sole responsibility is on the lift attendant, the lifty supervisor, and the mountain. Period.

  4. #104
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    ^^^ yeah, this one isn't even going to court.

  5. #105
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    yup, with this shit happening previously, there is a fuckin’ slam dunk lawsuit coming....



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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    I'd say the most important thing would be to devise a system that keeps the seat down. It shouldn't be that difficult to come up with something that mechanically connects the seat to the frame
    got to be a secondary market for wives and girlfriends too im sure...

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiCol View Post
    got to be a secondary market for wives and girlfriends too im sure...
    See? Perfect money making op!

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLYBOYMATTHEW View Post
    My CPR refresher for OEC last fall included rescue breathing. 30 compressions, 2 breaths.
    Since it was oec think drowning as well as snow immersion. But I believe the courses they teach the average civilian skip the breathing. I'll ask my DIL, she teaches CPR.

    Quote Originally Posted by jerlane View Post
    It’s been a long time since I took ACLS, but from what I recall, the only shockable rhythms are v-fib and v-tach. Both of which an AED will shock. Flatline is not a shockable rhythm contrary to what tv will show you.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Yep

    Quote Originally Posted by k2skier112 View Post
    I didn't say the guest was at fault, but maybe 10% responsibility falls on the guest for being an idiot to sit in a chair with no seat. If one doesn't look at where they're sitting down...This is what happens when lift ops are shitty. Vail will get fuct.

    On a fixed chair, it would be different, on a detachable it would be easy for even a moron to move to the side if they're paying attention even a little
    When I'm getting on a chair I'm too busy watching for people's poles poking me in the face, backpacks hitting me in the head, bars being slammed down before I've had a chance to sit, and people standing on my skis to check to see if the seat is down.

    BTW, if you're snow plowing getting on or off a crowded chair you're an idiot.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiJ View Post
    There is lots of Responsibility to go around on this - and unfortunately(,) it cost this guy his life.

    Vail is a liable party ; I would not want to be the lifty responsible for seeing that the chairs were properly loaded ; the skier himself ( Why would you try to stay on a detachable With the seat Up (!) ... Only If you expect to ride to the Top... I would do Everything I could to Get OFF that chair ! !!

    I do see how one might Sit not realizing the seat was Up... But Get Off. ! !! )

    . . . the next people in line... Did they call out a warning (?) or called for the chair to be STOP-ped... (?)


    Accidents happen -- but stuff like this reaffirms my belief that our technology has surpassed our intelligence.


    ( I'm) Sorry for the rant. tj

    guys...

    it is kind of heartbreaking to me to see this degenerate to a matter of Blame --

    as I tried to state earlier ( above ), there is plenty to go around...

    in the midwest, now even the best hills want a Liability Waiver signed with the purchase of a lift ticket
    ( it is going to be the end of my skiing at those businesses ) ;


    There is some discussion in the previous posts about matters of Safety , and for me, it relates back to another thread about collisions -

    and my claim : Safety is everyone's responsibility.


    the recent photos from Vail remind me of lift lines in the late 1970s :
    I remember waiting More than thirty minutes at indianhead on President's Weekend in 1978 --
    two hours (?) forget that --

    I digress --
    Of course the resort has liability - but Moreover, the resort is responsible for a Safe operation
    ( it is my opinion (that) running chairs - especially detatchable 'high-speed' chairs without a loading attendant is not responsible

    ( BSB midweek, in February, I don't know, I wasn't there. but I have seen it. ) )

    let's face it : being a lifty is a pretty thankless job. ... I have worked with some excellent lift attendants ( 'lifties' ) --
    Some of them, Just love people.

    in my opinion, a guy that would not FIGHT to get OFF a detatchable chair, is not familiar with the liftS or the terrain
    ( I think it would take a superhuman effort to ride the frame of the chair to the top at BSB )

    in My experience and my Opinion, one has More than A second ( -few but not many - ) to attempt ESCAPE - and that would include screaming for the lift to STOP.


    SAFETY. it is everyone's responsibility ! !!

    it is probably time for me to take up knitting - or crochet ( a hook and Not two needles )

    I feel bad for everyone involved Except the resort .

    Safety is everyone's responsibility.


    Thanks to anyone who read through my second rant -

    I'm done. tj
    " ... I will do anything to go Skiing ... There Is no pride ... " (Miriam , 2005-2006 epic)

    Dec21, 2016. LittleBigLost :
    " I think about it everyday. It is my reminder to live life to the fullest. I get up early, go to bed late, 'cuz I got shit to do. Like I said, I'm 61. Not going to wait till I'm 81 to do stuff, ...

    Get out there and do stuff!

    Enjoy life to the fullest!!

    See you on the slopes! "

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiJ View Post
    my training is an AED will shock an arrhythmic heart - it will not shock a stopped heart --
    A stopped heart needs an electric Start.

    I would be Glad to be wrong - but

    I would not expect an AED to trigger a Stopped heart.

    (tj)
    Sorry, but no.

    A heart that is asystolic (i.e. there is no electrical activity in it) does not need a shock and will not benefit from one. It's generally quite rare to resuscitate someone from asystole.

    A heart that is in pulseless electrical activity (i.e. there is an organized electrical rhythm but there is no pulse) needs CPR and an electric shock will be of no benefit.

    Despite what TV has trained people to believe, the only time to shock a patient is if they are having an arrhythmia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huskydoc View Post
    This is correct. PEA arrest, or "flatline" is not a shockable rhythm. Only high-quality CPR, meds (epi/amio/etc) and crossed fingers will save you in PEA.

    Also, despite what the medical dramas would have you believe hospitals no longer have "paddles", our defibrillators aren't entirely dissimilar to AED's Joe schmo might use, the main difference being a built in monitor and greater ability to adjust energy delivered and in what manner.
    PEA and asystole are not the same thing.

  11. #111
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    I'm impressed that so many dentists know so much about cardiac physiology!

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    I'm impressed that so many dentists know so much about cardiac physiology!
    Poor dental hygiene leads to heart disease you know

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    I'm impressed that so many dentists know so much about cardiac physiology!


    Quote Originally Posted by 4matic View Post
    Poor dental hygiene leads to heart disease you know
    the knowledge around here is stunning

    having spent a lifetime around tourists expecting them to be fully aware of there surroundings at all times is silly

    Personally I'd expect the lift to be in order and ready to load sure like everyone else I can bore you w my lift stories between competence and incompetence

    vail resorts is understaffed as most businesses in eagle and summit the only requirement is to have a heart beat and show up asking for anything more and the employee will walk because another job will be available within an hour I can only guess that everyone on duty was asleep at the wheel which is pretty standard it's pretty fucked that some innocent guy having the time of his life escaping his every day bullshit was probably so happy by being in the moment and location he was that he had no clue what was about to happen to him.

    hopefully a really good lawyer will get their hands on the employee manual and rip Vail a new one because some incompetent kid who got hammered the night before and didn't give two fucks about what he was doing was jerking off in the lift shack and if you think I'm making that up I'm not

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by m2711c View Post
    nah, you euros don’t go for that one death at a time thing... why bother when you can rip a whole chairload off at one time with your winch cat cable?

    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/schwyz-...dent-/45544070

    Attachment 316139
    Be careful of your “USA!” Cockiness. In late 2015 two chairs on two different detachable quads @ Mt Bachelor fell off the haul rope when the grip failed to close. Fortunately nobody was on or underneath those chairs at the time. After that I always check the connection as soon as we leave the loading station

    Of course after the 2009 pantsing of the guy at Vail, I always check that the bench is down before my chair comes around the wheel. Never had to pull the bench down - yet.
    Check Out Ullr's Mobile Avalanche Safety Tools for iOS and Android
    www.ullrlabs.com

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by m2711c View Post
    yup, with this shit happening previously, there is a fuckin’ slam dunk lawsuit coming....



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    Probably the funniest unfunny thing I've ever seen. Poor guy,

  16. #116
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    Holy Shit, skier death on Vail chairlift

    ^^^I saw that firsthand. It was jaw dropping for sure.

    Can not believe what just happened.

    Vail is going to be FUBAR.

  17. #117
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    .
    will the victim's toxicology have any relevance?

    .
    "we all do dumb shit when we're fucked up" mike tyson

  18. #118
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    Feb 2008
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    497
    Quote Originally Posted by 4matic View Post
    Laser light is easily blocked. Maybe a wireless switch like a dryer door.
    OK, here's my take. The seats need to be spring loaded to flip down. When flipped up for cleaning or maintenance, there's a switch to lock them in the up position. When the seats go around the bullwheel, there's a stationary failsafe bar that triggers the switch as each chair goes by to make sure they're in the down position when they get to the loading point.

    PM me for the address to send my royalty checks.

    Edited to add: also, how about an emergency stop that the people who are next in line can access? With appropriate draconian penalties for abuse, of course. The people who are about to load the chair are almost guaranteed to be watching, unlike the lift ops.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    I'd say the most important thing would be to devise a system that keeps the seat down. It shouldn't be that difficult to come up with something that mechanically connects the seat to the frame that can be connected in the time the chair is passing through the bottom station. Some kind of sensor to ensure the seat is down would be the secondary system.
    idk that ski area.. but more than one place in the east coast , purposefully raises seats . Weather related , so people don't sit on wet icy seats. Maybe so the wind cant lift the chairs while in motion too?
    ski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz

  20. #120
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    vail resorts is understaffed as most businesses in eagle and summit the only requirement is to have a heart beat and show up asking for anything more and the employee will walk because another job will be available within an hour I can only guess that everyone on duty was asleep at the wheel which is pretty standard it's pretty fucked that some innocent guy having the time of his life escaping his every day bullshit was probably so happy by being in the moment and location he was that he had no clue what was about to happen to him.

    hopefully a really good lawyer will get their hands on the employee manual and rip Vail a new one because some incompetent kid who got hammered the night before and didn't give two fucks about what he was doing was jerking off in the lift shack and if you think I'm making that up I'm not[/QUOTE]

    +1 … the work ethic of the younger generation too... I-phone deuchbags texting all day.. Clearly a lack of training/or total neglect... maybe a combo?
    ski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz

  21. #121
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    The estate's lawyers are going to hire all types of expert witnesses to prefer opinions. I'm interested to find out what the industry standard is. There have to be similar chairs in use throughout the world. Was Vail missing something? Was it on notice of a potential dangers associated with this chair? Did it act as a reasonable [entity] would under the circumstances then and there existing?
    I think that the decedent was an investment banker at Credit Suisse. I have no doubt that just as soon as he is put to rest claims and lawsuits will be filed. There is no way to keep this private, and many interesting tidbits will become available to those who want to follow along.
    “A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.”
    ― Milton Friedman

  22. #122
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    the letter of love from Vail ,piece needs to be dropped from TgR temporarily out of respect for the dead skier.
    ski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan_pdx View Post
    OK, here's my take. The seats need to be spring loaded to flip down.

    PM me for the address to send my royalty checks.
    .
    if i remember correctly , they were spring loaded to flip up and down...those suckers were heavy....

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfred View Post
    the knowledge around here is stunning

    having spent a lifetime around tourists expecting them to be fully aware of there surroundings at all times is silly

    Personally I'd expect the lift to be in order and ready to load sure like everyone else I can bore you w my lift stories between competence and incompetence

    vail resorts is understaffed as most businesses in eagle and summit the only requirement is to have a heart beat and show up asking for anything more and the employee will walk because another job will be available within an hour I can only guess that everyone on duty was asleep at the wheel which is pretty standard it's pretty fucked that some innocent guy having the time of his life escaping his every day bullshit was probably so happy by being in the moment and location he was that he had no clue what was about to happen to him.

    hopefully a really good lawyer will get their hands on the employee manual and rip Vail a new one because some incompetent kid who got hammered the night before and didn't give two fucks about what he was doing was jerking off in the lift shack and if you think I'm making that up I'm not
    Do they still do drug tests?

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan_pdx View Post
    Edited to add: also, how about an emergency stop that the people who are next in line can access?
    Hilarity will ensue.
    And I guess that I just don't know

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