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  1. #51
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    Oct 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    I think heavy magnets would solve this problem for the most part. Yes, it would take a bit more effort for the lifty flipping seats at the end of the night, but could be strong enough to not be flipped by the wind. Also, no mechanical parts/latches to fail. How this hasn't been a thing for 30 years already is beyond me.
    Powerful magnets in the vicinity of skis, poles, bindings, and whatever a random guest has on their person or in their backpack.

    What could go wrong?

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiJ View Post
    Four minutes is plenty long to stop the heart of a 58yr old male --

    Without electricity - a defibrillator, Not an AED - he's done.


    tj
    No.
    I wonít cunt up this thread with the amount of data available about hypoxia and survival rates but do some googling on ncbi studies, the downtime someone can go without oxygen will surprise you.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  3. #53
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    Nov 2007
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    7630'
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    Quote Originally Posted by phallic-menace View Post
    Vail has been looking for liftys for sometime and have been understaffed all season to my knowledge
    perhaps they should have been perusing the c-suite in broomfield for candidates

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedic84 View Post
    No.
    I won’t cunt up this thread with the amount of data available about hypoxia and survival rates but do some googling on ncbi studies, the downtime someone can go without oxygen will surprise you.
    Four minutes is absolutely a reasonable fatal hypoxia time in a person who is actively struggling (i.e. consuming their oxygen stores at a high rate), in pain, and terror. Four minutes is also a totally reasonable amount of time for a healthy sedate(d) adult to go without oxygen and have nothing bad happen.

    Context is key. Especially since we know nothing about the victim's general health.

  5. #55
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    Feb 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptavv View Post
    Context is key. Especially since we know nothing about the victim's general health.
    Pure hearsay, but a very important point.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/vail/commen..._resort_today/

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    On the field
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    709
    What is the proper amount of time before we have to wait for the bunny jokes to start

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    Your couch?
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    211
    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    What does this mean, exactly? Like doggy style?
    Its more or less the same as a lifty position just more purring

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
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    NY
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    Terrible story. I worked as a liftie a long time ago. Without more details I donít think I can add anything substantive to the discussion but I do remember the permanent staff and management spending a lot of time talking about just this kind of thing (they called them hangers). They expected it to happen as skiers got off the lift though, not while loading.

  9. #59
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    May 2008
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    On a genuine ol' fashioned authentic steam powered aereoplane
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptavv View Post
    Powerful magnets in the vicinity of skis, poles, bindings, and whatever a random guest has on their person or in their backpack.

    What could go wrong?
    Two or three quarter sized neodymium magnets across the lip of the chair frame where the pad rests. Would have no affect on anyones gear.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Methow Valley
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    892
    Until someone awkwardly leans down to unbuckle their boots and zaps their pacemaker.

    That said it shouldn't be rocket surgery to make a secure latch that doesnt easily break.

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    Two or three quarter sized neodymium magnets across the lip of the chair frame where the pad rests. Would have no affect on anyones gear.
    Címon man, nobody even knows how magnets really work, and you want to trust them on a chair lift?


    I think not.


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  12. #62
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    Jan 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by powdork View Post
    just want to be clear that was the 2009 incident. I haven't seen anything regarding times for this one. In the Vail Daily article there is only mention of CPR given to him at the base of the chair. And it sounds like a hanging. Not sure how long that takes but I would think three to four minutes?
    thanks for the correction. Obviously I wasn't reading carefully.

    question is--was it truly asphyxia or carotid occlusion. You can tolerate not breathing for quite a while if your lungs are full of oxygenated air but if no blood is getting to your brain 4 minutes or less is the limit. BTW--worth mentioning that modern CPR does not include rescue breathing (unless they've recently changed it again) but this does not apply to arrest due to asphyxia--avy's, tree wells, etc.

  13. #63
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    May 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK47bp View Post
    C’mon man, nobody even knows how magnets really work, and you want to trust them on a chair lift?


    I think not.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    You have a good point there.

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Ventura Highway in the Sunshine
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    ...or you can just leave the seats down and deal with the snow on them, which is what I am most familiar with at our little hill called Mammoth.

    Seen plenty of unobservent lifties in my time in the mountains. Bottomline is I dont count on an underpaid stoned lift to make my chair ride safe. But, most of us a reasonably experienced with shitty loading/unloading operations, and I don't expect the average gaper to be able to deal with it unassisted, hence the liability of Vail in this situation.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  15. #65
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    Jul 2018
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    MSP
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    thanks for the correction. Obviously I wasn't reading carefully.

    question is--was it truly asphyxia or carotid occlusion. You can tolerate not breathing for quite a while if your lungs are full of oxygenated air but if no blood is getting to your brain 4 minutes or less is the limit. BTW--worth mentioning that modern CPR does not include rescue breathing (unless they've recently changed it again) but this does not apply to arrest due to asphyxia--avy's, tree wells, etc.
    My CPR refresher for OEC last fall included rescue breathing. 30 compressions, 2 breaths.

  16. #66
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    Mar 2017
    Location
    Missoula DMV
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    Shit even a place like snowbowl has at least 2 lifties running ops at the base, bumping chairs and being ready to hit the switch when needed. Chairs are flipped up at the end of the day too AFAIK. So you feel pretty safe riding the riblets.

    Of course this is when chairs aren't falling off the cable or getting eaten by bullwheels, so it's a wash.

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    946
    Quote Originally Posted by phallic-menace View Post
    Can you rephrase? A defibrillator is a defibrillator is it not? Automoted External Defibrilator.
    my training is an AED will shock an arrhythmic heart - it will not shock a stopped heart --
    A stopped heart needs an electric Start.

    I would be Glad to be wrong - but

    I would not expect an AED to trigger a Stopped heart.

    (tj)

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    946
    medic --

    two issues :
    asphyxia and Unsuccessful resuscitation --

    I guarantee you
    this guy does not care how long he Should have been able to survive without ( breathing / oxygen ) --

    If / When his heart stopped , the chances of being able to resuscitate him became very, Very low...


    I continue to be ,,, stunned by the success rates for CPR - but CPR does nothing to relieve an arrhythmia or an obstruction ( coronary artery obstruction ) --
    arrhythmias are common and AEDs are miraculous for arrhythmias
    ( Timeliness is Everything ) ;

    similarly,
    CPR for professional rescuers still involves Rescue Breathing - but the critical element of CPR is effective compressions to circulate blood in a body with an ineffective pump --

    given our ( 'urban' ) access to EMS And concern about communicable Disease ( hepatitis is no joke ) "lay" CPR currently focuses on Compressions --


    Death is usually permanent

    ( I do have a friend who survived cardiac arrest.
    He was his village's first revival... )

    Life is fragile ;
    try to not make fatal mistakes .


    (tj)

  19. #69
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    Oct 2019
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    77
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    Pretty sad shit. I understand why the chairs fold up for snow etc, but they need just a little clip, or magnets or something to keep them from flipping up on windy days while the chair is running.

    Or a lifty who`s not half baked on gummys and chocolates paying attention.

  20. #70
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    Mar 2006
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    16,027
    Chair could have been partially down and restricted by snow and ice so when he loaded the chair got pushed up at the same time.

  21. #71
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    Apr 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2skier112 View Post
    ^yup

    If one sits down on a detachable chair with the seat up, some of the blame falls on guest
    absolutely incorrect. how is a 58 year old recreational skier supposed to know what is happening when he sees (if he sees) the chair coming at him with no seat? And more importantly, how is he as a guest supposed to be responsible for knowing what to do in the maybe one second after realizing vail failed to do their duty. Also the guest had no idea the level of danger he was facing.
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    357
    There has been several occasions where I had to flip my own seat down... I think itís little easier for snowboarders because we are standing sideways and have a foot out compare to skiers facing forward with two skis and poles in one hand...

    As I started loading chairs with my toddler, I have realized how valuable competent lifties are vs some kids. I was once that kid who worked as a lifty.

    Condolences to the family and friends.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  23. #73
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    Apr 2007
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    Tahoe
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    I too have flipped the seat down before it got to me. i'm guessing you are also more than a competent skier rather than some bloke from Jersey out at Vail (no offense and he was probably a perfectly good skier).
    But damn, when doing so did you ever consider you were saving your life?
    Vail has to get a failsafe for this. A laser that shoots through the bottom of the chair as a cutoff or some sort of passive protection. Fuck these days there should be an app that tells the lifty chair 167 is coming down with the seat up instead of telling the world i go through a lift line
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    12,750
    A simple webbing cross mesh on the seat frame could easily let snow and wind pass through as well as preventing a customer's final dump while the seat bottom is flipped up.

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    cottonwood heights
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    1,190
    Quote Originally Posted by skiJ View Post
    I have been at detachable lifts were the only attendant was inside ( the control building )
    idk Vail... but i almost got stuck to a lift a the Cantyons by my drawstring... if I didn't plant my skis on exit , and allow the lift to Rip it from my jacket... I would of been taken for a serious ride inverted till it broke free.

    And...no lift worker at that one which grabbed my jacket . Its a slow mid mountain lift /unattended.

    The seat flipping thing seems like ...idk /some heavy shit there emotionally for skiers n riders
    ski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz

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